What car: ca. £28k; 4 seats; 300+ HP

[bobsavage789]

I haven’t yet ruled out the Stinger: it’s by far and away the most sensible option on the shortlist. What do people think of the reaction of the gearbox? I forgot to say that I found it a bit too hesitant when I wanted it to kick down...

I actually tried to buy the 540i yesterday, but they just wouldn’t budge on price (sticker price was about £700 more than my absolute limit, with all lines of credit exhausted). It’d been listed for sale since mid-March, and they’ve dropped the sticker price by £500 in the meantime... it baffles me why they wouldn’t budge by that relatively insignificant amount, as I can’t imagine there’d be too much interest in a £30k, 3 litre petrol saloon in these times...

What do I know though...

[bobsavage789]

dunc69 said:

Interesting to get others’ thoughts on the Stinger.

Like any car, you will get used to it, it certainly took me a while. Pretty sure you will get comfortable, as you say, so much adjustment. I’d hope the achey arm could be avoided with some adjustment and getting the tracking sorted. The tracking was slightly out on mine when I bought it, but it was easily sorted.

I definitely feel very comfortable in mine now. You know that ‘fits like a glove’ feeling? I seem to be able to drive it faster and faster as I get to know it better.

In relation to the gearbox, it isn’t perfect but I find it very, very good and I have tried loads of autos, both torque converter and DSG / DCT / S-tronic.

At parking speeds and cruising it is impeccable. No DSG I have ever driven is totally smooth when manoeuvring. This torque converter naturally is.

At lower speeds it is perfect in auto mode.
When pushing on in Sport it occasionally changes up slightly less smoothly than I would like (DSG is amazing here) but I will accept that for the other benefits.

I’ve never had an issue with kickdown, especially in Sport and Sport +. It just changes down and flies! As a 2019 car, perhaps the software upgrade has helped with this? Certainly it is fun driving hard with the paddles, and it will stay in manual with the upgraded box.

Overall, a good effort by Kia having decided not to buy a gearbox in. Certainly doesn’t spoil the car for me.

Edited by dunc69 on Monday 29th June 18:27

I’m hoping the facelift might have helped the gearbox issues. Also, I didn’t really have time to use the paddles much on the test drive, so I suppose changing down manually before booting it would be the answer there if immediate power is required.

Running costs are (for me) roughly £80 a month less than a 540i, which pays for half a holiday over the year, so as I say: it remains a contender for the time being.

[bobsavage789]

Althalus said:

That seems very strange to me you'd think they'd want the sale! I guess the last few months have been challenging and they're holding out hope. I think it might take another month before pent up demand starts to dry up a bit.

I've just got back from my test drive, I know what you mean about there being a slight lag before the downshift in sport and sport plus. I found if I wanted to floor it manual control was much more satisfying.
The shift wasn't quite as quick as in the Alfa, but it got the job done. The dsg in my old cupra 290 was better than both of them.

Regarding comfort, the seat was a pain to get right, and I'm not sure I quite got it there on the test drive, however, I think that with all that adjustment I'd get it right given a bit more time. Oddly I got out with my right arm aching which I've never experienced before in any car (I think the tracking was, off as the car was pulling left and I spent a bit of time countering it.)

I'm tall and I couldn't see the top part of the HUD with the seat in it's most comfortable position I had to go right back and then the steering wheel wouldn't come close enough to get my arms comfortable. I think there is almost too much variability.

It is a big car, but I had no issue with that on the move, it's comfortable and well insulated, though wind noise starts to intrude at 'cruising' speed on the moterway. The cooling in the seats is lovely! Parking was easy due to the huge number of cameras. The rear visibility is terrible, again overcome by blind-spot warning and cameras.
I thought the interior was on a par with BMW, there is a bit of hard plastic very low down, that's a good thing to prevent scuffs as far as I'm concerned. I thought it seemed nicely premium.

I didn't think it felt that alert if I'm honest, but my benchmark right now is a gt86 and this is a different class of car. From a value for money perspective I'm not sure it can be beaten! Every toy under the sun, it looked stunning in red with cream leather.

I have left undecided mainly due to how much my arm aches at the moment!

Interesting about the arm: is it purely down to the steering wheel being too far away, d’ya reckon?

I’m afraid I have to respectfully disagree on the comparison with BMW interiors: the 5 series felt leagues ahead of the Stinger to me. It’s certainly the one I’d prefer to be driven around in!

You’re right on the parking though: piece of urine! I’d never used surround view cameras before: quite the revelation!

[bobsavage789]

steevewright said:

Value for money wise the 6 series' seem to really be providing the best value for performance/spec/comfort in a package at the moment - would definitely be where I went with this. Alternately if you're willing to go SLIGHTLY older; https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...

I’d love a 6 series: they look like fantastic GT cars. Unfortunately, they’re another 50% on top of the already-very-expensive 5 series’ insurance, which rules them out...

[bobsavage789]

stuart_83 said:

Yeah, they're a fantastic car. If I were buying outright in cash they'd be at the top of my list, especially with the 7 years warranty.

Always thought they'd make a bargain at 2-3 years old, but they've held their value a little too well

Wonder if the rumours of the 3.5T are true? Also heard they may not bring out a new model after the next facelift which would be a huge shame.

I’d heard they weren’t selling enough to make it worthwhile making them still, so I asked the Kia salesman about it.

He told me they were discontinuing the diesel and the 2 litre Stingers, and keeping going with the 3.3, which is great, because it’s such an under appreciated car.

[bobsavage789]

Althalus said:

Having driven it I can't see it being a lot of fun with a 2.0t. I really hope it gets a facelift and then another generation. Kia deserve a lot of praise.

Yep: that 3.3 litre engine is definitely the party piece!

I really hope they keep going with it; same for Hyundai and their very well received i30N

[bobsavage789]

My test drive in the C43 is now done. Here are my thoughts:

Pros:
- what a noise that exhaust makes... my word! That’s without the sports exhaust as well.
- the one I tested was very well-optioned (lane keep, adaptive cruise, sunroof to name but a few).
- when in ‘Comfort’, it was surprisingly relaxing and quiet, even at high speed.
- plenty quick enough
- The steering felt nice and sharp

Cons:
- the interior, whilst stylish, feels very dated, especially compared to the 5 series.
- room in the back seats is minimal for what is supposedly a small saloon: my Golf feels bigger in the back.
- the infotainment is noticeably previous-generation, which makes it feel old now, let alone when I move it on. Luckily I’m not hugely bothered about all this modern technology!
- MB servicing is ruinously expensive if I want to keep the MBSH in tact.

Time for some man maths: I’ll report back if/when I make a decision!

[bobsavage789]

quinny100 said:

bobsavage789 said:

My test drive in the C43 is now done. Here are my thoughts:

- MB servicing is ruinously expensive if I want to keep the MBSH in tact.

It isn't - Service Care on a C43 is £38 a month. I pay more than that for my 2.0 diesel E-Class!

It’s all relative, I suppose... for the miles I do, it’s more than the 5 series and Stinger would be.

Since my last post, I’ve actually done a bit of research and it’s not as ruinous as I originally thought.

[bobsavage789]

dunc69 said:

Bob, how did you find the C43 for size?

I felt a little cramped in a C recently. The E is a better size I think. My brother has had both recently.

There is a new C imminent, which should be bang up to date interior and tech-wise. The latest E is fabulous inside.

Of course, neither available for £28k.......

The front seats were absolutely fine; maybe a tad higher than I’d like. The rear was very cramped though: I wouldn’t want to spend any length of time in there!

Boot space actually looked a bit bigger than the Stinger, but the interior was slightly smaller.

[bobsavage789]

ZX10R NIN said:

There are a couple of E43's for sale but it'll involve a budget creep:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...

Premium

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...

There is an alternative that's in your price bracket & that's the CLS400 this is the same engine as the C/E43 but RWD these will have the older style dash but are a good alternative.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...

The CLS does look lovely on the outside, but I’m afraid I can’t look past that interior which is now 2 generations old...

Don’t get me wrong: the lack of rear space isn’t a deal breaker: so long as there’s relatively-easily accessible space for a baby seat, I don’t mind.

I’m currently leaning towards the C43 as a final blast before I go electric/hybrid... I plan on beginning the discussion with the dealer this week...

[bobsavage789]

dunc69 said:

Good luck Bob. Hope you can get a cracking deal!

Let us know how you get on!

Thanks Dunc: I’ll be sure to provide closure to the thread if/when I buy something!

[bobsavage789]

Mr_Megalomaniac said:

Enjoying reading the reviews and your impressions Bob.
I know it was recommended earlier but I'd suggest looking into the XE S as well. There's 3.0l supercharged V6, produces 335bhp (2015-2017) and revised to produce 375bhp from 2018 onwards.
Good luck with the rest of the list to choose from!

The XE S was my ‘first love’ when settling in a shortlist: there was a beautiful 18 plate in Firenze red, with black wheels and all the options, for sale in Devon a few months ago (let’s call it “Fiona”). Fiona sat in my AT saved adverts for 6 months or so, and I was counting down the days until I’d paid off enough of my current loan to be able to afford her...

One day I noticed the price had been dropped by £500: my beautiful dream car was closer than ever! I frantically searched for a way to pay off my loan, get to Devon and buy the Jag... a week later it had disappeared from AT. Panicked, I went to the dealer’s own website in a vain hope the AT advert had simply expired. Alas and alack, Fiona had disappeared from there as well, my dream car gone...

Since then, XE Ss have been few and far between (there’s one within 80 miles of me), and none even come close to the spec of Fiona, and the standard interior feels very incongruous at that price point, so anything short of Fiona will surely be a disappointment.

If a high-spec ones comes up, I’ll jump all over it. Until then, I’ll always have my memories and dreams of the one that got away...

[bobsavage789]

andrew333 said:

Just buy what you want the more you ask others the more confused you will get.
its your cash make your own mind up you will be happier .
What do you want to go that fast for bloody speed cameras everywhere, good hunting hope you keep your licence.

I had every intention of buying something I wanted: I do, however, like to ‘bounce’ things off PH, as (as demonstrated in this very thread) people can often suggest options which might not previously have been considered, or be able to provide unique insight to a vehicle that cannot be garnered by a test drive alone...

I appreciate your concern for my licence: arguably there’s no need for such low 0-60 times. My counter-argument would be is there any need for anything beyond a Davis Sandero..? Maybe not...

Anyway, today I put down a deposit on this little beauty:

https://www.baytreecars.com/stock/mercedes-benz-3-...

My reasons:
- the Stinger, whilst the sensible and economical choice, just didn’t feel ‘special’ enough, especially inside.
- the 540i I had my eye on (very well-specced: adaptive suspension, HUD, sunroof, tech pack) and even made an offer on (£700 below asking: rejected) has now sold.
- I couldn’t find a 3/440i made before June 2018 (for the MPPSK) anywhere near me.
- the C43 seemed to be the perfect middle ground between wafty comfort (5 series) and handling. It also didn’t feel too big on the road.
- my BIL is a workshop manager at a Mercedes commercial outlet, so can do stamped servicing at a useful discount.
- the c43 dealer (independent place near Derby) was the most helpful of the lot.

I collect it on Saturday: very much looking forward to it!

[bobsavage789]

dmsims said:

Looks nice in that colour (and not a jelly mould in sight )

Sorry, don’t get the jelly mould comment: someone is going to have to explain that to me!

[bobsavage789]

dmsims said:

Some Mercs to my eye looked like they plopped from a jelly mould (and not in a good way!)

Fair enough. Thankfully I didn’t buy the C43 for its exterior styling: it’s not much of a looker, that’s for sure!

[bobsavage789]

Actus Reus said:

Great thread. I'm possibly going to be in the same situation a little later this year (if I don't find a lease deal I like), and had a similar shortlist (no 540i though, just 340/440), but at the start thought my choice would be Stinger, C43 or S4, with the C43 probably favourite.

Enjoy the car and do update the thread once you've had it for a few weeks.

Glad you’ve enjoyed the ride!

I shall of course give the people/Actus Reus what they want and report back with any interesting findings.

AR: let me know if you’ve any questions about the Merc/Stinger: I may only have bought one of them, but have spent seemingly ages researching them!

I’m also happy to share AT ads for some appealing examples (depending on your budget).

[bobsavage789]

Actus Reus said:

Thanks Bob - I've spent a bit of time reading about them and I've driven a C63, but that was at Mercedes Benz World so it passed in a blur of sliding and wheel spinning.

I guess my first impressions are that the Kia is too long and the Merc is now a bit long in the tooth and the various infotainment is a bit dated. Is that fair or does it feel up-to-date in the Merc? And just how much bigger is the Stinger in practice? The Stinger's 7 year warranty has a lot to recommend it, as does the rarity. I was surprised that the cabin felt small, though.

Whilst the idea of a C63 sounds very appealing, I've read/heard they're actually nowhere near as usable in the real world as its lesser-powered sibling: RWD means any bit of damp on the roads makes the tyres spin, and then you've got the running costs. Obviously the sound and performance are glorious...

I'd agree that the C class desperately needed a facelift at the very least, so yes, the cabin does feel dated; especially with that silly screen plonked on top. I'd argue the lack of 'styling' (in the nicest possible way, Dunc!) means the Stinger's cabin is sort of timeless, but it felt very utilitarian to me... depends how much you care about interior styling. I do love the open-pore wood in the Merc though! Of the 3 I tested, the 5 series had by far the nicest cabin, both in terms of styling and quality.

The infotainment in the C43 does everything I need it to: I can play music from my mobile 'phone, can make hands-free calls, the sat-nav is clear enough and the menus seems to make sense (to me, anyway). It doesn't, however, have Carplay/Android Auto, so that might be a turn-off for some.

In terms of sizes, the Mercedes is only 15cm or so shorter and 6cm narrower, so not much in it in pure numbers. It may be that the Kia has a lower roof and the C43 I've bought had a panoramic sunroof, so the Kia felt darker and more cramped inside: it may have been useful to sit in one with the lighter leather.

As I've said many times, the Kia would doubtlessly have given me many years of worry-free motoring, and I am already fretting about what to do when the 6 month warranty on the Merc runs out, but it just 'felt' like the car for me... I suppose it helped that the wife much preferred the Mercedes!

Oh and I'd thoroughly recommend Dunc69's Kia Stinger thread in Readers' Cars: I found it very useful and he's very good at responding to questions on there!

[bobsavage789]

Time to update everyone after my first couple of days:

Picked her up on Sunday, then had an hour and a half journey to get to grips with things:

1) the infotainment really takes some getting used to! I didn’t find it very intuitive at all.
2) it sounds superb, even without the sports exhaust.
3) the acceleration off the line is incredible: having 4WD is a big help, but the auto ‘box is also very quick.
4) in Eco/Comfort, it’s actually a very comfortable, relaxing drive
5) the adaptive cruise control is great, although the controls feel a lot cheaper (on a funny stalk) than the Golf GTI I had.
6) using the lane keep assist requires enormous cojones: it often didn’t recognise the edge of a roadway if there was no white line there, so I must have seemed like a drunk driver at times! It works great on a motorway though...
7) not having had a 4WD car before, the acceleration around corners is something I’ll have to get used to: it’s relentless!

Anyway, here are some gratuitous images:

[bobsavage789]

[bobsavage789]