Is there a better value than this coupe? Doesn't look like.
Discussion
Quickmoose said:
He asked a question, all answers are subjective and opinion based.
The fact you feel he’s been ‘called out’ and ‘jumped’ only goes to show strength of opinion.
Also.... you’ll point out where my opinion of the Crossfire or then OP was detrimental or rude?
No comments along the lines of.... it looks like a squared off shoe....
No-one jumps to my defence ??
All I did was reply to this:The fact you feel he’s been ‘called out’ and ‘jumped’ only goes to show strength of opinion.
Also.... you’ll point out where my opinion of the Crossfire or then OP was detrimental or rude?
No comments along the lines of.... it looks like a squared off shoe....
No-one jumps to my defence ??
Quickmoose said:
.
But ask for opinions and you’ve sadly just got to accept the ones that people can be bothered to put into writing.
He didn't actually ask anybody's opinion about the Crossfire. Reading the thread I was actually thinking exactly that. Why is everybody talking about any cons of the Crossfire when the OP just asked if there is anything cheaper and as good or better? But ask for opinions and you’ve sadly just got to accept the ones that people can be bothered to put into writing.
And didn't you say the Crossfire was nasty before he said about the shoe? Or was it somebody else?
phil y said:
They do seem pretty cheap compared to similar age SLKs, but they were based on the older R170 platform, which might explain the depreciation compared to the Merc. That and the less prestigious badge.
Which is why they have the recirculating ball steering, sadly.Still I've always thought they looked good, and if you want a 6 cylinder Coupe on that sort of budget there aren't many options. And if I was in that situation I'd definitely try one.
But by the time I was looking for a 6 cylinder Coupe I had become a BMW devotee, so I bought a Z4 Coupe which I think looks even better, and is a fair bit more powerful. I was just lucky to have the budget as they cost a fair bit more. But despite what the OP says Z4 Coupes aren't two a penny - less than 3,000 of them were registered in the UK, and that includes the M models!
Mr Tidy said:
Which is why they have the recirculating ball steering, sadly.
Still I've always thought they looked good, and if you want a 6 cylinder Coupe on that sort of budget there aren't many options. And if I was in that situation I'd definitely try one.
But by the time I was looking for a 6 cylinder Coupe I had become a BMW devotee, so I bought a Z4 Coupe which I think looks even better, and is a fair bit more powerful. I was just lucky to have the budget as they cost a fair bit more. But despite what the OP says Z4 Coupes aren't two a penny - less than 3,000 of them were registered in the UK, and that includes the M models!
I took his comment about BMW coupes as talking about all of them. As in 1 series, 2 series etc together. I don't think he said Z4. But maybe I missed it.Still I've always thought they looked good, and if you want a 6 cylinder Coupe on that sort of budget there aren't many options. And if I was in that situation I'd definitely try one.
But by the time I was looking for a 6 cylinder Coupe I had become a BMW devotee, so I bought a Z4 Coupe which I think looks even better, and is a fair bit more powerful. I was just lucky to have the budget as they cost a fair bit more. But despite what the OP says Z4 Coupes aren't two a penny - less than 3,000 of them were registered in the UK, and that includes the M models!
Crossfire is great bang for buck, whether badge snobbery wants it or not. As you said and I agree, if somebody is limited to that budget and wants a V6 RWD sports coupe, he should then get a FWD coupe just because PH thinks the Crossfire is not good?
Quickmoose said:
Question: Is this the best value for a car if this kind?
My answer was Why is value for money a consideration for a car if this kind.
Pretty straightforward. Relevant.
Well if that is the sort of car you want and that is as far as your budget will stretch, then the answer must be blindingly obvious! My answer was Why is value for money a consideration for a car if this kind.
Pretty straightforward. Relevant.
Not everyone on here is a powerfully-built company director (I'm certainly not)!
Quickmoose said:
Question: Is this the best value for a car if this kind?
My answer was ....Why is value for money a consideration for a car of this kind.
Pretty straightforward. Relevant.
Also. Discussing why it’s vfm, is more than relevant also.
This is the problem. The answer to the question should be either: No. It's not the best value. This is...Or yes, it's the best value. My answer was ....Why is value for money a consideration for a car of this kind.
Pretty straightforward. Relevant.
Also. Discussing why it’s vfm, is more than relevant also.
Edited by Quickmoose on Sunday 23 February 23:04
But instead, you offered an answer to a question he didn't ask and then got upset he rejected your answer to the question he didn't ask? You can continue to distort this to save face as much as you wish. But fair is fair. You also made the nasty comment then cried foul for the follow up shoe comment. Just leave it.
cerb4.5lee said:
It is the best Coupe to buy for the money(now), but it is far from the best to drive from what I've seen/read.
I have an Auto Express DVD comparing 13 new(back then) sports cars for fun/value for money...and the Crossfire came last! The Z4 came much higher and the 350Z came first.
I don't know about you. But it has happened to me that I drove a car expecting it to be great because of what I've seen/read, but it turned out to be lackluster and vice versa. Never happened to you? Now I always take opinions with a huge grain of salt till I drive it myself. Any opinions. I don't care if it's Chris Harris, who just happens to not have a lot of love for the MX5. Does that mean the MX5 is not good?I have an Auto Express DVD comparing 13 new(back then) sports cars for fun/value for money...and the Crossfire came last! The Z4 came much higher and the 350Z came first.
Specially car shows and all the personal bias and politics. or youtubers which do even worse at that.
Shifter1 said:
This is the problem. The answer to the question should be either: No. It's not the best value. This is...Or yes, it's the best value.
But instead, you offered an answer to a question he didn't ask and then got upset he rejected your answer to the question he didn't ask? You can continue to distort this to save face as much as you wish. But fair is fair. You also made the nasty comment then cried foul for the follow up shoe comment. Just leave it.
Just leave it? But instead, you offered an answer to a question he didn't ask and then got upset he rejected your answer to the question he didn't ask? You can continue to distort this to save face as much as you wish. But fair is fair. You also made the nasty comment then cried foul for the follow up shoe comment. Just leave it.
sorry internet policeman.I didn’t cry foul
And I didn’t get ‘upset’ at his rejection.
It’s a discussion on a forum discussion based website.... and I answered his question twice.
Once with another... and secondly by adding if VFM was a priority then the answer was/is yes.
And I’ve certainly no interest in saving face in a chat with strangers
Shifter1 said:
cerb4.5lee said:
It is the best Coupe to buy for the money(now), but it is far from the best to drive from what I've seen/read.
I have an Auto Express DVD comparing 13 new(back then) sports cars for fun/value for money...and the Crossfire came last! The Z4 came much higher and the 350Z came first.
I don't know about you. But it has happened to me that I drove a car expecting it to be great because of what I've seen/read, but it turned out to be lackluster and vice versa. Never happened to you? Now I always take opinions with a huge grain of salt till I drive it myself. Any opinions. I don't care if it's Chris Harris, who just happens to not have a lot of love for the MX5. Does that mean the MX5 is not good?I have an Auto Express DVD comparing 13 new(back then) sports cars for fun/value for money...and the Crossfire came last! The Z4 came much higher and the 350Z came first.
Specially car shows and all the personal bias and politics. or youtubers which do even worse at that.
Living with it day to day though I couldn't understand the hype or reputation at all...and I just didn't get on with it. I couldn't understand where the hype had come from for sure.
It is best to take opinions and reviews as a pinch of salt...because you only really know what a car is really like when you live with it day in day out for me.
cerb4.5lee said:
Yes and don't get me wrong I have fell into that trap sadly. Before I got my E92 M3 I'd read countless reviews about how good it was, and I'd also watched many videos saying the same. Plus the M3 badge has a very strong reputation so it had dragged me in.
Living with it day to day though I couldn't understand the hype or reputation at all...and I just didn't get on with it. I couldn't understand where the hype had come from for sure.
It is best to take opinions and reviews as a pinch of salt...because you only really know what a car is really like when you live with it day in day out for me.
Yes. It's easy to fall for it. Specially that here on PH bashing without trying seems to be a motto. Passing judgment based on badges is the normal. I think the Crossfire is probably a good example of that. Full disclosure I have not driven one. But the OP has and yet people who haven't are arguing with him. Living with it day to day though I couldn't understand the hype or reputation at all...and I just didn't get on with it. I couldn't understand where the hype had come from for sure.
It is best to take opinions and reviews as a pinch of salt...because you only really know what a car is really like when you live with it day in day out for me.
But I think a lot of hypocrisy goes on here and in general. The Crossfire is bashed for its looks, for its driving and for being based on the R170. Then something like the BMW Z3 coupe, which in my opinion is way worse looking than the Crossfire and uses 80's BMW bits gets a pass. Because it's a BMW.
The Crossfire is bashed because it's based on the R170, which is also uglier than the Crossfire by the way ( in my opinion). Yet the Z3 coupe has old BMW 80s bits (E30 parts) and is based on the E36 which is not any newer than the R170. Here in the continent we have the Z3 coupe in non M form and I tell you. It's nothing special to drive. It feels dated. But people make excuses, because of the badge.
So the Z3 coupe is ugly and looks like a hearse (yes subjective but so is the Crossfire), has 80's BMW bits, based on an older platform than the R170 or at least as old, has a dated ride, has an engine with basically the same power as a base Crossfire (non M version), rusts, the interior is also cheap looking, but it is still awesome, right. BMW baby! They cost almost 3 times the price of a Crossfire here. That's for the non M Z3 coupe.
The Crossfire is based on the R170 platform, which is definitely not worse, has basically the same power as a non M Z3, being based on the Mercedes I would bet it is more reliable than the Z3. But according to PH mentality it sucks where the Z3 coupe doesn't.
Just because it says Chrysler on the tin? It's a Mercedes underneath. Badge snobbery is a real thing and clouds minds.
It's the same stupid mentality that holds any German car on a pedestal but snobs Japanese cars, which are actually better put together and generally more reliable, despite costing less.
Edited by Shifter1 on Monday 24th February 07:59
OP’s interesting question challenges us all to consider what ‘Value for Money‘ means for a coupe. Since we can all agree on what ‘money’ is, the challenge here is ‘what is the value of a coupe?’.
I suspect we can all agree driving enjoyment is important. However, we’re talking a coupe here, not an out-and-our sports car (a distinction for another thread) so this isn’t the only consideration. For a coupe, looks matter a lot.
OP particularly values a very distinctive (ie different) design, and rightly notes that you are hard pressed to find a more distinctive looking car than the Crossfire at that price. Hence to him it’s the best VFM. Whereas for a coupe I value beauty, elegance and prestige more than pure distinctiveness. So I don’t think a Crossfire is good VFM because I think it’s ungainly and (being harsh) a bit naff, which isn’t what I want from a coupe.
So to answer OPs question, for me there are lots of better value Coupes for 3k out there, of which the Alfa Brera or Audi TT (arguably a sports car) would be my favourites, with Hyundai Coupe, Peugeot 405 Coupe and Audi A5 also great looking cars.
I suspect we can all agree driving enjoyment is important. However, we’re talking a coupe here, not an out-and-our sports car (a distinction for another thread) so this isn’t the only consideration. For a coupe, looks matter a lot.
OP particularly values a very distinctive (ie different) design, and rightly notes that you are hard pressed to find a more distinctive looking car than the Crossfire at that price. Hence to him it’s the best VFM. Whereas for a coupe I value beauty, elegance and prestige more than pure distinctiveness. So I don’t think a Crossfire is good VFM because I think it’s ungainly and (being harsh) a bit naff, which isn’t what I want from a coupe.
So to answer OPs question, for me there are lots of better value Coupes for 3k out there, of which the Alfa Brera or Audi TT (arguably a sports car) would be my favourites, with Hyundai Coupe, Peugeot 405 Coupe and Audi A5 also great looking cars.
Our opinion of the Crossfire is valid when asking us to compare other cars to it... not sure why the OP or the person defending him thinks otherwise.
There's hardly any Crossfire's on the road for a reason. They were and are crap.
TT or SLK for me at that budget/criteria. Smart money (for a proper pistonheader) is on a MK1 MX5 turbo though. 250hp/tonne in a lightweight RWD is great fun.
There's hardly any Crossfire's on the road for a reason. They were and are crap.
TT or SLK for me at that budget/criteria. Smart money (for a proper pistonheader) is on a MK1 MX5 turbo though. 250hp/tonne in a lightweight RWD is great fun.
67Dino said:
OP’s interesting question challenges us all to consider what ‘Value for Money‘ means for a coupe. Since we can all agree on what ‘money’ is, the challenge here is ‘what is the value of a coupe?’.
I suspect we can all agree driving enjoyment is important. However, we’re talking a coupe here, not an out-and-our sports car (a distinction for another thread) so this isn’t the only consideration. For a coupe, looks matter a lot.
OP particularly values a very distinctive (ie different) design, and rightly notes that you are hard pressed to find a more distinctive looking car than the Crossfire at that price. Hence to him it’s the best VFM. Whereas for a coupe I value beauty, elegance and prestige more than pure distinctiveness. So I don’t think a Crossfire is good VFM because I think it’s ungainly and (being harsh) a bit naff, which isn’t what I want from a coupe.
So to answer OPs question, for me there are lots of better value Coupes for 3k out there, of which the Alfa Brera or Audi TT (arguably a sports car) would be my favourites, with Hyundai Coupe, Peugeot 405 Coupe and Audi A5 also great looking cars.
That you have to bend the rules I think proves his point. None of the cars you suggest are RWD. But he said RWD. In that I can't think of anything which offers better value.I suspect we can all agree driving enjoyment is important. However, we’re talking a coupe here, not an out-and-our sports car (a distinction for another thread) so this isn’t the only consideration. For a coupe, looks matter a lot.
OP particularly values a very distinctive (ie different) design, and rightly notes that you are hard pressed to find a more distinctive looking car than the Crossfire at that price. Hence to him it’s the best VFM. Whereas for a coupe I value beauty, elegance and prestige more than pure distinctiveness. So I don’t think a Crossfire is good VFM because I think it’s ungainly and (being harsh) a bit naff, which isn’t what I want from a coupe.
So to answer OPs question, for me there are lots of better value Coupes for 3k out there, of which the Alfa Brera or Audi TT (arguably a sports car) would be my favourites, with Hyundai Coupe, Peugeot 405 Coupe and Audi A5 also great looking cars.
Pulse00 said:
There's hardly any Crossfire's on the road for a reason. They were and are crap.
How many have you owned or driven?Pulse00 said:
TT or SLK for me at that budget/criteria. Smart money (for a proper pistonheader) is on a MK1 MX5 turbo though. 250hp/tonne in a lightweight RWD is great fun.
Right there! PH at its best. What I think is right/important/valid, what you think is not. LOL.Shifter1 said:
Deep Thought said:
Hows what Quickmoose put being a dick?
Not only Quickmoose either. OP comes here and asks a question. Everybody jumps on him answering questions he never asked. Then jump on him for not accepting the answers.
This reaction is exactly the opposite of the stupid default reaction that a MX5 is the right answer to any what car question.
The O/P asked was there a better value RWD coupe than the Crossfire. The answer to that - as has been put by many people is - no there probably isnt.
BUT as many people pointed out - is "value" peoples driving factor for buying a RWD coupe? Also was RWD a driving factor for a good coupe? Also some people had concerns over the cars looks, parts availability and ability.
The O/P then came back and jumped on them and told us all why we are wrong.
So, no he didnt ask for opinions, but its a forum thread and people give opinions to back up their views
Mr Tidy said:
Quickmoose said:
Question: Is this the best value for a car if this kind?
My answer was Why is value for money a consideration for a car if this kind.
Pretty straightforward. Relevant.
Well if that is the sort of car you want and that is as far as your budget will stretch, then the answer must be blindingly obvious! My answer was Why is value for money a consideration for a car if this kind.
Pretty straightforward. Relevant.
Not everyone on here is a powerfully-built company director (I'm certainly not)!
Theres the 3.2 litre Alfa GT - but apparently thats not a valid choice as its FWD.
Theres the 350Z - but apparently thats not a valid choice either because its heavy.
Theres the Boxster - but thats not a valid choice either as its a convertible.
Theres the 3.2 litre TT - but thats FWD and not very good apparently.
Theres the SLK350 - but apparently its not a drivers car.
None of those require you to be a powerfully built company director to buy one and none of those require a stretch as the O/Ps budget range is £3K-7K?
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