"The end of haggling with a used-car salesman" ?

[Deep Thought]

Throttlebody said:

Another new player entering the market will be Carzam. A new venture backed by the Big Motoring World.

Big investment, bold claims to capture a large slice of the used car market via seamless and quick online sales. They will be popular with the many that find playing the traditional ‘salesman’s game’ distasteful.

Its been quite possible to buy a new or used car online from a dealer without any need to visit a showroom for many years now.

Very few do.

[cailean]

The sooner that there is no need to deal with dishonest car salesmen the better...bring it on!

[Deep Thought]

Went to their website. Genuinely the first car i looked at.

2019 BMW 330i M Sport, auto - £27,450.

https://www.cazoo.co.uk/used-car/931d58e6-3121-5af...

2019 BMW 330i M Sport, auto from a franchised BMW dealer for £26,000

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...

And thats before you try to negotiate with the BMW dealer.

OK, you might say, but thats somewhere hundreds of miles away, and Cazoo will deliver.

This is my local BMW dealer - i've used them many times before. £27,000 before any negotiation. I could ring them in the morning, pay their asking price on condition they drive it up the road to me park it in my driveway and drop the keys through my letterbox and they'd bite my hand off and i'd STILL be £450 better off compared to Cazoo.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...

Why on earth would i pay someone to bring me a car off of the back of a van, when i can buy a franchised, warranted car delivered to my door anyway for significantly less?

Edited by Deep Thought on Friday 3rd July 22:43

Edited by Deep Thought on Friday 3rd July 22:44

[Deep Thought]

cailean said:

The sooner that there is no need to deal with dishonest car salesmen the better...bring it on!

Firstly, how do you know these people - hiding behind a website, probably operating out of a unit in an industrial estate that you'll never visit and whom you'll never meet - are honest?

Secondly, you've been able to buy a used car even from a franchised main dealer without having to deal with a car salesman for years. You can buy one without having to darken a showroom door.

What are these guys therefore offering, given their cars seem more expensive? Whos going to pay more for less?

[av185]

cailean said:

The sooner that there is no need to deal with dishonest car salesmen the better...bring it on!

Agreed.

But the majority of car sales guys who are honest are great to deal with.

[Deep Thought]

av185 said:

cailean said:

The sooner that there is no need to deal with dishonest car salesmen the better...bring it on!

Agreed.

But the majority of car sales guys who are honest are great to deal with.

+1

I've never bought a car from a dishonest salesman.

Edited by Deep Thought on Friday 3rd July 22:50

[cailean]

I didn't say these were the answer did I? I said the day will come, soon hopefully because the majority of dealers will do anything to rip you off or upsell. Yes they do seem slightly more expensive but economies of scale and similar competition will soon sort that out.

[Deep Thought]

cailean said:

I didn't say these were the answer did I? I said the day will come, soon hopefully because the majority of dealers will do anything to rip you off or upsell. Yes they do seem slightly more expensive but economies of scale and similar competition will soon sort that out.

You're genuinely doing something badly wrong if your dealership experiences have led you to the conclusion that the majority of dealers out there will do anything to rip you off. What recent personal experiences has led you to this conclusion?

And upselling is part of sales. Amazon do it, Argos do it, Currys do it, your insurance company does it.... just politely say no thanks.

Edited by Deep Thought on Saturday 4th July 00:13

Edited by Deep Thought on Saturday 4th July 00:14

[Mexman]

theclutch said:

No, the customer can return the car within 14 days regardless of fault or not. If they decide they dont like the colour, they are legally entitled to return.

It blows my mind that you dont know this as a 'professional's car dealer.

Regarding your approach - you may be fine for now but if the market changes the market changes. Adapt or become irrelevant.

Edited by theclutch on Friday 3rd July 21:13

Of course I know this, but a lot of consumers dont.
Cazoo openly offering this will cause them pain, read my post, I am not Interested in doing on line, delivery only sales, not worth the grief and hassle.
You can buy the car on line, but you come and collect it, simple.
Dont want to do that?, then no sale, thanks.

[Mexman]

cailean said:

The sooner that there is no need to deal with dishonest car salesmen the better...bring it on!

I find your recent posts offensive.
If you think we are all dishonest, unscrupulous and liers, then you crack on and carry on buying your fleet of st privately, or online, buying overpriced and blind from Cazoo etc, it matters not to most traders on here.
And even if you did visit us dealers in person, I can imagine, with your kind of attitude showing through from the initial meeting, any decent salesperson is going to see right through you and dismiss you as a potential nightmare either immediately or in the future.
We do not have to sell to everyone, sometimes your gut instinct tell you not to bother, even if they are waving a fist full of cash under your nose.
Not all business is good business, and with an attitude like yours, I can guarantee, any deal on the table will be heavily weighted in my favour rather than yours, call it a wker tax, if you like.

Edited by Mexman on Saturday 4th July 05:11

[Throttlebody]

Deep Thought said:

Throttlebody said:

Coincidentally, The Telegraph have run a similar theme article, ‘Death of a car salesman’. Seems a popular topic fuelled by the online buying surge -

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/07/02/de...

The online buying surge lasted approx 2 months. Any dealer feedback i've seen has said that online sales have dropped back to practically zero again now that people can again go see the cars they may wish to buy.

The reference was to the general surge and shift to e-commerce.

[Throttlebody]

Some new big and well funded players are entering the used click and collect market and manufacturers are rapidly expanding their own capability to capture that growing market.

Understandably, traditional car sale salesmen are finding this a bit challenging as their role and influence continues to be slowly eroded.

[Camelot1971]

cailean said:

The sooner that there is no need to deal with dishonest car buyers and sellers the better...bring it on!

Fixed that for you.

[hyphen]

Justin Case said:

Perhaps 'death of a car showroom' would be a more apt title. I looked at two cars last year that I found on Autotrader. Both were in farm outbuildings in the middle of nowhere and otherwise were very professional, although one was meet the dealer in the next town and follow him to his barn ! Why bother with plate glass showrooms, receptionists and business managers, when a one-man band with a tame mechanic and possibly a valeter on call can provide an excellent service with minimal overheads. I can see this model becoming more common, especially as I would guess that most people initially look for their next car by means of the internet, even if they don't actually buy online. Anyway, to keep on topic, does this mean lower prices or bigger profits?

I don't want to visit farm outbuildings in the middle of nowhere. I certainly do not want to meet some random bloke in the next town and follow him to his barn.

I'd rather pay a bit more in consideration of the sellers overheads.

WTF.

[hyphen]

PistonAFC said:

WonkeyDonkey said:

But amazon were lucky to be quick to a new market. They offered a more efficient way to purchase everything usually at a lower price than every other retailer. Besides, Amazon's retail side is just small piece of their income compared to AWS.

Cazoo is entering an already saturated market where their only USP is that they deliver. Since coronavirus I've seen a lot more retailers offer delivery. They aren't cheaper than other places and they don't offer anywhere near the variety that Evans Halshaw or Arnold Clark do, let alone Auto trader.

There have been many of these new car marketplaces in the past, each one fails quite quick as they don't offer the ease and quantity that Autotrader does, and they don't offer the low cost of advertisement that Facebook, gumtree or eBay do.

Amazon started with just books in a ssaturated market and ppl wondered how they would survive, and for a long time they lost money but just look at them now. Some of these things like Uber are the same, now they are losing money but it won't be that way for ever

Things have changed.

Early investors are not looking for the company to make money, they are looking to pump it up and make their money out of an IPO.


Cazoo has had a small amount if investment, "at a valuation of £1bn". It's just made up. Guy behind it is a known successful entrepreneur so Im sure it will keep going.

[Deep Thought]

Throttlebody said:

Deep Thought said:

Throttlebody said:

Coincidentally, The Telegraph have run a similar theme article, ‘Death of a car salesman’. Seems a popular topic fuelled by the online buying surge -

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/07/02/de...

The online buying surge lasted approx 2 months. Any dealer feedback i've seen has said that online sales have dropped back to practically zero again now that people can again go see the cars they may wish to buy.

The reference was to the general surge and shift to e-commerce.

The reference specifically states "Death of a car salesman".

[Deep Thought]

Throttlebody said:

Some new big and well funded players are entering the used click and collect market and manufacturers are rapidly expanding their own capability to capture that growing market.

Understandably, traditional car sale salesmen are finding this a bit challenging as their role and influence continues to be slowly eroded.

Click and collect will always be a minority activity, particularly with used cars. People time and time again have proven that particularly with used cars people do not want to not have actual sight of the car until they've paid for it and are picking it up.

Manufacturers ARENT rapidly expanding their own capability - they predominantly operate through franchises. They do not want direct sales as they have neither the time nor capability to deal directly with them. Nor is it their purpose to. Most "But it Now" capability on manufacturers website just sends the order to your nearest franchised dealer anyway for managing and fulfilling it.

Car salesmen ARENT finding it a bit challenging. Its a tiny market and ultimately there is still engagement with a sales person at some point anyway. If it evolves to the point whereby its an administrator or a non sales person doing it then fine. That allows those committed to sales to focus on doing that.

Click and Collect or Click and Deliver is fraught with problems. It comes as no surprise to me that this new "no haggle" service is already significantly more expensive than buying the same car even from a franchised main dealer. I think people will very quickly see through it and simply buy the car cheaper locally anyway. Why would anyone pay up to £1,500 more in my 330i example for a "no haggle" service? Seems a bizarre concept.

[Deep Thought]

hyphen said:

Things have changed.

Early investors are not looking for the company to make money, they are looking to pump it up and make their money out of an IPO.


Cazoo has had a small amount if investment, "at a valuation of £1bn". It's just made up. Guy behind it is a known successful entrepreneur so Im sure it will keep going.

[Throttlebody]

Deep Thought said:

Throttlebody said:

Deep Thought said:

Throttlebody said:

Coincidentally, The Telegraph have run a similar theme article, ‘Death of a car salesman’. Seems a popular topic fuelled by the online buying surge -

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/07/02/de...

The online buying surge lasted approx 2 months. Any dealer feedback i've seen has said that online sales have dropped back to practically zero again now that people can again go see the cars they may wish to buy.

The reference was to the general surge and shift to e-commerce.

The reference specifically states "Death of a car salesman".

Correct. But your reply incorrectly highlighted ‘online buying surge’ which is a wider and increasing consume trend - including car click and collect.

Also, click and collect hasn’t dropped to ‘practically zero’. Another of your imaginations. It’s an increasing trend.

[Deep Thought]

Throttlebody said:

Correct. But your reply incorrectly highlighted ‘online buying surge’ which is a wider and increasing consume trend - including car click and collect.

Also, click and collect hasn’t dropped to ‘practically zero’. Another of your imaginations. It’s an increasing trend.

Relative to cars it has - which is what this thread is about.

Any feedback from salesmen suggest its dropped back to practically zero again. People inherently do not want their sight of a used car to be after they've paid for it.

And theres an easy adjustment that a lot of dealers are already doing. First dealer group i looked at - Sytners - are offering it if people want to

https://www.sytner.co.uk/news/click-and-collect/

All 8,000+ of their cars have Click and Collect options.

Your problem (well one of) is that you think dealers cant / wont evolve. They do and they will. Why would anyone buy from Cazoo based in some industrial estate somewhere when you can buy an Approved Used car from a franchised dealer for between £££s and £,£££s less and either do Click and Collect or have them deliver it to you anyway.

Car selling is multi channel. Theres a small niche maybe for what they're doing but its neither evolutionary, revolutionary nor a disruptor.