NHS lease scheme

[pavarotti1980]

garpat32 said:

The 1+ and admin fee is an upfront payment is it not? Maintenance is servicing and tyres included.

And insurance will vary depending on the drivers circumstances, but NHS deal is fully comp business with upto 4 named drivers.

So as I said show me a better deal on that car

I just have.

£234 Lease
£35 Insurance
Unlikely to burn through a set of tyres and pads/discs and minimal servicing required. Servicing is from somewhere like Halfords Auto Centres so £139 for a service @ 12 months

Edited by pavarotti1980 on Monday 27th January 12:53

[garpat32]

pavarotti1980 said:

garpat32 said:

The 1+ and admin fee is an upfront payment is it not? Maintenance is servicing and tyres included.

And insurance will vary depending on the drivers circumstances, but NHS deal is fully comp business with upto 4 named drivers.

So as I said show me a better deal on that car

I just have.

£234 Lease
£35 Insurance
Unlikely to burn through a set of tyres and pads/discs and minimal servicing required. Servicing is from somewhere like Halfords Auto Centres so £139 for a service @ 12 months

Edited by pavarotti1980 on Monday 27th January 12:53

You forgot about the £432.14 upfront payment that your link shows.

So you won't ever need a tyre in 20k miles? Puncture etc? Some driving that if you can say that for definite.

As I said insurance varies, depending on the driver?

[pavarotti1980]

garpat32 said:

You forgot about the £432.14 upfront payment that your link shows.

So you won't ever need a tyre in 20k miles? Puncture etc? Some driving that if you can say that for definite.

As I said insurance varies, depending on the driver?

It isnt a 432.14 upfront payment. £198 admin fee and the remaining £234 is the first month payment the same as if you got one on salary sacrifice (minus the admin fee).
Punctures aren't covered by the wear and tear in the agreement. I found out to my cost. They wouldn't cover it so i was charged

Edit: I certainly wouldn't be spending nearly £300 a month hard earned cash and a poverty spec Mini. I spent less than that (inc insurance) on a Seat Leon Cupra for 24 months

Edited by pavarotti1980 on Monday 27th January 13:08

[dave_s13]

pavarotti1980 said:

garpat32 said:

You forgot about the £432.14 upfront payment that your link shows.

So you won't ever need a tyre in 20k miles? Puncture etc? Some driving that if you can say that for definite.

As I said insurance varies, depending on the driver?

It isnt a 432.14 upfront payment. £198 admin fee and the remaining £234 is the first month payment the same as if you got one on salary sacrifice.
Punctures aren't covered by the wear and tear in the agreement. I found out to my cost. They wouldn't cover it so i was charged

Edit: I certainly wouldn't be spending nearly £300 a month hard earned cash and a poverty spec Mini. I spent less than that (inc insurance) on a Seat Leon Cupra for 24 months

When you factor in the pension hit, and the significant reduction in mileage claim rate with a salary sacrafice car. The 2 deals probably even out pretty well.

Give pavarotti a break. He's not wrong really.

[pavarotti1980]

In comparison to Audi eTron

[garpat32]

pavarotti1980 said:

garpat32 said:

You forgot about the £432.14 upfront payment that your link shows.

So you won't ever need a tyre in 20k miles? Puncture etc? Some driving that if you can say that for definite.

As I said insurance varies, depending on the driver?

£198 admin. The remaining £234 is the first month payment the same as if you got one on salary sacrifice.
Punctures aren't covered by the wear and tear in the agreement. I found out to my cost. They wouldn't cover it so i was charged

Must be a new thing as I had a puncture on the HTE and ATS put new tyre on without any fuss?

Either way, it's still included in the deal from NHS, if you are going to compare you have to at least compare like for like!

How about the A3 E-tron they have listed then? Or the Lexus.?

Like I said not all their offers are great, but to say 99% are rubbish is just wrong.

If something doesn't fit you personally, doesn't mean that others can and so benefit.

My cousin is a nurse and only passed her test two years ago, insurance is over 1.5k a year if she leased privately. All she needs is a car to help getting around to do her job and not have to worry.

[garpat32]

dave_s13 said:

pavarotti1980 said:

garpat32 said:

You forgot about the £432.14 upfront payment that your link shows.

So you won't ever need a tyre in 20k miles? Puncture etc? Some driving that if you can say that for definite.

As I said insurance varies, depending on the driver?

It isnt a 432.14 upfront payment. £198 admin fee and the remaining £234 is the first month payment the same as if you got one on salary sacrifice.
Punctures aren't covered by the wear and tear in the agreement. I found out to my cost. They wouldn't cover it so i was charged

Edit: I certainly wouldn't be spending nearly £300 a month hard earned cash and a poverty spec Mini. I spent less than that (inc insurance) on a Seat Leon Cupra for 24 months

When you factor in the pension hit, and the significant reduction in mileage claim rate with a salary sacrafice car. The 2 deals probably even out pretty well.

Give pavarotti a break. He's not wrong really.

What hit to mileage claim rate? We claim same rate regardless if it's lease or private?

[pavarotti1980]

garpat32 said:

Must be a new thing as I had a puncture on the HTE and ATS put new tyre on without any fuss?

Either way, it's still included in the deal from NHS, if you are going to compare you have to at least compare like for like!

How about the A3 E-tron they have listed then? Or the Lexus.?

Like I said not all their offers are great, but to say 99% are rubbish is just wrong.

If something doesn't fit you personally, doesn't mean that others can and so benefit.

My cousin is a nurse and only passed her test two years ago, insurance is over 1.5k a year if she leased privately. All she needs is a car to help getting around to do her job and not have to worry.

I am not fussed what car i have. I dont lease cars with specific models in mind. Find a deal that fits and go with it.

Ok then 99% is maybe a high figure but the majority are poor value. The EV ones are great as you have no BIK and minimal charging costs

[Downward]

pavarotti1980 said:

Chris32345 said:

And people complain NHS didn't give good pensions

Who says that? Not as good as it used to be admittedly

It shouldnt be a race to the bottom of how little in return you get. Effectively a public sector employee is paying for their pension from salary deductions and also the taxation used to provide the schemes.

garpat32 said:

The 40k figure that's uses would be a band 7 and mid to high on the pay progression. So wouldn't be stuck at 40k for ten years anyway.

Also using the E-tron as an example it's figures etc are based on a person on the higher tax threshold, so band8's really.

Anyway, it's a good deal, as are a lot of the cars they offer, I don't get this "99%" of the offers are rubbish bit?

Non EV deals are poor in comparison to what can be had from brokers or finance arms of manufacturers.

My last car was double what i was paying through VWFS if i went with Tusker. Trust has moved to NHS Fleet Solutions now and the cost is even higher again.

the e-Tron deal is brilliant and as a lower rate tax payer is still just over £300 per month

Edited by pavarotti1980 on Monday 27th January 12:03

The 2015 scheme though requires an additional 5 years of contributions compared to if you stay on the 95 scheme.

I’ve checked my 2015 pension and after 4 years it’s worth £1700 per annum. I’ve got 25 years left to retirement.

[dave_s13]

garpat32 said:

What hit to mileage claim rate? We claim same rate regardless if it's lease or private?

NHS mileage rate is 50p/mile when use your own private car. For salary sacrifice car it drops to something like 5p/mile.

[garpat32]

dave_s13 said:

garpat32 said:

What hit to mileage claim rate? We claim same rate regardless if it's lease or private?

NHS mileage rate is 50p/mile when use your own private car. For salary sacrifice car it drops to something like 5p/mile.

Not true.

We still claim the same regardless, 56p per mile for the first 3500 miles then 20p after that reached per year.

This is across the board at our place and has been in place since the new mileage rules were setup.

From NHS employees page;

https://www.nhsemployers.org/pay-pensions-and-rewa...

22. What about rates of reimbursement for lease car users?

Arrangements for the provision of lease cars to NHS staff will continue to be the responsibility of local partnerships, and informed by HMRC recommended rates.

[Denno B]

GT72 said:

I’m definitely no pension expert, but I can have a good stab at maths and have now done a tiny bit of research into this. Mustache’s explanation above is by far the most accurate summary, but the input numbers are incorrect as I would imagine he or she’s not received a formal quote from the car provider, so was having to guess.

My wife’s quote on the Tesla Model 3 Performance was £382pcm for 10,000 miles per year over 24 months.

The impact on her gross salary is a deduction of £7,577 per annum.

As per Mustache’s calculation that’s a reduction of £140 per annum to her annual pension, based upon 1/54. Therefore a reduction of £280 per annum to her pensionable salary for having the car for 2 years. So assuming she takes the pension for 20 years, that’s a reduction of £5,600 in total over a 20 year period.

Having contacted the scheme provider the reduction in her source pension contribution is £59pcm for the 24 month period of the lease.

Personally I’m happy that it’s still a bargain, saving £15,600 today at a “potential” cost of £5,600 in 20 years’ time is still good value. However, if you are relying solely on the NHS pension and plan to run one of these cars into perpetuity it may be prudent to make contingency plans. It would appear you are able to top up your pension contribution either on a monthly or on an annual lump sum basis, which will hopefully offset the issue. Topping up the £59 pcm cost would take the total cost of our car to £441pcm – still an absolute bargain to what we’d pay if trying to lease one privately – circa £1,000pcm.

As I say, I’m no pensions expert and my wife only started working for the NHS a couple of years ago so her pension really doesn’t factor into our retirements plans, buy for those that are – does the above look about right?

Are you saying the potential cost of £5600 is based on having salary sacrifice cars over that entire 20 year period? So changing for a different car each couple of years?

[Phatbenito]

garpat32 said:

Not true.

We still claim the same regardless, 56p per mile for the first 3500 miles then 20p after that reached per year.

This is across the board at our place and has been in place since the new mileage rules were setup.

From NHS employees page;

https://www.nhsemployers.org/pay-pensions-and-rewa...

22. What about rates of reimbursement for lease car users?

Arrangements for the provision of lease cars to NHS staff will continue to be the responsibility of local partnerships, and informed by HMRC recommended rates.

Which trust do you work for Gary?

[browellm]

garpat32 said:

Not true.

We still claim the same regardless, 56p per mile for the first 3500 miles then 20p after that reached per year.

This is across the board at our place and has been in place since the new mileage rules were setup.

From NHS employees page;

https://www.nhsemployers.org/pay-pensions-and-rewa...

22. What about rates of reimbursement for lease car users?

Arrangements for the provision of lease cars to NHS staff will continue to be the responsibility of local partnerships, and informed by HMRC recommended rates.

This is correct. The old rates (5p thing) for salary sac have not applied for some time since the way the schemes are administered have changed.

In fact the Notts Trust which I have direct experience of have upped their business mile rates to 63p for the first 3,500 miles, 20p thereafter. It's a pity their fleet provider (Fleetcare) doesn't seem to offering very compelling lease deals on the EVs though. I got a couple of Tesla and an e-tron quote off the back of this discussion and they were terrible :/

[sawman]

dave_s13 said:

garpat32 said:

What hit to mileage claim rate? We claim same rate regardless if it's lease or private?

NHS mileage rate is 50p/mile when use your own private car. For salary sacrifice car it drops to something like 5p/mile.

Cant remember what the actual numbers are, but in our trust salary sacrifice cars attract a higher mileage rate than owner drivers, my colleague claims a higher rate fir her countryman hybrid than i do for my TVR! (having said that our trust owns fleet solutions so may have a vested interest in pushing them)

[pavarotti1980]

sawman said:

Cant remember what the actual numbers are, but in our trust salary sacrifice cars attract a higher mileage rate than owner drivers, my colleague claims a higher rate fir her countryman hybrid than i do for my TVR! (having said that our trust owns fleet solutions so may have a vested interest in pushing them)

You cant get parked at the Cobalt though so may as well take the bus so cars are pointless

[garpat32]

sawman said:

dave_s13 said:

garpat32 said:

What hit to mileage claim rate? We claim same rate regardless if it's lease or private?

NHS mileage rate is 50p/mile when use your own private car. For salary sacrifice car it drops to something like 5p/mile.

Cant remember what the actual numbers are, but in our trust salary sacrifice cars attract a higher mileage rate than owner drivers, my colleague claims a higher rate fir her countryman hybrid than i do for my TVR! (having said that our trust owns fleet solutions so may have a vested interest in pushing them)

That's good to know though, thanks.

[sawman]

pavarotti1980 said:

You cant get parked at the Cobalt though so may as well take the bus so cars are pointless

never go to HQ so no problem

[pavarotti1980]

sawman said:

never go to HQ so no problem

I have to go for regional meetings

[GT72]

Denno B said:

Are you saying the potential cost of £5600 is based on having salary sacrifice cars over that entire 20 year period? So changing for a different car each couple of years?

No, the cost of the Tesla for 2 years "could" negatively impact your total pension payout over a 20 year period by £5,600. If you take out a new lease every 2 years that number will increase. It reduces the annual pension payout by £280 per year. If we got another identical Tesla deal in 2 years time then the pension would reduce by £560 per annum (£280 x 2).

If we were planning on taking out an NHS lease permanently, then I would be getting my wife to top up her pension by the £59pcm to offset this cost. But we won't, we're only doing it as the EV deals they're offering are currently soooo cheap. The standard leases look no different to leasing privately, so aren’t in any way attractive.