NHS lease scheme
Discussion
Gunslinger18 said:
garpat32 said:
Gunslinger18 said:
Folks,
Can somebody tell me where I can find my VPD number on the wage slips? NHS Scotland btw
You can see it in ESR if you use that. It's not on our payslip at all.Can somebody tell me where I can find my VPD number on the wage slips? NHS Scotland btw
https://my.esr.nhs.uk/
Your trust may not use it, but you can get the vpd from payroll.
GT72 said:
This thread was created because of all the discussion in the "Best Lease Deal" thread on here about the NHS Fleet Solutions deals on the Tesla and E-Tron, so I'm not sure why you keep reverting back to the crap deal you're being offered. Perhaps you should start a crap deals thread if you want to discuss the deal you've been offered.
NHS employees cannot cross shop salary sacrifice schemes, you only access the one you're Trust supplies, it's not an open market. All am pointing out is if some just looks up their salary sacrifice scheme and see the headline figure they can be easily fooled into thinking they are getting the bargain of the century when the reality is for many it is not a bargain, far from it. We are also not talking small amounts of money to be removing from your gross salary, but some one can easily be blinded by headline figures and not realise just actually how much their rental car is costing them.
This is our Trust Model 3 'offer', if you just look at the headline figure it look amazing, almost too good to pass on been £400 cheaper per month than from where like EVEZY. But the gross deduction is the figure that matters, at £1100/month that's more than EVEZY, and its £13K reduction in your gross salary - which even for people high up on the pay scale is a significant reduction for having a rental car.
If your trust has found a way to offer the same car up for £7500 gross reduction that's half the price of any where else, and you want it go for it!
Edited by gangzoom on Tuesday 28th January 18:55
My wife phoned payroll today reference the E-tron deal and asked how much she would lose in pension and the figure given to her was £12.5k.
So add the the £7.5k for the deal on top it’s quite a hit. How many people must go in head first with these deals without even realising the pension implication must be staggering.
So add the the £7.5k for the deal on top it’s quite a hit. How many people must go in head first with these deals without even realising the pension implication must be staggering.
garpat32 said:
Gunslinger18 said:
garpat32 said:
Gunslinger18 said:
Folks,
Can somebody tell me where I can find my VPD number on the wage slips? NHS Scotland btw
You can see it in ESR if you use that. It's not on our payslip at all.Can somebody tell me where I can find my VPD number on the wage slips? NHS Scotland btw
https://my.esr.nhs.uk/
Your trust may not use it, but you can get the vpd from payroll.
Denno B said:
How many people must go in head first with these deals without even realising the pension implication must be staggering.
Am pretty high up on the NHS pay-scale so affability isn't an issue, but every time I look at salary sacrifice it just doesn't make any sense. Some one mentioned earlier its like a lease car scheme but where no credit checks on affordability are made. I don't think that's a bad analogy, I could have 'signed up' to the Tusker deal today with not much more than a few mouse clicks, and with no advice on actual financial cost to me of the 'deal'. Its quite crazy when you really think about it!
Denno B said:
My wife phoned payroll today reference the E-tron deal and asked how much she would lose in pension and the figure given to her was £12.5k.
So add the the £7.5k for the deal on top it’s quite a hit. How many people must go in head first with these deals without even realising the pension implication must be staggering.
£20k and nothing out the other end of it So add the the £7.5k for the deal on top it’s quite a hit. How many people must go in head first with these deals without even realising the pension implication must be staggering.
gangzoom said:
Am pretty high up on the NHS pay-scale so affability isn't an issue, but every time I look at salary sacrifice it just doesn't make any sense. Some one mentioned earlier its like a lease car scheme but where no credit checks on affordability are made. I don't think that's a bad analogy, I could have 'signed up' to the Tusker deal today with not much more than a few mouse clicks, and with no advice on actual financial cost to me of the 'deal'. Its quite crazy when you really think about it!
Totally agree. I've seen some colleagues in a right mess when they've signed up then realised it actually cost them much, much more than they thought. Not everyone has the foresight to think it through fully as the process is not as transparent as it could be.Personally I've decided to cancel my order. Currently looking to privately fund a used leaf. They don't seem to be depreciating much at all so it's currently not a bad place to put your cash, at least for the next 2 years anyway.
gangzoom said:
Bordtea said:
Back to the E-TRON deal - it's being said it's a 70K car. It isn't, as the model showing is the Technik which has a list price of £59k?
Its for the '50' smaller battery version. looks like the 50 range is a bit reduced, but will cover 165 miles in norway in the winter so I guess getting close to 200 miles in the temperate UK weather.
might cruise the dealer tomorrow and have a poke about.... the audi website if hopeless to find any spec/kit information
I am looking to replace an 8 year old rav 4 and am thinking the ev is probably an inevitability. A 2 year lease might be useful to test, and allow a few more options to develop. I am not in the pension scheme anymore so that loss is not relevent to me, so 360 for a new car and free charging when i park at work and an enhanced mileage rate with a lease car (i checked with expenses team they dont care whether ev or otherwise mileage rate is the same)
Edited by sawman on Tuesday 28th January 21:10
Edited by sawman on Tuesday 28th January 21:18
The eTron is a thirsty beast for an EV. 150 miles will be realistic UK winter range in the smaller battery version.
Audi is clearly discounting them to mass buyers where as Kia has a supply issue hence prices are similar despite massive difference in list price.
Nothing wrong with a short rental to dip your feet into the EV world, my first EV was a Nissan Leaf, £200/month, 2 year PCP with no deposit.
A word of warning though, most people who try any EV end up sticking to EVs, which means a new car in a few years time.........
..........I was going to buy a basic spec Tesla Model S after the Leaf for just over £50k, but with a bit of man maths and budget creep ended up spending 40% and got a Model X instead
.
Audi is clearly discounting them to mass buyers where as Kia has a supply issue hence prices are similar despite massive difference in list price.
Nothing wrong with a short rental to dip your feet into the EV world, my first EV was a Nissan Leaf, £200/month, 2 year PCP with no deposit.
A word of warning though, most people who try any EV end up sticking to EVs, which means a new car in a few years time.........
..........I was going to buy a basic spec Tesla Model S after the Leaf for just over £50k, but with a bit of man maths and budget creep ended up spending 40% and got a Model X instead
.gangzoom said:
A word of warning though, most people who try any EV end up sticking to EVs, which means a new car in a few years time.........
Maybe, but my other car is a TVR so I am improving my carbon foot print, although i am still not sure about all the noxious stuff in the batteriesDenno B said:
Gunslinger18 said:
£20k and nothing out the other end of it
You know what they, if it’s too good to be true....That £12,500 lost pension that makes up the £20k quoted above` is actually £2,400 in today's money, so the real cost today is £10,000 for 2 years in an E-Tron, fully insured, maintained and with a charging point installed. However there is a big BUT- to realise that cost today you will need to offset the lost investment, so you'd need to invest that £100 per month over the 2 years and leave it accumulating until retirement. You could do this by setting up an AVS to your NHS pension, or do what we're planning to do which is just increase the contribution to my personal pension. If EV's are as addictive as suggested, we'll likely get another.
As mentioned in the thread earlier, 99% of the leases on the Fleet Solutions website are poor value for money, because of the pension issue - the savings aren't anywhere near good enough to offset the loss. The majority of the EV leases aren't even that good - they just have the 5 special offers which do look good value.
So, if you go into these deals with your eyes open, they do offer value for money in my opinion.
For those that think they're bad value please can you highlight how to drive an E-Tron or Model 3 for 2 years and 20,000 miles fully insured, maintained and with a POD point installed at home for circa £10,000, whether that be lease or purchase (bearing in mind the £10,000 includes offsetting the pension loss)? I just can't get anywhere near that number outside of the scheme, but happy to be proved wrong.
GT72 said:
They also say that a little bit of information can be a dangerous thing.
That £12,500 lost pension that makes up the £20k quoted above` is actually £2,400 in today's money, so the real cost today is £10,000 for 2 years in an E-Tron, fully insured, maintained and with a charging point installed. However there is a big BUT- to realise that cost today you will need to offset the lost investment, so you'd need to invest that £100 per month over the 2 years and leave it accumulating until retirement. You could do this by setting up an AVS to your NHS pension, or do what we're planning to do which is just increase the contribution to my personal pension. If EV's are as addictive as suggested, we'll likely get another.
As mentioned in the thread earlier, 99% of the leases on the Fleet Solutions website are poor value for money, because of the pension issue - the savings aren't anywhere near good enough to offset the loss. The majority of the EV leases aren't even that good - they just have the 5 special offers which do look good value.
So, if you go into these deals with your eyes open, they do offer value for money in my opinion.
For those that think they're bad value please can you highlight how to drive an E-Tron or Model 3 for 2 years and 20,000 miles fully insured, maintained and with a POD point installed at home for circa £10,000, whether that be lease or purchase (bearing in mind the £10,000 includes offsetting the pension loss)? I just can't get anywhere near that number outside of the scheme, but happy to be proved wrong.
When you put it in that context then yes it is still a good deal and far and away cheaper than any other pcp or private lease deal.That £12,500 lost pension that makes up the £20k quoted above` is actually £2,400 in today's money, so the real cost today is £10,000 for 2 years in an E-Tron, fully insured, maintained and with a charging point installed. However there is a big BUT- to realise that cost today you will need to offset the lost investment, so you'd need to invest that £100 per month over the 2 years and leave it accumulating until retirement. You could do this by setting up an AVS to your NHS pension, or do what we're planning to do which is just increase the contribution to my personal pension. If EV's are as addictive as suggested, we'll likely get another.
As mentioned in the thread earlier, 99% of the leases on the Fleet Solutions website are poor value for money, because of the pension issue - the savings aren't anywhere near good enough to offset the loss. The majority of the EV leases aren't even that good - they just have the 5 special offers which do look good value.
So, if you go into these deals with your eyes open, they do offer value for money in my opinion.
For those that think they're bad value please can you highlight how to drive an E-Tron or Model 3 for 2 years and 20,000 miles fully insured, maintained and with a POD point installed at home for circa £10,000, whether that be lease or purchase (bearing in mind the £10,000 includes offsetting the pension loss)? I just can't get anywhere near that number outside of the scheme, but happy to be proved wrong.
Denno B said:
When you put it in that context then yes it is still a good deal and far and away cheaper than any other pcp or private lease deal.
Only IF your trust is offering the cars at a discounted value already.Given all NHS employees can only take up what ever scheme their trust provides its 100% dependent on individual circumstances.
You have to do the calculations for you're specific situation, and don't assume anything based on the headline monthly figure.
On paper our Trust 'offer' on a P Model 3 is only £200/month more than the cheapest offer from another trust. But because of the way NI/40% tax effects the pension effects are massive for what appears to be an not big change in absolute out of pocket monthly cost. £14k pension loss without adjusting for inflation versus £5k, before adding out of pocket differences.
There is no point in looking at the 'best' deals someone else might have access to, you can only look at your own trust scheme.
Edited by gangzoom on Wednesday 29th January 15:47
gangzoom said:
Only IF your trust is offering the cars at a discounted value already.
Given all NHS employees can only take up what ever scheme their trust provides its 100% dependent on individual circumstances.
You have to do the calculations for you're specific situation, and don't assume anything based on the headline monthly figure.
On paper our Trust 'offer' on a P Model 3 is only £200/month more than the cheapest offer from another trust. But because of the way NI/40% tax effects the pension effects are massive. £14k pension loss without adjusting for inflation versus £5k, before adding out of pocket differences.
There is no point in looking at the 'best' deals someone else might have access to, you can only look at your own trust scheme.
My wife’s quote was £315 for a-tron per month through her trust which use fleet solutions.Given all NHS employees can only take up what ever scheme their trust provides its 100% dependent on individual circumstances.
You have to do the calculations for you're specific situation, and don't assume anything based on the headline monthly figure.
On paper our Trust 'offer' on a P Model 3 is only £200/month more than the cheapest offer from another trust. But because of the way NI/40% tax effects the pension effects are massive. £14k pension loss without adjusting for inflation versus £5k, before adding out of pocket differences.
There is no point in looking at the 'best' deals someone else might have access to, you can only look at your own trust scheme.
Denno B said:
My wife’s quote was £315 for a-tron per month through her trust which use fleet solutions.
Take the gross figure per month (not the net figure), x12 for yearly cost. Divide by 54 and its the annual reduction in pension per year. Than multiply by 20 to give you roughly idea of cost of pension drop for 1 year of the lease.You should really also add on the guaranteed 1.5% above inflation annual growth on the pension value. So if 25 years left to retirement x that value by 1.45, very roughly that will give you true idea of pension reduction excluding inflation but including guaranteed pension growth till retirement age.
Remeber than to multiply by number of years the deal runs for. 1-2 years the numbers look OK, but if you end up in the scheme for 5-10 years its a huge drop in the pension pay out.
Edited by gangzoom on Wednesday 29th January 15:59
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