Leasing a car. My take on it.

[85Carrera]

Wacky Racer said:

I settled on that smart red colour (Soul Red).

WTF? Thought you were a City fan

[DoubleD]

Wacky Racer said:

Fortunately the money wasn't an issue, I have everything I am ever likely to need, and more besides

So why worry about this lease?

[anonymous-user]

If you had invested the 26k over 3 years you would have made 1.5k(2%) in interest as well, if untouched so could have reduced it to 9.5k to run a brand new car over 3 years, seems fair to me.

[Tall_Paul]

Buzypea said:

I’ve both leased and bought 2nd hand cars around the 6k mark for the last 15 years or so. I’ve done the sums and crunched the spreadsheets and while leasing does work out slightly more expensive, it’s only by around £75 a month when factoring in depreciation, repair bills, tyres, MOT’s, Tax etc. for the 2nd hand cars. So the way I see it is I get to drive a brand new car, hassle free, for £75 per month and that suits me fine.

This is the way I'm seeing it, going from my current 13 year old, 96k mile car worth £4-4.5k to a brand new car with 5 years warranty, not MOT for 3 years, taking all resildual values/cash left over into account, will cost me an extra £75pm if I'm doing 15k miles pa. (22mpg average on current car, 51mpg average on new one).

That's with Insurance, VED, fuel, MOT, leasing costs and value of my current car 4 years from now. Not including any repair bills, which on a 96k mile 2006 car, probably aren't far away...

If I went down the 3 year old diesel route for £12k (2.0 octavia TDi 150 for example, just using a car as an example), I'd actually be better off by £30 a month than my current costs, insurance, VED, fuel, MOT, loan costs at £215pm (£8.5k over 4 years) and residual values taken into account. Again though, before taking into account any reairs on an out of warranty car, at the end of the 4 years I'd have a 7 year old, 90k mile diesel, with potential DPF issues...

£75 more a month? Yeah I'm happy with that. Oh and you'd think with those MPG figures I'm going from a supercar to a base spec golf Not quite, performance will only be a second or less 0-60mph. I'll lose AWD which will be missed come winter but at all other times it's just pulling around extra weight/drag.

Edited by Tall_Paul on Wednesday 24th July 23:21

[Wacky Racer]

DoubleD said:

Wacky Racer said:

Fortunately the money wasn't an issue, I have everything I am ever likely to need, and more besides

So why worry about this lease?

I wasn't worrying about it, I love the car and I can drive it (for not a lot), some people spend more than that on fags or booze every day. The point is the total rental costs would be roughly the same as the anticipated deprecation over three years, (give or take), so I couldn't see any advantage in parting with all that cash. If I was going to keep it for ten years buying might make more sense, I would know the car and it's history..

[Wacky Racer]

This is the car in question, Just over a tenner a day, with full warranty and no road tax to find seems OK to me.

[Scootersp]

It's interesting how we are all different, and sometimes how we change our views in life.

To be honest the money no object part means you can just choose the one that's the least hassle and as you say the buying/selling part is taken out of the equation and its hassle free ownership within reason.

Myself in your position I'd have multiple cars, do you not think of having something more sporty to go with it? I think in some respects you are either a new car craving person or not really, if I was given £10k, £20k upwards limits and had to buy only one car with that I'm not sure how high it would have to go before I bought a brand new one, pretty high I think, more so if I could buy more than 1 car.

In my mind lease/buy/hp/personal loan matters little, driving new cars costs more money and if my income stretches to brand new corsa's/fiestas then I'm driving more interesting (to me) or larger etc cars

Handsome car though I think this model, and nice colour.

[zedstar]

OP i totally see your point. My experience was as follows,

2 year deal for new Golf GTi 5 door DSG - £5,100

I came out of an 8 year old Micra 160SR, i'd had that for approx 18 months..

Micra - paid £1500
Tax - £175
New Tyres and wheel alignment (Toyo proxes) £110
New exhaust part'weld - £30
New wheel bearing and fit - £85
Service parts and labour - £120
Replacement key - £50
MOT - £40
Sold - £800

Total cost of ownership in 18 months - £1,310

So allowing for time prob an extra £3500 for 2 years to be in a brand new far better more comfortable rented car.

I do think though one proviso with leasing is that you have to be a bit on the ball and accept the offers for whatever's available on offer. Otherwise I think you can end up spending money you don't need to.

My friend just got an Arteon after a 6 month wait on a great deal, he was ok waiting so long as he had my old Micra (above!) so he was able to be flexible.

[CABC]

isn't the real reason why personal leasing makes financial sense because manufacturers only offer big discounts via leasing?
they don't want to undermine their RRP explicitly, which and cash offer would do.
of course low interest rates help a lot.

[Moonpie21]

If the deal is right I may lease next time.

Everyone is "materialistic" for something; latest smartphone, big house, hot girlfriend/wife/partner, moral high ground, car, happiness... take your pick. usually it is at the sacrifice of something else.

Shiny new things cost money, more financial commitment and less free funds = less freedom.

For me I like cars, my wife takes care of wanting the rest.

We have four at the moment 2 used purchased outright, one we had as a PCP and have paid the balloon and one that is on an active PCP.

Last month the two used ones cost me £3k in bills; rust and suspension bits. Both are low mileage good examples, well looked after, just old cars wear and tear type stuff, wont get rid of either of them.

The PCP (0% at the time) one we brought was the best ever, affordable balloon, we have had it from new, no issues, looked after it and will continue to, will run it until the wife wants a change (cars aren't her thing it will likely fall to bits first), excellent value in my book.

The car we have currently on PCP, love it to bits does everything I need and more, makes me feel special and keeps up with the Jones. In reality the balloon is probably just out of reach and I have it on 4 years. So will I keep it at the end... in all likelihood no. I will replace it with whatever I can work out the best deal to be at the time that gets me into something I will cherish/want to experience for 2/3/4 years. That may even be a short term in an Evezy Tesla Model 3 (maybe there will be something more fun in 2 years) so I can say I have.

As has been said before it is all personal circumstance and preference. But in reality the best option was the PCP we purchased at the end of term. It was cheaper at that point than any equivalent used example, we knew exactly where it had been and how it was looked after and that it wasn't one of these random new car lemons.

Genuinely if I could only have one car and had some kind of forecast fiscal stability I would work out how to save/afford the balloon on a PCP of a brand new car I liked and do it that way.

[hyphen]

Wacky Racer said:

Mazda 6 Auto estate.... 11k "down the drain".

(All figures approximate)

Opinions.....

If you are a 'change cars every 2 years and buy new/nearly new' kinda person. Then yes, leasing will work out vs depreciation.

Obviously.

But if you buy your well maintained, lowish mileage, 5-7 year old car, and stay away from models with known engine blow up type issues, and keep it for a while then leasing can't compare.

Driving a leased poverty spec mazda vs a 5-7 year old larger engine, higher spec vehicle is the real choice for many people, and they choose the latter.

Edited by hyphen on Thursday 25th July 13:29

[Pistonheader101]

hyphen said:

If you are a 'change cars every 2 years and buy new/nearly new' kinda person. Then yes, leasing will work out.

Obviously.

But if you buy your well maintained, lowish mileage, 5-7 year old car, and stay away models with known engine blow up type issues, and keep it for a while then leasing can't compare.

Driving a leased poverty spec mazda vs a 5-7 year old larger engine, higher spec vehicle is the real choice for many people, and they choose the latter.

Technology would have moved on by 5-7 years, and a lot of that high spec stuff from 5-7 years ago will be very much standard kit on even a poverty spec lease

[Funk]

Wacky Racer said:

Prohibiting said:

My opinion.... I'd have gone for the £6k outright option and saved myself £8k. Could put that towards a house project or a cruise ship holiday.

Fortunately the money wasn't an issue, I have everything I am ever likely to need, and more besides, but I accept where you are coming from.

To take it to the extreme, I could have bought a banger for £1000 and run it into the ground.

I bought a '98 E36 328i convertible in 2012 for about a grand. It ran well for four years and cost me around £2k in repairs over those four years. Sold it for pretty much what I paid for it.

I 'upgraded' to a '54 plate E46 330Ci Sport which I paid £5k outright for from a dealer in 2016. In the 14 months I owned it it it cost me £1800 in repairs and was a constant source of stress and frustration; the game of 'what's that new puddle' each morning got very tiring. I got it to a point where it ran OK for 3 months and I sold it on for £3,500 - a total hit of £3,350 in just over a year.

Decided to fk that noise and became a PH cliché - leased a Golf R for 24 months which works out around a tenner a day. To be frank I wouldn't want to go back to running an older car which has a chunk of my money tied up and the possibility of chucking big bills around. Certainly not for a daily driver where all I want is for it to start, run, shuffle gears and stop as required whilst warming my backside in the winter and streaming Spotify over Bluetooth. That it's fun to drive and accelerates like a scalded cat is a happy bonus. If something breaks or needs doing on it it's not my problem, all I have to do is keep it looking pretty for when it goes back.

No hassle, no aggro. I'm sure most of PH will tell me I can't afford the car etc etc but whatever works for someone is their business!

[Moonpie21]

Pistonheader101 said:

Technology would have moved on by 5-7 years, and a lot of that high spec stuff from 5-7 years ago will be very much standard kit on even a poverty spec lease

I'm going to hate myself for saying this, but expensive cars usually cost more to run.

Bit's for a brand new Fiesta ST with all the toys probably a lot more achievable than a similarly priced Maserati or even a cheap/cheapest one. I know which I'd rather own, I know I can afford to buy both... but I would need more than a brave pill to run one of them.

I appreciate that is an extreme comparison

[Shrimpvende]

I've got largely the same view as OP. I previously only bought cars for cash, and currently have 2 cars, one bought second hand approved used for cash, one leased from brand new.

The lease car, Skoda Octavia VRS, is £186 per month (I think the initial payment was around £2k). Total cost of that car over 2 years/16k miles is about £6,200. The only real capital outlay is the upfront payment, it's needed a single service and that's it. The list price is around £29k for that spec, and if I'd have bought new and then traded in after 2 years it would definitely have cost me far far more than the total lease cost.

That ends in Jan, and I'm looking for another lease car to replace it as it's been completely hassle free and it's the car I use for work, so I need it to look fairly smart and start every morning without fail.

I've done well previously buying and selling 5 year old BMW's privately for cash and keeping them for around 12-18 months, only losing around £1k per car in depreciation. But, the private buyer and seller market isn't what it used to be and I don't think I could do that now. I also had to repair them myself, and generally there was always something needing fixing or some expensive preventative maintenance required. Plus spending hours researching known faults and ringing sellers asking 'has xxx been replaced, have you done the swirl flaps' etc etc when on the hunt for something different. I normally bought and sold around the £12-15k mark, so obviously had that cash tied up in the car also.

Now I can afford not to, I really can't be arsed with all that anymore, and love flicking around online, finding a good deal then ordering it on the phone - again all zero hassle. My weekend car was bought for cash, but after losing around £1k per month in depreciation in real terms I think I might even be tempted into the dreaded PCP to replace that so I'm not so exposed again!

[nickfrog]

hyphen said:

Driving a leased poverty spec mazda

What does lease have to do with spec level? You can lease any spec level or engine for that matter. The best deals are often on mid or high spec.

[hyphen]

Pistonheader101 said:

Technology would have moved on by 5-7 years, and a lot of that high spec stuff from 5-7 years ago will be very much standard kit on even a poverty spec lease

Just looked up the Mada 6,and you are indeed correct, a long list.

Although
-a premium audio in a used car can be had that i imagine will be better than the lease basic setup.
- 9.9 seconds 0-60 so still pants though
- cloth seats

I'm sure its a nice place to be, but rather spend the £11k on something.

Edited by hyphen on Thursday 25th July 14:06

[SWoll]

The problem is the vast majority of people are working to a monthly budget.

When you can lease a brand new BMW 530D M-Sport for £400 a month over a 3 year term, and buying a 5 year old example via HP is going to cost you more per month over the same period many people go for the lease.

Of course in 3 years time the used car will have retained value but you don't see any of that benefit until you come to sell, and in the meantime you're running a 5/6/7 year old car hoping nothing goes horribly wrong out of warranty and paying more a month for the privilege.

For many cars are another white good/monthly bill to be paid for. What they don't want is any aggravation or surprise bills.

Edited by SWoll on Thursday 25th July 14:38

[Funk]

Shrimpvende said:

I've got largely the same view as OP. I previously only bought cars for cash, and currently have 2 cars, one bought second hand approved used for cash, one leased from brand new.

The lease car, Skoda Octavia VRS, is £186 per month (I think the initial payment was around £2k). Total cost of that car over 2 years/16k miles is about £6,200. The only real capital outlay is the upfront payment, it's needed a single service and that's it. The list price is around £29k for that spec, and if I'd have bought new and then traded in after 2 years it would definitely have cost me far far more than the total lease cost.

That ends in Jan, and I'm looking for another lease car to replace it as it's been completely hassle free and it's the car I use for work, so I need it to look fairly smart and start every morning without fail.

I've done well previously buying and selling 5 year old BMW's privately for cash and keeping them for around 12-18 months, only losing around £1k per car in depreciation. But, the private buyer and seller market isn't what it used to be and I don't think I could do that now. I also had to repair them myself, and generally there was always something needing fixing or some expensive preventative maintenance required. Plus spending hours researching known faults and ringing sellers asking 'has xxx been replaced, have you done the swirl flaps' etc etc when on the hunt for something different. I normally bought and sold around the £12-15k mark, so obviously had that cash tied up in the car also.

Now I can afford not to, I really can't be arsed with all that anymore, and love flicking around online, finding a good deal then ordering it on the phone - again all zero hassle. My weekend car was bought for cash, but after losing around £1k per month in depreciation in real terms I think I might even be tempted into the dreaded PCP to replace that so I'm not so exposed again!

My bold - an excellent point you make there. Buying and selling used to be quite good fun but there are too many dheads out there now with misaligned expectations and buying/selling privately can be a right nightmare of lies, scams and hassle.

nickfrog said:

hyphen said:

Driving a leased poverty spec mazda

What does lease have to do with spec level? You can lease any spec level or engine for that matter. The best deals are often on mid or high spec.

Agreed - the trick with leasing is to NOT put individual options on yourself. Often going for a higher trim/spec works out far more cost-effective! My Golf R came with 90% of the kit I'd have wanted anyway and the only option it had (it was a stock vehicle) was paint.

If I'd been buying it I'd have looked for Dynamic Chassis and Dynaudio but I can live without those.

Edited by Funk on Thursday 25th July 14:48

[Wacky Racer]

nickfrog said:

hyphen said:

Driving a leased poverty spec mazda

What does lease have to do with spec level? You can lease any spec level or engine for that matter. The best deals are often on mid or high spec.

My car btw, was not "pov spec" (love that expression ), it was top of the range, auto with electric everything, it even came with a steering wheel....