BMW M140i vs Golf R. Which is best for Britain and tuning?

[popeyewhite]

Dylanaledhall said:

Yeah I think the cheapest non-cat M140i at the moment is £14,590. Milage is 70,000ish. Problem is it's a very very basic spec and is a manual. Don't get me wrong I like my manuals but I think the auto suits the characteristics of the M140. Here's the link for it:

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2022052460...

I wouldn't go for this one because it's not my ideal spec at all and £14,590 is a hell of a lot of money to spend on a car that isn't to my specification I think if I was to buy one tomorrow it would be like this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234553941215?mkcid=16&a...

Interestingly the 240i can sometimes be cheaper than the 140. It used to be the other way around, especially when comparing the earlier m135i and 235i. All things considered I won't be buying yet because I've still got my project to finish so I won't be properly looking until at least the end of 2023 and hopefully some prices will come down. I have briefly toyed with the idea of an F10 M5 but I think the running costs would be beyond a joke

240 is an option. They're good cars and great fun at modest speeds, with a lovely interaction between brakes, gears, engine and steering. M5 too big and heavy for serious fun nowadays, let alone costs.

[HM-2]

popeyewhite said:

Stage 4 doesn't happen overnight

There's something like a minimum of a 40% power differential between a "Stage 4" EA888 (~500bhp) and a "Stage 4" B58 (~700whp at the bottom end, with most "stage 4" cars being close to 1000bhp). That partially illustrates why "Stage X" is frankly idiotic and meaningless as a metric of anything that simply serves to signpost people who use the term as a bit odd. In the dry with no other modifications, a ~360bhp remapped Golf R is about as fast by most metrics as an entirely unmodified M140i. Fractionally faster to 60, fractionally slower to 100, about the same in-gear. Yes, the Golf is probably faster point to point in adverse weather...but who the hell is timing then? That's exactly when I'd want the more enjoyable option (which, for me and between the R, A4 AMG and M140i, was the latter).

popeyewhite said:

and in the meantime the Golf handles, the BM doesn't.

Not even remotely true, even assuming you are one of the braindead morons who chases more power before any kind of consideration for other modifications. The F20 chassis is far from ideal for fast road use, but it's not like it's undrivable or spears you off into every waiting hedge. I've been daily driving an M140i for more than 4 years now and I can count on one hand the number of times it's ever really felt out of its depth, despite being entirely standard other than the rear chassis brace.

Edited by HM-2 on Thursday 2nd June 22:32

[Dylanaledhall]

popeyewhite said:

240 is an option. They're good cars and great fun at modest speeds, with a lovely interaction between brakes, gears, engine and steering. M5 too big and heavy for serious fun nowadays, let alone costs.

Just not sure if I like the 2 Series shape in comparison to the 1 series. My M car of choice would be an F80 M3 / M4 simply because I think they're awesome value for money, tunable, look fantastic and are modern enough to have all the tech I like in a car

Edited by Dylanaledhall on Thursday 2nd June 22:36

[popeyewhite]

HM-2 said:

Not even remotely true,

No, it's true. Pushing on in one on the roads around here was frustrating and disappointing. Try not to be rude just because someone has a different opinion from yourself.

[popeyewhite]

Dylanaledhall said:

popeyewhite said:

240 is an option. They're good cars and great fun at modest speeds, with a lovely interaction between brakes, gears, engine and steering. M5 too big and heavy for serious fun nowadays, let alone costs.

Just not sure if I like the 2 Series shape in comparison to the 1 series. My M car of choice would be an F80 M3 / M4 simply because I think they're awesome value for money, tunable, look fantastic and are modern enough to have all the tech I like in a car

Edited by Dylanaledhall on Thursday 2nd June 22:36

I'd go M2. If I had to

The F80 M3/M4 are just a bit...showy for me.

[HM-2]

popeyewhite said:

Try not to be rude just because someone has a different opinion from yourself.

Try not to be precious just because someone disagrees with a view you formed on the basis of essentially zero experience.

[Dylanaledhall]

popeyewhite said:

I'd go M2. If I had to

The F80 M3/M4 are just a bit...showy for me.

I like the showyness but an M4 in Yas Marina blue would do me nicely. I think they look bang on in that colour

[popeyewhite]

Dylanaledhall said:

popeyewhite said:

I'd go M2. If I had to

The F80 M3/M4 are just a bit...showy for me.

I like the showyness but an M4 in Yas Marina blue would do me nicely. I think they look bang on in that colour

I owned an M3 in red/red a few years ago, after a few months I still didn't know whether I'd made the right choice

[nickfrog]

popeyewhite said:

Golf R every time. If you intend going to serious power - Stage 3 or 4 - and using/abusing the car then the Golf is the only choice. The BMW is a good car, but the handling is only so-so meaning that is another upgrade. Rwd and big power all year round? Nah, be realistic this is the UK, not the south of France.

While I mostly agree with your post, I don't get the bit about big power and RWD all year round in the UK. Decent throttle modulation and winter tyres is all you need. More rewarding too.

[popeyewhite]

nickfrog said:

While I mostly agree with your post, I don't get the bit about big power and RWD all year round in the UK. Decent throttle modulation and winter tyres is all you need. More rewarding too.

Can be, certainly, but not as usable every day, all the time. Decent throttle modulation will help, but it just becomes a bit trying to have to think about it al the time on damp/wet/cold roads, ie 6 months of the year. I ran an E63s on winters here in the High Peak at the same time as a Rangie...in the end I rarely used the AMG.

[liner33]

popeyewhite said:

Can be, certainly, but not as usable every day, all the time. Decent throttle modulation will help, but it just becomes a bit trying to have to think about it al the time on damp/wet/cold roads, ie 6 months of the year. I ran an E63s on winters here in the High Peak at the same time as a Rangie...in the end I rarely used the AMG.

Better not to live in the peaks , stay down south and live a little

[popeyewhite]

liner33 said:

Better not to live in the peaks , stay down south and live a little

Oh I don't know, it's fun driving in snow. Bad weather doesn't cause as much panic up here... .

[Sicksilinda]

I sold my M140i manual on Wednesday purely because (due to a change in circumstances) I need an estate car. Owned it for 2 years.

I don’t get the ‘not suited to manual’ thing. It was an absolute hoot and pure joy to drive and I loved the automatic rev matching you get with a manual car as well as the control you have. The box is great as manuals go.

It was remapped too, to 400bhp with no upgraded LSD or suspension. Again. It was an absolute hoot. I loved it.

I’m 52 and my first car was a Capri so I think that’s got something to do with it.

[Dylanaledhall]

Sicksilinda said:

I sold my M140i manual on Wednesday purely because (due to a change in circumstances) I need an estate car. Owned it for 2 years.

I don’t get the ‘not suited to manual’ thing. It was an absolute hoot and pure joy to drive and I loved the automatic rev matching you get with a manual car as well as the control you have. The box is great as manuals go.

It was remapped too, to 400bhp with no upgraded LSD or suspension. Again. It was an absolute hoot. I loved it.

I’m 52 and my first car was a Capri so I think that’s got something to do with it.

Gutting I do love a manual but I do think there is an appropriate gearbox for every car. For me something like a Focus RS or Mégane RS wouldn't suit an automatic box, I'm sure most would agree. However, to me, the M140 is more of a GT car and the ZF box is simply amazing, not to mention it could be slightly more economical (8 speeds) as well as faster. Yes, you will lose the 'engagement' but having driven one with the ZF box I wasn't really feeling short-changed by not having 3 pedals. Would that change later on down the line? Quite possibly, but I think that automatics as of late have become so good, people are opting for the autos over the manuals.

Chassis wise, I think everyone on the internet (including those that have never driven an M140) agrees handling upgrades are definitely not money down the drain. Like I said earlier, the only thing I could tell was the steering wasn't as sharp as my ST's and the brakes didn't have as much bite as I'd like. Other than that I didn't get to throw it around any bends or anything so I can't really comment in that regard. But overall, the car was fan-bloody-fastic I absolutely loved it.

[Dylanaledhall]

Just a little update so far:

Still considering a 140, however you do need to pay around 20k for a clean, nice spec 140. Which got me thinking you can buy an ok M4 for about 3-4k more. Given the fact everyone goes on about the handling issues of an M140i by the time you've factored in a diff, springs and control arms you are looking (all in) around M4 money anyway. I'm very much aware that an M4 will cost a lot more to run than an M140 but I think the M4 is worth the added cost.

So what did I do? I found an M4 advertised locally and asked to go out in it. Only issue was, it was running hybrid turbos and a smattering of other mods. But I thought "bugger it, I'd end up slapping some hybrids on anyway so if anything I'll get a good insight." I went to view the car on Friday and it was absolutely bucketing it down. Anyway, the dealer takes me out in the car and the car feels absolutely lethal. Was sideways most of the drive and you could feel traction control holding back the power but was still letting the rear slither around. Was absolutely phenomenal. Hopefully I can go back on a dry day next week and get a proper drive behind the wheel. Definitely felt like a big car though but so much presence and felt like a proper car

[Dylanaledhall]

While on the M4 topic, I drove this standard ( in terms of performance) M4 today. Must say, in standard form it's very tame but I wouldn't say dull. Was it the fastest car in the world? Absolutely not but I'd say ample in terms of get up and go.

I Left it in automatic to begin just for me to see how the stock M4 behaved, front end felt nice, gearbox was smooth and the ride was surprisingly comfortable from the driver's point of view. Something that was different about this one was it had a milltek system and was quite loud and bassy on start up (very loud on the gear change under an underpass). And to quote my girlfriend while we were out in the car: "sounds bloody awful" so clearly she's a fan

I digress, in automatic mode the car does feel slightly flat, but in manual it's a totally different beast which I really wasn't expecting. Much better than leaving it in auto, I'm not a "manual or death" guy but paddles made the car a lot more enjoyable to drive. The heads-up display was a nice touch also. The brakes, was expecting better to be honest, as some of you know when test-driving a performance car usually the brakes can be very sharp, wasn't the case in the M4 but maybe again it's probably a case where you need to really stamp on them to get the best out of them. The DCT is also not as user-friendly as the ZF 8 in the 140i. Setting off is easy but when I returned to the dealership I didn't have a clue how to put the car into P. Even when in N and handbrake on it still wouldn't bring up the P on the dash, I then really pulled up the handbrake and it finally came up with On the dash, quite frustrating but it's something you'd probably get used to.

Would I say they're a "fun" car? No. I don't think they are, yes they'll drift around roundabouts to your hearts content and yes it would be a perfect daily for someone but to me M4s feel like very serious cars and to quote Jeremy Clarkson "I couldn't imagine this thing smiling" which I think sums it up. It didn't really feel like it was that fast until you go past 80mph where it seems to gain it's momentum, again could be traction limiting power but it didn't feel like there was any hesitation or loss of power, not even a flicker on the dash so unsure on that front. My Stage 2 ST is a lot more fun and I genuinely believe I could drive it faster on my local b roads over an M4 because as we all know they can be daunting when driven hard and the M4 is quite a big car too so I'd imagine would feel quite wide on a b road.

Overall still an amazing car, I definitely am still considering one but I think they really need that extra oomph in terms of a remap. To me, on the road didn't feel any quicker realistically than the 140i that I drove so again paying homage to the little M lite. I think the B58 also felt like it had more torque than the S55 to me as well, yes the previous M4 was absolutely mental but that had been toyed around with. Just wanted to know if anyone's had a similar experience to me? Thanks guys

[Bobupndown]

How long do rear tyres last on a tuned M140?

[popeyewhite]

I'd still go heavily tuned Golf r for year round fun. Tuned M2 is an option?

[CG2020UK]

Dylanaledhall said:

While on the M4 topic, I drove this standard ( in terms of performance) M4 today. Must say, in standard form it's very tame but I wouldn't say dull. Was it the fastest car in the world? Absolutely not but I'd say ample in terms of get up and go.

I Left it in automatic to begin just for me to see how the stock M4 behaved, front end felt nice, gearbox was smooth and the ride was surprisingly comfortable from the driver's point of view. Something that was different about this one was it had a milltek system and was quite loud and bassy on start up (very loud on the gear change under an underpass). And to quote my girlfriend while we were out in the car: "sounds bloody awful" so clearly she's a fan

I digress, in automatic mode the car does feel slightly flat, but in manual it's a totally different beast which I really wasn't expecting. Much better than leaving it in auto, I'm not a "manual or death" guy but paddles made the car a lot more enjoyable to drive. The heads-up display was a nice touch also. The brakes, was expecting better to be honest, as some of you know when test-driving a performance car usually the brakes can be very sharp, wasn't the case in the M4 but maybe again it's probably a case where you need to really stamp on them to get the best out of them. The DCT is also not as user-friendly as the ZF 8 in the 140i. Setting off is easy but when I returned to the dealership I didn't have a clue how to put the car into P. Even when in N and handbrake on it still wouldn't bring up the P on the dash, I then really pulled up the handbrake and it finally came up with On the dash, quite frustrating but it's something you'd probably get used to.

Would I say they're a "fun" car? No. I don't think they are, yes they'll drift around roundabouts to your hearts content and yes it would be a perfect daily for someone but to me M4s feel like very serious cars and to quote Jeremy Clarkson "I couldn't imagine this thing smiling" which I think sums it up. It didn't really feel like it was that fast until you go past 80mph where it seems to gain it's momentum, again could be traction limiting power but it didn't feel like there was any hesitation or loss of power, not even a flicker on the dash so unsure on that front. My Stage 2 ST is a lot more fun and I genuinely believe I could drive it faster on my local b roads over an M4 because as we all know they can be daunting when driven hard and the M4 is quite a big car too so I'd imagine would feel quite wide on a b road.

Overall still an amazing car, I definitely am still considering one but I think they really need that extra oomph in terms of a remap. To me, on the road didn't feel any quicker realistically than the 140i that I drove so again paying homage to the little M lite. I think the B58 also felt like it had more torque than the S55 to me as well, yes the previous M4 was absolutely mental but that had been toyed around with. Just wanted to know if anyone's had a similar experience to me? Thanks guys

The M4 is a very quick car by all measures. I’ve spent a lot of time in them and they are serious bits of kit because they are seriously quick.

I went from a GTI to an M2 (I considered the M4 strongly but enjoyed the M2 more). Initially I felt my GTI (Revo remapped) would be quicker down a B road however now I understand the car and its behaviour not a chance and that’s with the M2 being way too stiff bouncing down the road. You just don’t understand how to drive RWD where it’s very much smooth is quick while the Fiesta is chucked about.

My M2 is considered the fun car of the M range but I’d never throw it about like my GTI or 208GTI or I’d wrap myself round a tree.

Real M cars you just leave in drive when you park.

If you have the choice between an m140i or an M4 you’d be nuts not take the M4 as it significantly better on all levels except running costs.

[Dylanaledhall]

Bobupndown said:

How long do rear tyres last on a tuned M140?

I have absolutely no idea I'd assume not long because the tyres are a hell of a lot smaller than an M car's tyres. I'm going through a set of fronts a year in my ST currently