BMW M140i vs Golf R. Which is best for Britain and tuning?
Discussion
QuattroDave said:
it was the M2 that felt more special. being that bit smaller it was more fun to drive and had more sense of occasion about it. But both M2 & M4's that I tried were S55 (based on N55) whilst the M140i uses the B58, worth considering as they are different in their character.
That's interesting it's based on the N55, I didn't know that 
I really don't know how to feel about the N55, I think the sound is great but I'm seeing quite a few failures at the moment, having said this, are the failures in relation to poor maintenance? Quite Possibly. I think if you can find a 63 reg onwards M135i it's a great car for the money and if tuning is your thing and you want around 420bhp it's probably the best car for the money on the market. But knowing me I'd want to go further than that in future so I don't think I'll ever go for an N55 engined car.
I don't hear many issues from S55s though? Maybe there are but I don't hear of them. B58 had earlier issues but I think the filter issues have been sorted now. I know there's a few other things that have caused issues but overall I think that block is reasonably bulletproof. I know the guys at 700-800bhp are forging their engines just for safety. But me personally I'd never go for that kind of power because at the end of the day, it's still a 1 series and I'll never get to use that kind of power on the road
Glenn63 said:
M140 seems to be the go to for the tuning boys at the moment. Small cheap(ish) hatch that can easily get 600+ bhp for relatively cheap.
Yeah I can't think of a better car and engine combination for the price at the moment. From around 340bhp standard up to over 400bhp on just a remap is nuts. To put it into perspective, to get 400bhp out of a golf R you'll need a map, exhaust ( cat and system ), intake , intercooler is heavily recommend and if you've got a manual R a clutch will be cruicial. All of these parts can easily cost £2000. I can't remember if I've said it in this forum before but to get 500bhp from a Golf R you need to budget for around £10,000 if you're going for new, high-quality parts and not fitting things yourself. I remember watching a DMO video and the M140 in it was the fastest in the UK at the time. The engine mods were around £8000 so you could in theory have a much faster car for less. However, the increase in cost of buying an M140 over an R may offset the modification cost.
Dylanaledhall said:
Glenn63 said:
M140 seems to be the go to for the tuning boys at the moment. Small cheap(ish) hatch that can easily get 600+ bhp for relatively cheap.
Yeah I can't think of a better car and engine combination for the price at the moment. From around 340bhp standard up to over 400bhp on just a remap is nuts. To put it into perspective, to get 400bhp out of a golf R you'll need a map, exhaust ( cat and system ), intake , intercooler is heavily recommend and if you've got a manual R a clutch will be cruicial. All of these parts can easily cost 2000. I can't remember if I've said it in this forum before but to get 500bhp from a Golf R you need to budget for around 10,000 if you're going for new, high-quality parts and not fitting things yourself. I remember watching a DMO video and the M140 in it was the fastest in the UK at the time. The engine mods were around 8000 so you could in theory have a much faster car for less. However, the increase in cost of buying an M140 over an R may offset the modification cost.
Pistonheader101 said:
Dylanaledhall said:
Glenn63 said:
M140 seems to be the go to for the tuning boys at the moment. Small cheap(ish) hatch that can easily get 600+ bhp for relatively cheap.
Yeah I can't think of a better car and engine combination for the price at the moment. From around 340bhp standard up to over 400bhp on just a remap is nuts. To put it into perspective, to get 400bhp out of a golf R you'll need a map, exhaust ( cat and system ), intake , intercooler is heavily recommend and if you've got a manual R a clutch will be cruicial. All of these parts can easily cost 2000. I can't remember if I've said it in this forum before but to get 500bhp from a Golf R you need to budget for around 10,000 if you're going for new, high-quality parts and not fitting things yourself. I remember watching a DMO video and the M140 in it was the fastest in the UK at the time. The engine mods were around 8000 so you could in theory have a much faster car for less. However, the increase in cost of buying an M140 over an R may offset the modification cost.
My friend had one (stage 2 I think they called it) at around 480bhp and it just didn’t work very well except on a dry day on a good surface in a straight line.
Money isn’t well spent on more power until the handling/traction issues are addressed other than for pub bragging rights. I always wished they bought the x-drive model to the U.K. as it would have been well suited here.
The Golf R is a far faster car than the M140i most of the time thanks to its very well sorted chassis/suspension and AWD. I prefer the BMW (which is why I kept it for a couple of years) but if speed is your thing which I think is the case with discussions around stages then the Golf is the car to buy.
I think the Golf is pretty boring dynamically because it’s so well sorted until you get to higher power levels where it moves around under power. I always felt the same with Impreza’s they were too well sorted at factory power levels and had a tendency to understeer so didn’t feel very engaging to drive even though they were fast compared to other cars in the earlier generations (they fell far behind the competition on many levels in the later generation cars).
Scobblelotcher said:
The things is though with an M135i/40i the engine can achieve those numbers easily enough but in many real world driving conditions the car will be slower than a standard model because of the traction issues. I owned one for a few years and they are fun but are not well sorted from a chassis/suspension/grip
My friend had one (stage 2 I think they called it) at around 480bhp and it just didn’t work very well except on a dry day on a good surface in a straight line.
Money isn’t well spent on more power until the handling/traction issues are addressed other than for pub bragging rights. I always wished they bought the x-drive model to the U.K. as it would have been well suited here.
The Golf R is a far faster car than the M140i most of the time thanks to its very well sorted chassis/suspension and AWD. I prefer the BMW (which is why I kept it for a couple of years) but if speed is your thing which I think is the case with discussions around stages then the Golf is the car to buy.
I think the Golf is pretty boring dynamically because it’s so well sorted until you get to higher power levels where it moves around under power. I always felt the same with Impreza’s they were too well sorted at factory power levels and had a tendency to understeer so didn’t feel very engaging to drive even though they were fast compared to other cars in the earlier generations (they fell far behind the competition on many levels in the later generation cars).
The Golf really frustrated me, because it's really the car I wanted over the 140. I preferred the inside of the Golf and the car is much better looking than the 1 series. But on the road it just didn't really feel like it had any shove at all. Really disappointing. Like you say, on a twisty road/ a wet day the Golf will be the faster car hands down. My friend had one (stage 2 I think they called it) at around 480bhp and it just didn’t work very well except on a dry day on a good surface in a straight line.
Money isn’t well spent on more power until the handling/traction issues are addressed other than for pub bragging rights. I always wished they bought the x-drive model to the U.K. as it would have been well suited here.
The Golf R is a far faster car than the M140i most of the time thanks to its very well sorted chassis/suspension and AWD. I prefer the BMW (which is why I kept it for a couple of years) but if speed is your thing which I think is the case with discussions around stages then the Golf is the car to buy.
I think the Golf is pretty boring dynamically because it’s so well sorted until you get to higher power levels where it moves around under power. I always felt the same with Impreza’s they were too well sorted at factory power levels and had a tendency to understeer so didn’t feel very engaging to drive even though they were fast compared to other cars in the earlier generations (they fell far behind the competition on many levels in the later generation cars).
But like I've already said, I haven't really stopped thinking about that 140 since driving it, the Golf I haven't really thought about. I think if I went out in a stage 2 one it might sway it slightly towards it but standard 140 vs stage 1 Golf R, the 140 was so much faster on the road. The Golf felt similar to my stage 2 ST which is why I was so disappointed.
I was smiling the whole time behind the wheel of the 140, I wasn't smiling in the Golf. I think that says it all really. I'm happy for a Golf to leave me in the wet, I never drive quickly in the damp as it is. Don't get me wrong I'll turn the ESP off in the ST to get a bit more spin coming off of roundabouts but that's just for enjoyment, I guess I'm just very disciplined
But yeah, handling would be high up on my priority list when it comes to purchasing a 140 ( arms, springs, struts, brace etc). The only things that I noticed on the test-drive 'handling-wise' was the front didn't have as much 'bite' as my ST and the brakes were no where near as good but were progressive so I guess it's something I'd need to adapt to or I'd need beefier pads and upgraded disks.
The golf being faster of the line etc is good but is what makes it more boring imo.
Iv sorted the chassis on my m140 with Bilsteins, chassis brace, polly bushes, m4 lca’s and it handles the power no problem. If it’s wet it will struggle on full power off the line as would any rear drive car, even of track you have to be trying to provoke it to get it sideways.
Iv got waiting to go on a sports cat down pipe, fuel pump, and once remapped it should be around the 480bhp mark and that’s about £1k all in.
With that power it may be handful again and an LSD will be next on the list.
Iv sorted the chassis on my m140 with Bilsteins, chassis brace, polly bushes, m4 lca’s and it handles the power no problem. If it’s wet it will struggle on full power off the line as would any rear drive car, even of track you have to be trying to provoke it to get it sideways.
Iv got waiting to go on a sports cat down pipe, fuel pump, and once remapped it should be around the 480bhp mark and that’s about £1k all in.
With that power it may be handful again and an LSD will be next on the list.
Dylanaledhall said:
Scobblelotcher said:
The things is though with an M135i/40i the engine can achieve those numbers easily enough but in many real world driving conditions the car will be slower than a standard model because of the traction issues. I owned one for a few years and they are fun but are not well sorted from a chassis/suspension/grip
My friend had one (stage 2 I think they called it) at around 480bhp and it just didn’t work very well except on a dry day on a good surface in a straight line.
Money isn’t well spent on more power until the handling/traction issues are addressed other than for pub bragging rights. I always wished they bought the x-drive model to the U.K. as it would have been well suited here.
The Golf R is a far faster car than the M140i most of the time thanks to its very well sorted chassis/suspension and AWD. I prefer the BMW (which is why I kept it for a couple of years) but if speed is your thing which I think is the case with discussions around stages then the Golf is the car to buy.
I think the Golf is pretty boring dynamically because it’s so well sorted until you get to higher power levels where it moves around under power. I always felt the same with Impreza’s they were too well sorted at factory power levels and had a tendency to understeer so didn’t feel very engaging to drive even though they were fast compared to other cars in the earlier generations (they fell far behind the competition on many levels in the later generation cars).
The Golf really frustrated me, because it's really the car I wanted over the 140. I preferred the inside of the Golf and the car is much better looking than the 1 series. But on the road it just didn't really feel like it had any shove at all. Really disappointing. Like you say, on a twisty road/ a wet day the Golf will be the faster car hands down. My friend had one (stage 2 I think they called it) at around 480bhp and it just didn’t work very well except on a dry day on a good surface in a straight line.
Money isn’t well spent on more power until the handling/traction issues are addressed other than for pub bragging rights. I always wished they bought the x-drive model to the U.K. as it would have been well suited here.
The Golf R is a far faster car than the M140i most of the time thanks to its very well sorted chassis/suspension and AWD. I prefer the BMW (which is why I kept it for a couple of years) but if speed is your thing which I think is the case with discussions around stages then the Golf is the car to buy.
I think the Golf is pretty boring dynamically because it’s so well sorted until you get to higher power levels where it moves around under power. I always felt the same with Impreza’s they were too well sorted at factory power levels and had a tendency to understeer so didn’t feel very engaging to drive even though they were fast compared to other cars in the earlier generations (they fell far behind the competition on many levels in the later generation cars).
But like I've already said, I haven't really stopped thinking about that 140 since driving it, the Golf I haven't really thought about. I think if I went out in a stage 2 one it might sway it slightly towards it but standard 140 vs stage 1 Golf R, the 140 was so much faster on the road. The Golf felt similar to my stage 2 ST which is why I was so disappointed.
I was smiling the whole time behind the wheel of the 140, I wasn't smiling in the Golf. I think that says it all really. I'm happy for a Golf to leave me in the wet, I never drive quickly in the damp as it is. Don't get me wrong I'll turn the ESP off in the ST to get a bit more spin coming off of roundabouts but that's just for enjoyment, I guess I'm just very disciplined
But yeah, handling would be high up on my priority list when it comes to purchasing a 140 ( arms, springs, struts, brace etc). The only things that I noticed on the test-drive 'handling-wise' was the front didn't have as much 'bite' as my ST and the brakes were no where near as good but were progressive so I guess it's something I'd need to adapt to or I'd need beefier pads and upgraded disks.
The M140i is by comparison is nowhere near as fast or as effective but it can be fun and requires the driver to moderate inputs and drive the car as foot to the floor stuff results in going nowhere or spinning most of the time. Many have been parked backwards into solid objects if the driver hasn't given the car respect. I do really like this as many modern AWD cars really do most of the work for the driver. I do feel though even with updated suspension the cars just aren't capable of effectively managing that thumping engine but they do behave better so it's less of an issue.
The M135i/140i are also really good GT cars and when you're on the way to work, just put it in drive and it's quiet, comfortable and shifts under a light throttle so gently it barely feels like it's changing gear which is nice.
I'm glad BMW did put the engine into the car like it's predecessor (130i) and we aren't likely to see many or any small cars in this type of package in the future.
Glenn63 said:
The golf being faster of the line etc is good but is what makes it more boring imo.
Iv sorted the chassis on my m140 with Bilsteins, chassis brace, polly bushes, m4 lca’s and it handles the power no problem. If it’s wet it will struggle on full power off the line as would any rear drive car, even of track you have to be trying to provoke it to get it sideways.
Iv got waiting to go on a sports cat down pipe, fuel pump, and once remapped it should be around the 480bhp mark and that’s about £1k all in.
With that power it may be handful again and an LSD will be next on the list.
To be honest I would like another go in another R, because I really want to give it the benefit of the doubt. Iv sorted the chassis on my m140 with Bilsteins, chassis brace, polly bushes, m4 lca’s and it handles the power no problem. If it’s wet it will struggle on full power off the line as would any rear drive car, even of track you have to be trying to provoke it to get it sideways.
Iv got waiting to go on a sports cat down pipe, fuel pump, and once remapped it should be around the 480bhp mark and that’s about £1k all in.
With that power it may be handful again and an LSD will be next on the list.
Although it would handle miles better than the 140, I happen to own a hot hatch that is hailed as one of the best for handling and I don't really get to make use of it day-to-day. My commute is about 5-10 minutes town driving and then I'm basically on a single carriageway 50-60mph linked with some roundabouts. Of course I would be addressing the handling of the 140 because I live within some lovely mountain roads but daily driving I would be more dependent on straight line speed rather than cornering ability (I'd still want that LSD though). I may be changing jobs soon too which may require me to go via the M4 motorway therefore I still would prioritize straight line over cornering ability
Dylanaledhall said:
To be honest I would like another go in another R, because I really want to give it the benefit of the doubt.
Although it would handle miles better than the 140, I happen to own a hot hatch that is hailed as one of the best for handling and I don't really get to make use of it day-to-day. My commute is about 5-10 minutes town driving and then I'm basically on a single carriageway 50-60mph linked with some roundabouts. Of course I would be addressing the handling of the 140 because I live within some lovely mountain roads but daily driving I would be more dependent on straight line speed rather than cornering ability (I'd still want that LSD though). I may be changing jobs soon too which may require me to go via the M4 motorway therefore I still would prioritize straight line over cornering ability
What is your current hot hatch then?Although it would handle miles better than the 140, I happen to own a hot hatch that is hailed as one of the best for handling and I don't really get to make use of it day-to-day. My commute is about 5-10 minutes town driving and then I'm basically on a single carriageway 50-60mph linked with some roundabouts. Of course I would be addressing the handling of the 140 because I live within some lovely mountain roads but daily driving I would be more dependent on straight line speed rather than cornering ability (I'd still want that LSD though). I may be changing jobs soon too which may require me to go via the M4 motorway therefore I still would prioritize straight line over cornering ability
M.F.D said:
What is your current hot hatch then?
I have a Mk7 Fiesta ST. Few bits done to it, upgraded brakes, intercooler, intake, crossover pipe, Milltek exhaust with a sports cat, stripped out rear ( did have a splitter until I went through a puddle during Storm Eunice and half of it got ripped off ). Should be around 240/ 250bhp. I haven't done much to it recently because I've just bought my first home. Hopefully I'll be at a different job soon with a bit of a higher salary to finish the car off. Next mods will be lowering springs ( about 35mm ) a new splitter and then I can proceed with performance mods; I'm aiming for around 300bhp. If you're interested I have a thread on the car if you want a browse let me know Golf R every time. If you intend going to serious power - Stage 3 or 4 - and using/abusing the car then the Golf is the only choice. The BMW is a good car, but the handling is only so-so meaning that is another upgrade. Rwd and big power all year round? Nah, be realistic this is the UK, not the south of France.
popeyewhite said:
Golf R every time. If you intend going to serious power - Stage 3 or 4 - and using/abusing the car then the Golf is the only choice. The BMW is a good car, but the handling is only so-so meaning that is another upgrade. Rwd and big power all year round? Nah, be realistic this is the UK, not the south of France.
Fair point, I do miss how my Dad's Focus RS used to just stick to the road, was a beast in that regard so I can only assume the golf would feel similar once you're on the twisties. And as you've said, come rain or shine that car will be one of the fastest cars on the UK roads when you've modified it. However, I am looking for a daily car but something that will be fun as well. The Golf is a great car but is flawed in the most crucial area which is enjoyment. You've pointed out that the BMW will need handling mods which is very true, but the Golf will need to be stage 2 or 3 to be anywhere near as joyful and that I can assure you will cost more than the handling mods on the 140.
A hot hatch shouldn't need 400-500 bhp to be exciting. The M140 was exciting standard and the Stage 1 Golf R felt really "flat". But even still, I've heard people say stage 3 Golf Rs are still quite "robotic" stupidly fast yet don't offer much excitement. In addition to this, the 140 has really good traction, I was impressed by how much it had when I drove it.
The Golf's issue is, it does everything so well you sort of want it to do something that challenges you as a driver. This is why the cupras are popular with people that are into the MQB platform and EA888 engine - the cupra, although traction limited, is a much more engaging and fun car - not to mention faster on a roll. I did consider one of these but I think traction would be an issue up until the legal speed limit and then by the time you've got grip you'll probably be at licence-loosing speed
But jokes aside, the Golf is an extremely capable and pleasurable car to drive, however, the M140 appeals to me a lot more on a personal level and I think it has a lot more potential than the Golf does. I think If you could get a decent R for around £13k that would certainly sway it in it's favour, but until then I think given the fact both R and M140i are similar in terms of price, the M140i offers so much more car for your money imo
Ah,I hadn't seen your budget: The newish Golf R handles very well indeed, but at triple your price? £13k Golf R or 140i isn't really an option anyway is it? I was looking last year and a decent 140 or 240 was at least £17k. Personally I thought the BMW was a nicer package than the Golf....but with big power and usability the Golf just pips it. You have to decide what factor stops the boredom creeping in...with me it's waay too much power, pointless in a little RWD BM.
popeyewhite said:
Golf R every time. If you intend going to serious power - Stage 3 or 4 - and using/abusing the car then the Golf is the only choice. The BMW is a good car, but the handling is only so-so meaning that is another upgrade. Rwd and big power all year round? Nah, be realistic this is the UK, not the south of France.
If you're spending high thousands to low tens of thousands plumping for fancy hybrid turbos and water/meth injection plus all the other supporting mods, a few grand on decent suspension, a limited slip differential and better tyres is hardly going to be a deal-breaker is it, though? It's such an utterly bizarre thought process. A stage 4 Golf R without supporting chassis modifications is still going to be an absolute mess.
Edited by HM-2 on Thursday 2nd June 20:46
popeyewhite said:
Ah,I hadn't seen your budget: The newish Golf R handles very well indeed, but at triple your price? £13k Golf R or 140i isn't really an option anyway is it? I was looking last year and a decent 140 or 240 was at least £17k. Personally I thought the BMW was a nicer package than the Golf....but with big power and usability the Golf just pips it. You have to decide what factor stops the boredom creeping in...with me it's waay too much power, pointless in a little RWD BM.
Yeah I think the cheapest non-cat M140i at the moment is £14,590. Milage is 70,000ish. Problem is it's a very very basic spec and is a manual. Don't get me wrong I like my manuals but I think the auto suits the characteristics of the M140. Here's the link for it: http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2022052460...
I wouldn't go for this one because it's not my ideal spec at all and £14,590 is a hell of a lot of money to spend on a car that isn't to my specification
I think if I was to buy one tomorrow it would be like this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234553941215?mkcid=16&a...
Interestingly the 240i can sometimes be cheaper than the 140. It used to be the other way around, especially when comparing the earlier m135i and 235i. All things considered I won't be buying yet because I've still got my project to finish so I won't be properly looking until at least the end of 2023 and hopefully some prices will come down. I have briefly toyed with the idea of an F10 M5 but I think the running costs would be beyond a joke
HM-2 said:
If you're spending high thousands to low tens of thousands plumping for fancy hybrid turbos and water/meth injection plus all the other supporting mods, a few grand on decent suspension, a limited slip differential and better tyres is hardly going to be a deal-breaker is it, though?
It's such an utterly bizarre thought process. A stage 4 Golf R without supporting chassis modifications is still going to be an absolute mess.
Stage 4 doesn't happen overnight, and in the meantime the Golf handles, the BM doesn't. Yes, I'd uprate the Golf suspension .It's such an utterly bizarre thought process. A stage 4 Golf R without supporting chassis modifications is still going to be an absolute mess.
Edited by HM-2 on Thursday 2nd June 20:46
Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff