Lightweight V8 coupes?

[ZackM]

Thanks for the suggestions. But for me to go ahead with this I need to find something where the V8 and the car are from the same manufacturer. I want it to belong. I'm looking for something a little more refined as well. So the usual LS drop in any car won't work here.

The SLK is a Mercedes and Mercedes has V8s. That works.

To give another example, not that I'm thinking of a Rover, but a Rover car with a 4 cylinder could have a Rover V8 dropped in it. Keeping it in the family. I know the Rover V8 used to be a Buick by the way. But I believe you understand what I mean.

So I don't want for example a Japanese car with a Chevy V8 and so on.

So what else besides the SLK is there which could meet these parameters? Car and V8 from the same manufacturer, car somewhat refined, small, lightweight and preferably affordable since this will now be a project.

[TurboBlue]

If you can manage LHD then here is one ALPINA have already made for you (they were told by BMW AG that they could not make the V8 fit - bit they did).

https://home.mobile.de/JW-NORDKIRCHEN#des_27363115...

[300bhp/ton]

ZackM said:

The Esprit is nice. I had a 1989 Turbo. It was nice but I don't fancy another one. I'm also in the group thinking the V8 kind of ruined the car. I have driven a few V8s.

All together I don't lust for another Esprit. But if I ever would I think the ultimate Esprit is a Sport 300.

So now I'm starting to consider V8 swaps. Dropping a V8 in something small and light. Engine at front power at the rear.

I'm quite liking the idea of the SLK, as I would like something a bit more refined or classy. By that I mean I don't want the usual LS swap. The thought of a Mercedes V8 or something like that is more what I would like. I want something that allows me to keep it in the family. Meaning engine and car from the same manufacturer. Again reason the SLK is a good option. Also it seems it has been done. So that makes things easier.

Any other suggestions within these parameters that I should consider?

The trouble is. The LS is just hard to beat on almost any front.

Compared to any Euro V8, which are all DOHC. The LS is typically shorter, less tall, not as wide and weighs less. This means it is a lot easier to fit into anything.

They are also very tunable. Although they make great power stock anyway. Lots and lots of aftermarket parts. And because they are used so often there are lots and lots of adapters to bolt them up to a variety of different gearboxes. And a host of stand alone ECU and ignition options.

On top of all this they sound flipping epic too. Nothing beats the sound of an OHV V8. They just sound different. And they drive really well.

The only downside in the UK is finding used ones. Although not impossible.

Using an engine from anyone else will be harder, more work, more R&D, less off the shelf options and likely more cost. Eg a crate LS will probably set you back in the region of £6000 new. If Mercedes will sell you an engine you are probably talking £15,000 - 20,000.

The Dodge/Chrysler Hemi is a good engine too. And shares many attributes that make the LS great. But they are less common for swaps and have a smaller aftermarket. But they would probably be 2nd choice unless you are looking at scrapyard engines and going very cheap, eg a £500-800 Jag AJV8 or Lexus lump.

[irocfan]

ZackM said:

Thanks for the suggestions. But for me to go ahead with this I need to find something where the V8 and the car are from the same manufacturer. I want it to belong. I'm looking for something a little more refined as well. So the usual LS drop in any car won't work here.

The SLK is a Mercedes and Mercedes has V8s. That works.

To give another example, not that I'm thinking of a Rover, but a Rover car with a 4 cylinder could have a Rover V8 dropped in it. Keeping it in the family. I know the Rover V8 used to be a Buick by the way. But I believe you understand what I mean.

So I don't want for example a Japanese car with a Chevy V8 and so on.

So what else besides the SLK is there which could meet these parameters? Car and V8 from the same manufacturer, car somewhat refined, small, lightweight and preferably affordable since this will now be a project.

ok silly hat time...

RWD Ford Puma (or indeed a Probe) with a Coyote lump?
Opel Manta with LS lump
Pontiac Solstice/Opel Speedster with LS lump
GT86 with Lexus V8
Crossfire with 6.2 Hemi (or a Merc V8)
Westfield Seight

[ZackM]

TurboBlue said:

If you can manage LHD then here is one ALPINA have already made for you (they were told by BMW AG that they could not make the V8 fit - bit they did).

https://home.mobile.de/JW-NORDKIRCHEN#des_27363115...

Interesting.

I'm all for special cars. But what am I missing here? Why go for this instead of the V8 M3 E92? Maybe E36 fans? At that time it was interesting. But today I guess only for collectors? If I'm indeed being dumb and missing something, please put me right.

[ZackM]

300bhp/ton said:

The trouble is. The LS is just hard to beat on almost any front.

Compared to any Euro V8, which are all DOHC. The LS is typically shorter, less tall, not as wide and weighs less. This means it is a lot easier to fit into anything.

They are also very tunable. Although they make great power stock anyway. Lots and lots of aftermarket parts. And because they are used so often there are lots and lots of adapters to bolt them up to a variety of different gearboxes. And a host of stand alone ECU and ignition options.

On top of all this they sound flipping epic too. Nothing beats the sound of an OHV V8. They just sound different. And they drive really well.

The only downside in the UK is finding used ones. Although not impossible.

Using an engine from anyone else will be harder, more work, more R&D, less off the shelf options and likely more cost. Eg a crate LS will probably set you back in the region of £6000 new. If Mercedes will sell you an engine you are probably talking £15,000 - 20,000.

The Dodge/Chrysler Hemi is a good engine too. And shares many attributes that make the LS great. But they are less common for swaps and have a smaller aftermarket. But they would probably be 2nd choice unless you are looking at scrapyard engines and going very cheap, eg a £500-800 Jag AJV8 or Lexus lump.

I know what you mean and you are of course 110% correct.

But would you agree that somehow the LS lacks "specialness",for lack of a better word? Probably exactly because they are in everything. But that is no grounds for dismissing it.

I just feel really strong about having a car and engine of the same manufacturer. I think it would just tie the package together in a nicer way. Am I being silly or too superficial? Maybe. But I feel like to make it something special, this would highly contribute to that.

And as you said, LS engines are not as common as they are in the U.S.

I wouldn't mind going with a scrapyard unit. So many nice ones to be had. In projects like this anything you can use to keep the budget in check is useful. It would all depend on the engine in question.

[TurboBlue]

I've quoted the B8 because it was an ready made solution to your question about transplanting a (marque linked) V8 into a unsuspecting light sports car. You're not going to get the best handling car if you add a V8 where they don't belong but you will get an exciting proposition; from the reviews I remember the B8 4.6 overpowers the E36 chassis.

It is also a counterpoint to your idea of a V8 SLK. Friend of mine had a new AMG SLK55; he only used it weekends, did just a couple of thousand miles tops before the lease ran out. Made an epic noise but wasn't missed when it went. I doubt you'd say that about the B8.

[samoht]

BMW 4.8i into a Z4 Coupe would be good I think
Porsche 968 with the V8 from a Cayenne GTS

[ZackM]

irocfan said:

ok silly hat time...

RWD Ford Puma (or indeed a Probe) with a Coyote lump?
Opel Manta with LS lump
Pontiac Solstice/Opel Speedster with LS lump
GT86 with Lexus V8
Crossfire with 6.2 Hemi (or a Merc V8)
Westfield Seight

Silly you and I both.

Am I a perv for loving your idea of a RWD V8 Puma? Because it sounds so wrong but yet so right. A Puma is already a load of fun. In RWD guise with a V8 it would be indecently fun. Can you imagine how many expensive performance cars it could leave behind holding their ...? Why am I loving more and more the sound of this?

But practically speaking, it wouldn't really be a Puma anymore right? I guess so much would need to be changed, that we would be basically talking about some other car with Puma body panels?

Or is there an opened door somewhere? I know they do it with some generation of the Escort and I think there we have an opened door of sorts? I'm not sure if it's AWD, or sharing something with the Sierra. But I seem to remember some link which made it possible. But the Puma?

But I sure love the idea!

But probably way too complex to pull off.

The rest of your suggestions are also great. Really within the spirit of the whole thing.

So good that most of them probably have been done already. Which of course would only make things easier for me.

A Manta with a LS seems like a given and someone must have done it.

Solstice and Opel GT (the Speedster is the VX220 ) are done all the time. Specially the U.S. version of the Opel, ie the Saturn Sky.

GT86 with a Lexus V8. Cool idea. Are there any records of it being done? Sounds like it should have.

Crossfire with a Merc V8 has been done. The other day somebody posted a Brabus V8 one on another thread. I have also seen swaps mentioned around. Thinking of it, that would quite fit the idea of the small and light coupe with a big V8 too.

But honestly, nothing is as wild as the RWD V8 Puma!

Edited by ZackM on Wednesday 11th March 22:53

[ZackM]

TurboBlue said:

I've quoted the B8 because it was an ready made solution to your question about transplanting a (marque linked) V8 into a unsuspecting light sports car. You're not going to get the best handling car if you add a V8 where they don't belong but you will get an exciting proposition; from the reviews I remember the B8 4.6 overpowers the E36 chassis.

It is also a counterpoint to your idea of a V8 SLK. Friend of mine had a new AMG SLK55; he only used it weekends, did just a couple of thousand miles tops before the lease ran out. Made an epic noise but wasn't missed when it went. I doubt you'd say that about the B8.

No, it was a good suggestion. I also didn't know those existed, so I learned something new.

I was just pondering how the B8 would do against an E92 M3 and what reasons there would be to get the B8 over the E92 M3.

But as a suggestion to fit with the spirit of the project, it is definitely fitting.

The SLK55 is a R171. They are quite heavy for the size. I was thinking of doing what Brabus did and do a V8 R170. The R170 is quite a bit lighter. This was what Clarkson drove and praised the heck out of it.

Edited by ZackM on Wednesday 11th March 22:56

[ZackM]

samoht said:

BMW 4.8i into a Z4 Coupe would be good I think
Porsche 968 with the V8 from a Cayenne GTS

I can't help but feel like Porsche already made the 968 with a V8. They just called it a 928.

Even the headlights are the same.

All in good spirits of course. Not dissing you.

But your suggestion of the Z4 coupe with the V8 is intriguing. Would it fit?

[TurboBlue]

ZackM said:

TurboBlue said:

I've quoted the B8 because it was an ready made solution to your question about transplanting a (marque linked) V8 into a unsuspecting light sports car. You're not going to get the best handling car if you add a V8 where they don't belong but you will get an exciting proposition; from the reviews I remember the B8 4.6 overpowers the E36 chassis.

It is also a counterpoint to your idea of a V8 SLK. Friend of mine had a new AMG SLK55; he only used it weekends, did just a couple of thousand miles tops before the lease ran out. Made an epic noise but wasn't missed when it went. I doubt you'd say that about the B8.

No, it was a good suggestion. I also didn't know those existed, so I learned something new.

I was just pondering how the B8 would do against an E92 M3 and what reasons there would be to get the B8 over the E92 M3.

But as a suggestion to fit with the spirit of the project, it is definitely fitting.

I've just got a penchant for the old rather than the new; never driven the B8, briefly drove an E90 M3 V8 which I didn't get on with (me, not it, I suspect); undoubtedly the E90 is a better car than the E36 but it depends on what you are looking for; does it have to be the best, or does it have to be an event? The former will probably be more modern, the latter might be classic (for want of a better word). This is all just my opinion and very subjective.

For some facts, here is a duel of a manual B8 4.6 vs. and E90 M3 V8 (manual, DCT would be unfair); the newer M3 is faster but not by much.

http://www.zeperfs.com/en/duel2605-1598.htm

[AshVX220]

ZackM said:

The Esprit is nice. I had a 1989 Turbo. It was nice but I don't fancy another one. I'm also in the group thinking the V8 kind of ruined the car. I have driven a few V8s.

All together I don't lust for another Esprit. But if I ever would I think the ultimate Esprit is a Sport 300.

So now I'm starting to consider V8 swaps. Dropping a V8 in something small and light. Engine at front power at the rear.

I'm quite liking the idea of the SLK, as I would like something a bit more refined or classy. By that I mean I don't want the usual LS swap. The thought of a Mercedes V8 or something like that is more what I would like. I want something that allows me to keep it in the family. Meaning engine and car from the same manufacturer. Again reason the SLK is a good option. Also it seems it has been done. So that makes things easier.

Any other suggestions within these parameters that I should consider?

Just get an SLK55 in that case, job jobbed as they say.

[kurt535]

forget lightweight. go full fat. dodge challenger.

[irocfan]

kurt535 said:

forget lightweight. go full fat. dodge challenger.

[ZackM]

TurboBlue said:

I've just got a penchant for the old rather than the new; never driven the B8, briefly drove an E90 M3 V8 which I didn't get on with (me, not it, I suspect); undoubtedly the E90 is a better car than the E36 but it depends on what you are looking for; does it have to be the best, or does it have to be an event? The former will probably be more modern, the latter might be classic (for want of a better word). This is all just my opinion and very subjective.

For some facts, here is a duel of a manual B8 4.6 vs. and E90 M3 V8 (manual, DCT would be unfair); the newer M3 is faster but not by much.

http://www.zeperfs.com/en/duel2605-1598.htm

I understand the appreciation for old school. I have that myself. Specially when compared to brand new cars.

The B8 is definitely an interesting car.

[ZackM]

AshVX220 said:

Just get an SLK55 in that case, job jobbed as they say.

Yes it would be easy enough. But would fall short of what I really want. It is still too heavy and to be honest, if I can I would much prefer a manual. The SLK55 is automatic only.

[Olas]

ZackM said:

But the E46 is a large car in comparison.

If you go back to my first post I mention 2 seats. The idea is a small car. With a smaller footprint.

I think many might not understand what I'm looking for if you have never driven this type of car. Basically a ridiculously light car with a ridiculously big engine of sorts. Because of the light weight, any bleep on the pedal throws you against the seat. The small footprint makes it change directions very easy. It's just heck of a fun toy.

I guess the Atom probably gets you that. But it's not a coupe type. It's almost a formula car of sorts.

Think a modern Shelby Cobra of sorts, but coupe. I guess the Shelby Daytona was the coupe of that. But that kind of package. Probably doesn't exist outside of something which is 25-30 years old minimum.

Edited by ZackM on Tuesday 10th March 14:49

If the homolgated racecar with number plates is too big and heavy for you, and not sufficiently responsive with 493 bhp and 1300kg then you may have more fun buying an MX5 and a V8, welding up some mounts and learning your way round MSnS.

If oyu cant buy what you want sometimes you just have to build it, like this;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02rzz25bbyg

[ZackM]

kurt535 said:

forget lightweight. go full fat. dodge challenger.

Sorry. But totally the opposite of what I want.

After giving this some good thought, I have now a very solid idea of what I want for this. Down to the millimeter.

Weight max. 1300kg.

Small size. So wheelbase between 2400mm and 2450mm. Too short wheelbase is also not it. As short overhangs as possible though. As close to 4000mm length as possible. 4080mm is ok. But 4200mm is probably too much. As close to 4000mm as possible. Low.

NA V8 and a manual gearbox.

Coupe. But something with a retractable metal roof could work. Can I weld it?

Engine and car must be of the same manufacturer. I know this will limit it to badges which have a V8 and a small car. But I will try to stick to this before I give up and just drop a LS into something.

Would highly prefer something European. Parts and everything would just be more readily available. It would also probably be more refined.

Something not very old. I'm not thinking of a restomod. It would be nice to have some modern tech in it.

Did I just hang myself?

I'm fully aware that I'm now in the world of something customized. Not expecting to find an existing model that will be a 100% fit at this point. Right?

Now on to select a list of potential options for the project. Suggestions are welcome if you fancy a challenge.

[irocfan]

the problem that you're going to face is that the LS is the world's most popular engine for a very good reason. The other issue is that modern cars are stuffed full of witchcraft which is might difficult to get communicating with (for example) a bigger engine - even from the same manufacturer