Where’s the scam here ?

[swisstoni]

Roger Irrelevant said:

Thankyou4calling said:

If I pay for something on a debit card or by bank transfer it ain’t easy to get the money back.

If you could the entire banking network would collapse.

Precisely, so any scam that involves the scammer giving YOU the money in cleared funds first is the most rubbish scam in the world. This question has come up quite a few times before, with plenty of people saying that it's dead easy for funds from a dubious source to be recovered from the account of an innocent party, but when you drill down into the law it's actually really, really difficult. So difficult that a scammer would have to be absolutely mental to rely on doing it for their scam to work.

But if people want to jump at shadows whenever somebody offers to give them money (shock!) upfront (horror!) in exchange for something they've advertised as being for sale (gasp!) then that's up to them.

Read the OP again and ask yourself if it all sounds legit.
For instance, they call to arrange a viewing and then remember, darn it, they’re in a different county at the moment ...

Edited by swisstoni on Monday 15th March 09:52

[Terminator X]

Rockettvr said:

Not sure if I’m in the right forum but here goes, I’ll try to keep it brief
Put the family car up for sale on eBay
Nothing special - £3k family car several others on eBay similar spec etc
A few enquiries- one guy tasks a few questions- wants to know about viewing- we arrange for him to contact me on Friday about viewing at the weekend
In the meantime his partner also contacts me asks a few questions also asks if I’ll take a deposit and hold car till end of month if they decide they want it
I say fine - I’ll give a receipt for deposit but keep car and documents until balance paid
Both of them seem very keen
Friday comes - guy contacts me and says I’ve discussed a deposit and “payments” with his partner - he’ll pay full asking without viewing
I clarify deposit then balance later at agreed date - car and docs stay with me until all paid up
He then says he’s abroad - different from 3 days earlier - still eager to do a deal - deposit sight unseen full asking price
None of it sits right - too eager - paying full price sight unseen, changing story ie he’s coming to view but then he’s abroad etc
Everything is screaming scam but I’m at a loss to see how it works
Ive told him to contact me once he’s home and he can view if it’s still available
Enlighten me please
Thanks

Edited by Rockettvr on Sunday 14th March 22:35

I once had a chap allegedly was going to fly in to the UK just to pay me for the car in full sight unseen. I just told him to Foxtrot Oscar. Wait for a genuine UK buyer imho who will actually come and see the car first.

The scam I guess is that the payment is hooky and falls over after they have collected the car and it is gone.

TX.

[steveo3002]

also just happen to be overseas when theres no holidays allowed , must be a pair of high flying business folk that need a 3k car

[Terminator X]

Roger Irrelevant said:

Thankyou4calling said:

If I pay for something on a debit card or by bank transfer it ain’t easy to get the money back.

If you could the entire banking network would collapse.

Precisely, so any scam that involves the scammer giving YOU the money in cleared funds first is the most rubbish scam in the world. This question has come up quite a few times before, with plenty of people saying that it's dead easy for funds from a dubious source to be recovered from the account of an innocent party, but when you drill down into the law it's actually really, really difficult. So difficult that a scammer would have to be absolutely mental to rely on doing it for their scam to work.

But if people want to jump at shadows whenever somebody offers to give them money (shock!) upfront (horror!) in exchange for something they've advertised as being for sale (gasp!) then that's up to them.

How many cars have you sold that were paid for by people living in foreign countries?

TX.

[Roger Irrelevant]

swisstoni said:

Read the OP again and ask yourself if it all sounds legit.
For instance, they call to arrange a viewing and then remember, darn it, they in a different county at the moment ...

But who cares about any of that if they give you the money first before you let the car go? I honestly don't know how anybody can sell a car if you're this keen to see a scam. What if they did actually come to view the car first, kicked the tyres, did whatever a buyer is supposed to do and then transferred the money to your account? The money could still have come from iffy sources so all the worries above about 'the bank taking your money back' surely still apply. And as we know, scammers are really clever so they'll do whatever it takes to make you think there isn't a scam; they're not going to come dressed as the Hamburglar. Ask to see ID? Well they're scammers aren't they, they can easily get a fake passport or whatever.

[fflump]

I buy and sell high-end watches as a hobby so have had every scam in the books attempted.

Some are very unsophisticated. For example, they ask for bank details but instead of transferring the money they pay a cheque in at your bank and rely on you seeing the funds and sending the watch without verifying the cheque has cleared.

Some are very sophisticated. Buyer contacts, gives their full name requests pictures and wants to meet to purchase the watch, asking for bank details in advance to set you up as a payee. You meet, he inspects the watch and is happy and has transferred the money into your account prior to the meeting as he was sure he wanted it and you'd refund him if not. You check the funds are cleared, that funds come in his name, and he leaves with the watch. Turns out the 'full name' is that of the person they are scamming on the side-less likely to be hacked account these days more likely duped into buying a fake watch or non-existent watch. Scammer walks away with a £10k watch.

[Boringvolvodriver]

For what it’s worth, my view is that if something feels wrong, then there is a fair chance there is something dodgy about it.

The change in story as to where they are sounds iffy to me and as for the deposit, I would not accept it.

My take is that the scam is based around the deposit payment although I can’t quite fully work it out.

As others have said, wait for a UK buyer to come along, wait for cleared funds into the account (confirmed via your bank that these cannot be reclaimed back at any point in the future) and then let the buyer have the car and docs.

[Sheepshanks]

fflump said:

Some are very sophisticated. Buyer contacts, gives their full name requests pictures and wants to meet to purchase the watch, asking for bank details in advance to set you up as a payee. You meet, he inspects the watch and is happy and has transferred the money into your account prior to the meeting as he was sure he wanted it and you'd refund him if not. You check the funds are cleared, that funds come in his name, and he leaves with the watch. Turns out the 'full name' is that of the person they are scamming on the side-less likely to be hacked account these days more likely duped into buying a fake watch or non-existent watch. Scammer walks away with a £10k watch.

Blimey. Is there any obligation on you to repay the money? You hear of cases where money is sent even by mistake and apparently there's no way of forcing the recipient to repay it.

I guess you might feel bad for the sender, but it's possible they could be in on the scam!

[fflump]

Sheepshanks said:

Blimey. Is there any obligation on you to repay the money? You hear of cases where money is sent even by mistake and apparently there's no way of forcing the recipient to repay it.

I guess you might feel bad for the sender, but it's possible they could be in on the scam!

The sender will complain to their bank that they sent you money, or money was extracted to your account as part of a fraud. Your bank will freeze those funds, and may freeze your account while it investigates. At that point it is in the lap of the gods, though they will need some documentary evidence that backs up you not being involved in the fraud.

[Sheepshanks]

Terminator X said:

I once had a chap allegedly was going to fly in to the UK just to pay me for the car in full sight unseen. I just told him to Foxtrot Oscar. Wait for a genuine UK buyer imho who will actually come and see the car first.

The scam I guess is that the payment is hooky and falls over after they have collected the car and it is gone.

TX.

On another forum I use a member said they sold a cheap Mondeo to an Eastern European guy but didn't realise he wasn't already in the UK. He flew over to pick it up and drove it back (the seller was gobsmacked it made it!). Even after converting it to LHD they still sell at a profit, as used cars are so much more expensive than in the UK.

[Rockettvr]

Hi all
Read some of your posts and thought I’d clarify things a little
On first contact guy says he lives 70miles from me and will contact me later in the week to have a viewing at the weekend
On Friday suddenly he’s an English feller who’s now in Northern Italy because he works for Scuderia Toro Rosso and won’t be home for a couple of weeks
Now I’m sure someone who is qualified to be working for an F1 outfit can probably afford a little more than a £3k 15 year old car for his pregnant wife and kids
I’m also sure that someone such as that is going to want to at least look at the car as well
.... unless he’s just the tea boy
It all has a very strong stench of scam around it
He’s said that he’s going to get in touch nearer to his return to Blighty- my guess is I won’t hear from him again

[Wagonwheel555]

Rockettvr said:

Hi all
Read some of your posts and thought I’d clarify things a little
On first contact guy says he lives 70miles from me and will contact me later in the week to have a viewing at the weekend
On Friday suddenly he’s an English feller who’s now in Northern Italy because he works for Scuderia Toro Rosso and won’t be home for a couple of weeks
Now I’m sure someone who is qualified to be working for an F1 outfit can probably afford a little more than a £3k 15 year old car for his pregnant wife and kids
I’m also sure that someone such as that is going to want to at least look at the car as well
.... unless he’s just the tea boy
It all has a very strong stench of scam around it
He’s said that he’s going to get in touch nearer to his return to Blighty- my guess is I won’t hear from him again

Of course he could be genuine, although its not called Toro Rosso anymore, its AlphaTauri since the start of the 2020 season.

If he's genuine and you still have the car then it might be worth entertaining if he contacts you again for a viewing.

In the mean time, sell it to whomever puts the cash in your hand first.

[swisstoni]

Remarkable.

[Rockettvr]

Hi
Just an update
The guy emailed again checking to see if the car was available- it was at the time
But it sold on Saturday so I guess that’s the end
Thanks all

[ChrisH72]

Good result in the end then.

I like to sell privately but never bother with deposits and only sell to buyers who come to see the car in person. First person to come and see it with the funds to buy gets it. Keep it simple.

[SimonTheSailor]

Don't want to start yet another 'wheres the scan' thread so adding it to here -

Got an advert up - didn't want my mobile number on the internet so email only to start.

Got an email saying 'Hello, I'm interested in this item. Is it still available if so could u please call me on xxxxxxxxxx. Thanks "

Thought it odd that they called it an item rather than 'your car' ?

Sent an email back saying I was out to dinner but are there any questions I can answer later.

"Ur add explains most things just give me a call when ur free "

The email is an '@live.co.uk' with a name at the front of it, but when the email is displayed the name shows ' Lohn Smith' ?!

Is it somebody that is trying to choose the most common name but has mistyped it ?!

Could the mobile number be a premium number that I am going to get charged on ?

[krisdelta]

The very genuine buyer for my last car on initial contact started with "is this item still available" (via PH) - so I think it must be pre-filled content or the like from the ad.

[Gerradi]

I have sent similar std message, no answer then a detailed message...no answer , then phoned the Auto Trader special safe seller expensive Tel number No answer . About 4 days in between each nothing but still advertised...?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202303105...

[Sheepshanks]

Gerradi said:

I have sent similar std message, no answer then a detailed message...no answer , then phoned the Auto Trader special safe seller expensive Tel number No answer . About 4 days in between each nothing but still advertised...?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202303105...

Should be no danger of that having kerbed alloys!

Edited by Sheepshanks on Thursday 27th April 16:32

[SistersofPercy]

krisdelta said:

The very genuine buyer for my last car on initial contact started with "is this item still available" (via PH) - so I think it must be pre-filled content or the like from the ad.

My car has just sold and I was curious so sent myself an email via Autotrader and it is the stock response.
Did have one guy desperate to get an email address for me though, when I reiterated that I'd prefer to keep everything to AT's messaging system he disappeared.