"The end of haggling with a used-car salesman" ?
Discussion
kevinon said:
Good examples of the past failures - but 10 years ago is a long time in tech.
In a new sector all startups fail, until one doesn't; it thrives. It needs to have seen failed attempts, (and learned). It needs users to embrace new ways of thinking, and it needs enough money in the bank to make mistakes, learn, improve till it breaks through. (and it needs luck too; so much can go wrong).
The Telegraph article has a reader comment which I think shows the preference for transparent pricing for *some people*
"When I bought my last car, there was a discount of £500, another discount of £750 for having a test drive, another £750 for taking a finance deal which you could get out of within 14 days but keep the discount. These were clearly made up “Discounts” to encourage you to think you were getting a good deal. Why not simply reduce the retail price to something sensible - on balance the dealer may have sold more cars"
That's an interesting point - would a car sales business achieve *more* units or higher *total revenue* if there was no haggling? I don't know, but sure as eggs are eggs someone will give the answer !
Agreed - however this isnt a "tech" startup. Its not offering anything that wasnt available 10 years ago. I dont see any particular advantage being made of technical advancements in that time to offer anything new.In a new sector all startups fail, until one doesn't; it thrives. It needs to have seen failed attempts, (and learned). It needs users to embrace new ways of thinking, and it needs enough money in the bank to make mistakes, learn, improve till it breaks through. (and it needs luck too; so much can go wrong).
The Telegraph article has a reader comment which I think shows the preference for transparent pricing for *some people*
"When I bought my last car, there was a discount of £500, another discount of £750 for having a test drive, another £750 for taking a finance deal which you could get out of within 14 days but keep the discount. These were clearly made up “Discounts” to encourage you to think you were getting a good deal. Why not simply reduce the retail price to something sensible - on balance the dealer may have sold more cars"
That's an interesting point - would a car sales business achieve *more* units or higher *total revenue* if there was no haggling? I don't know, but sure as eggs are eggs someone will give the answer !
In fact - worse than that - Car Quake 10 years ago pitched themselves as cheaper than buying from a main dealer whereas Cazoo seem to be significantly more expensive.
With reference to your last point - people buy based on price. A "no haggling" price promise only works if your cheapest in the first place. Being £1,500 more expensive and then promising to "not haggle" isnt going to go down well with the car buying public.
l354uge said:
I would be nervous buying a car online and having it delivered to my door. I like a dealership where I can go over the car before buying and on pickup so I can check for faults at the dealer.
Bought my other half's car through a big car supermarket, used their easy car search, found the right car, put down a £150 refundable deposit so they would transport it from Newcastle to our nearest branch, OH test drove it, loved it, I found some niggles for them to sort and we paid asking price (no haggling allowed, the price was good anyway)
Picked it up a week later and drove away.
Only sour note was all the extra crap they tried to sell us (finance, tyre insurance etc) but if you can get through that it's alot easier than driving around for miles haggling with people.
Which is fine in a way because its how a lot of places be the cheapest - by hoping (and succeeding in) to upsell some other products. Cazoo loses a lot of that capability to upsell thus further diminishes their chances of being cheapest.Bought my other half's car through a big car supermarket, used their easy car search, found the right car, put down a £150 refundable deposit so they would transport it from Newcastle to our nearest branch, OH test drove it, loved it, I found some niggles for them to sort and we paid asking price (no haggling allowed, the price was good anyway)
Picked it up a week later and drove away.
Only sour note was all the extra crap they tried to sell us (finance, tyre insurance etc) but if you can get through that it's alot easier than driving around for miles haggling with people.
Mexman said:
Manufacturers set the RRP, and outline all of the available model relevant deposit contributions, finance rates, test drive incentives, etc, not the dealer.
The dealer is still working within the parameters of the mostly small dealer margin that they have.
A manufacturer will tweak and adjust these incentives normally on a quarterly basis, obviously dependent on sales.
Citroen were and probably still are the worst for this.
New model comes out, RRPs quoted, certain incentives for finance, and test drives etc, then just as you have got your head around the myriad of differing offers on different specs and options, they then a month later change it all, including the base line RRPs, as sales dont meet their expectations.
And on it goes, until the RRP, basically is irrelevant, and the offers they keep throwing at you, and constantly changing, makes it impossible to keep ahead of.
I remember when I worked for Citroen up until 2009, I couldn't tell you the price of a new Saxo or C3 off the top of my head, if a customer asked, without referring to a quarterly sales campaign leaflet that was around 6 pages thick.
Cazoo are used cars though? You seem to be talking about new?The dealer is still working within the parameters of the mostly small dealer margin that they have.
A manufacturer will tweak and adjust these incentives normally on a quarterly basis, obviously dependent on sales.
Citroen were and probably still are the worst for this.
New model comes out, RRPs quoted, certain incentives for finance, and test drives etc, then just as you have got your head around the myriad of differing offers on different specs and options, they then a month later change it all, including the base line RRPs, as sales dont meet their expectations.
And on it goes, until the RRP, basically is irrelevant, and the offers they keep throwing at you, and constantly changing, makes it impossible to keep ahead of.
I remember when I worked for Citroen up until 2009, I couldn't tell you the price of a new Saxo or C3 off the top of my head, if a customer asked, without referring to a quarterly sales campaign leaflet that was around 6 pages thick.
Deep Thought said:
pavarotti1980 said:
Justin Case said:
Cazoo are now sponsoring Aston Villa. Villa are in the premier league but dangerously near the relegation zone. Read into that what you will 
And Everton too. £10m per season if reports are true 
Whilst we're waiting for the money to run out (wont take long at that rate).
Heres an article from 2009 hailing Auto Quake as the Next Big Thing for providing internet sales of used cars, with a No Quibble 7 day cooling off period.
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2009/jun/27/used...
And heres a story of them folding 2 years later..
https://www.which.co.uk/news/2011/03/massive-onlin...
Carzam will be the new outfit to watch. Backed by smart, proven operators.
Throttlebody said:
We’re now in 2020. Lessons have been learnt. Consumers have embraced e-commerce.
Carzam will be the new outfit to watch. Backed by smart, proven operators.
By charging £1,500 more than the cheapestcar from a main franchised dealer?Carzam will be the new outfit to watch. Backed by smart, proven operators.
How do you think that will pan out in a price driven market?
Deep Thought said:
Throttlebody said:
We’re now in 2020. Lessons have been learnt. Consumers have embraced e-commerce.
Carzam will be the new outfit to watch. Backed by smart, proven operators.
By charging £1,500 more than the cheapestcar from a main franchised dealer?Carzam will be the new outfit to watch. Backed by smart, proven operators.
How do you think that will pan out in a price driven market?
Butter Face said:
Throttlebody said:
We’re now in 2020. Lessons have been learnt. Consumers have embraced e-commerce.
Carzam will be the new outfit to watch. Backed by smart, proven operators.
Would two of those ‘smart, proven operators’ be Clive Colyer and Gavin Smith? (Both from Dealer-Auction)Carzam will be the new outfit to watch. Backed by smart, proven operators.
Throttlebody said:
Butter Face said:
Throttlebody said:
We’re now in 2020. Lessons have been learnt. Consumers have embraced e-commerce.
Carzam will be the new outfit to watch. Backed by smart, proven operators.
Would two of those ‘smart, proven operators’ be Clive Colyer and Gavin Smith? (Both from Dealer-Auction)Carzam will be the new outfit to watch. Backed by smart, proven operators.
Butter Face said:
Throttlebody said:
We’re now in 2020. Lessons have been learnt. Consumers have embraced e-commerce.
Carzam will be the new outfit to watch. Backed by smart, proven operators.
Would two of those ‘smart, proven operators’ be Clive Colyer and Gavin Smith? (Both from Dealer-Auction)Carzam will be the new outfit to watch. Backed by smart, proven operators.
) as they appear to based in Kent. Has anyone any experience of them, we might then be able to see if Carzam will turn the trade upside downJustin Case said:
Butter Face said:
Throttlebody said:
We’re now in 2020. Lessons have been learnt. Consumers have embraced e-commerce.
Carzam will be the new outfit to watch. Backed by smart, proven operators.
Would two of those ‘smart, proven operators’ be Clive Colyer and Gavin Smith? (Both from Dealer-Auction)Carzam will be the new outfit to watch. Backed by smart, proven operators.
) as they appear to based in Kent. Has anyone any experience of them, we might then be able to see if Carzam will turn the trade upside downBoth of them were the very smart chaps behind Dealer-Auction, just wondering if TB knows why they are no longer directors, he knows enough about the company to say they’re gonna be the ones to watch!
Throttlebody said:
Deep Thought said:
Throttlebody said:
We’re now in 2020. Lessons have been learnt. Consumers have embraced e-commerce.
Carzam will be the new outfit to watch. Backed by smart, proven operators.
By charging £1,500 more than the cheapestcar from a main franchised dealer?Carzam will be the new outfit to watch. Backed by smart, proven operators.
How do you think that will pan out in a price driven market?
Justin Case said:
Carzam has been started by the duo behind Big Motoring World supermarket and will be sharing their preparation centre, which should keep overheads and capital expenditure down. I know nothing about BMW (no not that one ) as they appear to based in Kent. Has anyone any experience of them, we might then be able to see if Carzam will turn the trade upside down
They effectively are a car supermarket focusing on predominantly used BMWs. Quite cheap, not the cheapest. Cars dont seem to get much preparation. Price and attitude is pretty much "take it or leave it" from what i'm hearing. ) as they appear to based in Kent. Has anyone any experience of them, we might then be able to see if Carzam will turn the trade upside downReviews here give you an indication of how they operate...
https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.bigmotoringwo...
BUT they sell a lot of cars.
If they can add a delivery model to that it might work. I've considered buying a car off them before and just arranging to have it transported over here, or picking it up myself and driving it home.
Deep Thought said:
They effectively are a car supermarket focusing on predominantly used BMWs. Quite cheap, not the cheapest. Cars dont seem to get much preparation. Price and attitude is pretty much "take it or leave it" from what i'm hearing.
Reviews here give you an indication of how they operate...
https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.bigmotoringwo...
BUT they sell a lot of cars.
If they can add a delivery model to that it might work. I've considered buying a car off them before and just arranging to have it transported over here, or picking it up myself and driving it home.
The fact they don’t take credit cards for even part of the payment means I’d never even consider them, Credit cards give you extra protection as a buyer when the seller doesn’t help (which seems to be how they operate).Reviews here give you an indication of how they operate...
https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.bigmotoringwo...
BUT they sell a lot of cars.
If they can add a delivery model to that it might work. I've considered buying a car off them before and just arranging to have it transported over here, or picking it up myself and driving it home.
Throttlebody said:
Another new player entering the market will be Carzam. A new venture backed by the Big Motoring World.
Big investment, bold claims to capture a large slice of the used car market via seamless and quick online sales. They will be popular with the many that find playing the traditional ‘salesman’s game’ distasteful.
Big Motoring World? What can possibly go wrong....Big investment, bold claims to capture a large slice of the used car market via seamless and quick online sales. They will be popular with the many that find playing the traditional ‘salesman’s game’ distasteful.
Only a small minority of low EQ type people find it difficult to interact with a salesperson. They may be the same people who then irrationally tar an entire demographic with the same brush online.
Personnaly, I have never struggled to get what I wanted out of a salesperson, but then again I wasn't looking for a long term relationship.
Edited by nickfrog on Monday 6th July 12:59
theclutch said:
Mexman said:
theclutch said:
Mexman said:
Totally different to a mechanically complicated, used item such as a car, that sits outside in hostile conditions, heat, cold, snow, rain etc.
The 7 day, no quibble returns policy with Cazoo will be their downfall.
The costs involved in preparing the car, delivering it, collecting it back, re prepping it etc, will be a disaster.
These are used cars, give a member of the public an inch and they will take a mile.
Aren't you a car dealer? You do realise that a customer has the legal right to return a vehicle if sale transacted off premises for 14 days?The 7 day, no quibble returns policy with Cazoo will be their downfall.
The costs involved in preparing the car, delivering it, collecting it back, re prepping it etc, will be a disaster.
These are used cars, give a member of the public an inch and they will take a mile.
That's why, we do not offer delivery or get involved with long distance selling.
More hassle than it's worth, on used cars.
It blows my mind that you dont know this as a 'professional's car dealer.
Regarding your approach - you may be fine for now but if the market changes the market changes. Adapt or become irrelevant.
Edited by theclutch on Friday 3rd July 21:13
Edited by Graveworm on Monday 6th July 13:01
nickfrog said:
Big Motoring World? What can possibly go wrong....
Only a small minority of low EQ type people find it difficult to interact with a salesperson. They may be the same people who then irrationally tar an entire demographic with the same brush online.
Personnaly, I have never struggled to get what I wanted out of a salesperson, but then again I wasn't looking for a long term relationship.
More research required on Big Motoring World dude. Highly successful business.Only a small minority of low EQ type people find it difficult to interact with a salesperson. They may be the same people who then irrationally tar an entire demographic with the same brush online.
Personnaly, I have never struggled to get what I wanted out of a salesperson, but then again I wasn't looking for a long term relationship.
Edited by nickfrog on Monday 6th July 12:59
Throttlebody said:
nickfrog said:
Big Motoring World? What can possibly go wrong....
Only a small minority of low EQ type people find it difficult to interact with a salesperson. They may be the same people who then irrationally tar an entire demographic with the same brush online.
Personnaly, I have never struggled to get what I wanted out of a salesperson, but then again I wasn't looking for a long term relationship.
More research required on Big Motoring World dude. Highly successful business.Only a small minority of low EQ type people find it difficult to interact with a salesperson. They may be the same people who then irrationally tar an entire demographic with the same brush online.
Personnaly, I have never struggled to get what I wanted out of a salesperson, but then again I wasn't looking for a long term relationship.
Edited by nickfrog on Monday 6th July 12:59
https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.bigmotoringwo...
I'm actually very surprised, given your irrational hatred of car dealers and how they treat people, how you've rated a car sales business purely based on profitability?
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