Sharing car with 17 year-old learner - Insurance and NCB/NCD
Discussion
We don't own a manual so I’m going to buy one for my use, and to give my daughter extra practice while she has driving lessons. The car will be low insurance group and cost a few grand, I’ll register and insure it in my name until she's 17.
Then we'll insure her as a provisional driver with me as named driver, comprehensive for around £330. I’ll be using the car more than her, in theory she’ll get NCB but I’ve read that when she passes we’ll probably have to cancel it and go to a different company. Would it make sense to delay her test until she’s been driving for a year, so she gets the NCB?
Once she’s passed, we’ll be paying around £1100 for a black box policy in her name, again with me as additional driver and doing most of the mileage. I won’t drive it like I stole it, and she’ll be earning NCB unless one of us has an accident. If I have an accident, I'll have to declare it on other policies. After uni she can get her own car and I'll go through the same thing with my younger daughter.
Am I doing it right? Did I miss anything? Is there a better way? Thanks.
Then we'll insure her as a provisional driver with me as named driver, comprehensive for around £330. I’ll be using the car more than her, in theory she’ll get NCB but I’ve read that when she passes we’ll probably have to cancel it and go to a different company. Would it make sense to delay her test until she’s been driving for a year, so she gets the NCB?
Once she’s passed, we’ll be paying around £1100 for a black box policy in her name, again with me as additional driver and doing most of the mileage. I won’t drive it like I stole it, and she’ll be earning NCB unless one of us has an accident. If I have an accident, I'll have to declare it on other policies. After uni she can get her own car and I'll go through the same thing with my younger daughter.
Am I doing it right? Did I miss anything? Is there a better way? Thanks.
The insurance HAS to be in the name of the MAIN driver. What you are proposing is way of YOU getting cheap insurance using your daughters name, and building up a false NCB for HER when she's not the main driver. (even if she does own the car.)
It is called 'fronting', it is illegal and you will be in big s
t if found out.
If you will be the main driver, insure it in your name. (with her as a named driver)
If you will only be using the car when your daughter is practicing then insure it in her name. (with you as a named driver)
It is called 'fronting', it is illegal and you will be in big s
t if found out.If you will be the main driver, insure it in your name. (with her as a named driver)
If you will only be using the car when your daughter is practicing then insure it in her name. (with you as a named driver)
Having spent many hours reading all the PH threads on the subject, I wasn't aware that the policy holder has to be the main driver. When I ask for quotes, it allows me to put her as the policy holder and me as the main driver. And as I'm an old duffer with more than 30 years of accident-free motoring, it'd actually be cheaper for me to insure in my own name, and add her as an additional driver. But the PH threads say insure in her name.
What do you think I should do, to get her NCB up as quickly as possible in a shared car?
What do you think I should do, to get her NCB up as quickly as possible in a shared car?
-Pete- said:
Having spent many hours reading all the PH threads on the subject, I wasn't aware that the policy holder has to be the main driver. When I ask for quotes, it allows me to put her as the policy holder and me as the main driver. And as I'm an old duffer with more than 30 years of accident-free motoring, it'd actually be cheaper for me to insure in my own name, and add her as an additional driver. But the PH threads say insure in her name.
What do you think I should do, to get her NCB up as quickly as possible in a shared car?
I would have said previously that the main driver had to be the policy holder, but I've just renewed our daily driver Inurance and as you say it asked who was the main driver as a seperate question.What do you think I should do, to get her NCB up as quickly as possible in a shared car?
I don't remember ever being asked that before.
The problem with NCD for learners is that not all Learner insurance policies will insure you once you pass, and it's a condition that cancel the policy as soon as they pass (that happened with my daughter).
My son is currently learning and when I do quotes for him as a learner Vs passed, different companies come up cheaper, even mainstream insurers who will insure both. Hastings were cheaper as a learner, but RAC are hundreds cheaper than Hastings when he passes.
All you can really do is crunch the numbers and see what comes up cheapest in your situation.
Can't say that its correct for all insurance companies, but all the ones i've used over the past 20 years or so haven't cared that the main driver and policy holder are not the same person. Due to some paperwork issue that happened ages ago, I am the registered keeper of my partners car, which i insure in my name with her as main driver and vice versa.
boyse7en said:
Can't say that its correct for all insurance companies, but all the ones i've used over the past 20 years or so haven't cared that the main driver and policy holder are not the same person. Due to some paperwork issue that happened ages ago, I am the registered keeper of my partners car, which i insure in my name with her as main driver and vice versa.
That makes sense. I generally deal with all the household insurances so I would like to be the policyholder on all of them, even if I'm not the owner, keeper or main driver.It means I would get the reminders and with Direct Line I would see all our policies on one account.
I've also ended up being the keeper on my parners car. Who uses what car depends on our work/commute situations,and what cars we currently own. It's good that insurance documents can differentiate between owner/keeper/policyholder/main driver and them not always being one and the same.
I would suspect that the issue of main driver vs policyholder, i.e. an implied belief that they are one and the same, would only really become an issue a) in the event of a claim, b) when it's the named driver involved and c) if they are a massively disproportionate risk compared to the policyholder.
The policyholder doesn't HAVE to be the main driver, but in the absence of an explicit additional question asking who the main driver is - I would assume that the insurer believes that to be the case. Best to check the policy wording to be sure.
I would've thought in the OP's case since he would ordinarily be considerably lower risk than his daughter that him being the named driver and also the main driver of the vehicle would suit the insurance company fine. It seems to me that this is actually the opposite of most fronting scenarios, since the premium would be loaded on the daughter being the policyholder.
The above said I wonder whether the OP is fully prepared to drive in a manner that is acceptable on a black box policy, otherwise there's a good chance he'll sabotage his daughter's policy.
The policyholder doesn't HAVE to be the main driver, but in the absence of an explicit additional question asking who the main driver is - I would assume that the insurer believes that to be the case. Best to check the policy wording to be sure.
I would've thought in the OP's case since he would ordinarily be considerably lower risk than his daughter that him being the named driver and also the main driver of the vehicle would suit the insurance company fine. It seems to me that this is actually the opposite of most fronting scenarios, since the premium would be loaded on the daughter being the policyholder.
The above said I wonder whether the OP is fully prepared to drive in a manner that is acceptable on a black box policy, otherwise there's a good chance he'll sabotage his daughter's policy.
Edited by Durzel on Wednesday 23 June 11:06
NGee said:
The insurance HAS to be in the name of the MAIN driver. What you are proposing is way of YOU getting cheap insurance using your daughters name, and building up a false NCB for HER when she's not the main driver. (even if she does own the car.)
It is called 'fronting', it is illegal and you will be in big st if found out.
If you will be the main driver, insure it in your name. (with her as a named driver)
If you will only be using the car when your daughter is practicing then insure it in her name. (with you as a named driver)
I think you have mis-stated this to some degree. Fronting is about getting cheap insurance for a high risk driver on the basis a low risk driver is the primary user.It is called 'fronting', it is illegal and you will be in big s
t if found out.If you will be the main driver, insure it in your name. (with her as a named driver)
If you will only be using the car when your daughter is practicing then insure it in her name. (with you as a named driver)
It is perfectly possible to insure a car as the RK and owner, be the policy holder when the main driver is someone different.
The key here is to be clear with the insurance company as to the usage. In the same circs as the OP, I as parent did the most miles (fewer longer journeys), but the learner did more journeys by far. The safe way is to describe that to the ins co to make the usage clear and make sure they are happy.
To the OP's question, getting a 12 month NCB is helpful! If that means delaying the test, just depends on how you view it!
Bert
Edited by BertBert on Wednesday 23 June 13:19
As a registered keeper of an 18 year old, I'd love to have a real definition of "main driver".
Most miles?
Most time behind the wheel?
Most journeys?
Location?
And all of the above, over what time period?
The most sensible option for me (pandemic aside) would be to put him as a named driver on my commuting car, that does 20K miles a year with me at the wheel. It does nothing at the weekend, which is when he would want it. If he then said "do you mind if I take it to Uni for a month" because he needs to move a load of stuff, does he become main driver for that month?
Most miles?
Most time behind the wheel?
Most journeys?
Location?
And all of the above, over what time period?
The most sensible option for me (pandemic aside) would be to put him as a named driver on my commuting car, that does 20K miles a year with me at the wheel. It does nothing at the weekend, which is when he would want it. If he then said "do you mind if I take it to Uni for a month" because he needs to move a load of stuff, does he become main driver for that month?
Just been through this with my 17 year old who passed his test last week.
I'm the owner of the car, he is the registered keeper right from the beginning. We insured it with him as a provisional as the main driver with my wife as the named other driver (the learner policy only allowed 1 other driver to be named & she did most of the chaperoning).
When he passed, we didn't realise this ended the insurance policy straight away. It didn't make any difference but worth noting (it stayed on our drive a few days while we sorted out his insurance anyway). They had quoted he would generate NCB that he could then pass on....but in order to get 1 year he had to have been insured >10 months which we didn't know and therefore we lost that time period. No biggie in the scheme of things, we're just happy he passed and now has some freedom of movement without taxi mum & dad. I'm not sure I'd delay them taking the test simply to incur NCB unless you were getting close to that timeline....depends how fast they pick up the skills and how much practice they get. After his instructor said he was fine on the roads (3 lessons), we initially took him to the local industrial estate on a Sunday to practice parking, clutch control, road positioning etc.etc and then he drove 4 times a week to his training (and back if he wasn't too knackered). Built up a lot of hrs experience relatively quickly. We were lucky he picked up the technical elements quickly and is a very chilled character so doesn't get flustered easily and does take guidance / instruction !
The usual insurance advice applies....search around. We added his car as a separate car / him as registered keeper & main driver with me and wife named drivers to my wifes insurance (effectively multi car for family). Quote was ~£800 without black box. (VW UP Beats). Everywhere else was around > £1500, some with black box & excessive restrictions eg no driving >1hr, only 5 trips per day...plus the usual curfew times. This wouldn't have worked easily for us as he trains for athletics and also goes to athletics meets at weekends that could easily be a 1 hr journey and more if traffic.
I'm the owner of the car, he is the registered keeper right from the beginning. We insured it with him as a provisional as the main driver with my wife as the named other driver (the learner policy only allowed 1 other driver to be named & she did most of the chaperoning).
When he passed, we didn't realise this ended the insurance policy straight away. It didn't make any difference but worth noting (it stayed on our drive a few days while we sorted out his insurance anyway). They had quoted he would generate NCB that he could then pass on....but in order to get 1 year he had to have been insured >10 months which we didn't know and therefore we lost that time period. No biggie in the scheme of things, we're just happy he passed and now has some freedom of movement without taxi mum & dad. I'm not sure I'd delay them taking the test simply to incur NCB unless you were getting close to that timeline....depends how fast they pick up the skills and how much practice they get. After his instructor said he was fine on the roads (3 lessons), we initially took him to the local industrial estate on a Sunday to practice parking, clutch control, road positioning etc.etc and then he drove 4 times a week to his training (and back if he wasn't too knackered). Built up a lot of hrs experience relatively quickly. We were lucky he picked up the technical elements quickly and is a very chilled character so doesn't get flustered easily and does take guidance / instruction !
The usual insurance advice applies....search around. We added his car as a separate car / him as registered keeper & main driver with me and wife named drivers to my wifes insurance (effectively multi car for family). Quote was ~£800 without black box. (VW UP Beats). Everywhere else was around > £1500, some with black box & excessive restrictions eg no driving >1hr, only 5 trips per day...plus the usual curfew times. This wouldn't have worked easily for us as he trains for athletics and also goes to athletics meets at weekends that could easily be a 1 hr journey and more if traffic.
If you add your daughters car to an admiral multicar policy, then it only needs to be on the policy for 3 months in order for her to earn a full years NCB at the renewal date. Meaning if the policy renews on 1st June, if you add her car to it before 1st March she will have 1 years NCB in June.
We did this, and completely without planning the timing worked out pretty much exact - something like 3 months and a week.
We did this, and completely without planning the timing worked out pretty much exact - something like 3 months and a week.
Thanks for all the replies.
She needs something to learn in, my van won't do, my wife's car is an auto. My aim is to get her 2-3 years NCB by the time she gets her own car. The car will be mine, 75% of journeys and miles will be mine. I'll make that clear to the insurers.
In previous PH threads, knowledgeable people said the policyholder earns the NCB, and that a named driver can also be the main driver. Comparison sites seem to agree, I'm getting £300 / £1100 (before / after passing) quotes on a small car. Marmalade seems more expensive Durzel, maybe I'm doing it wrong? Switching to Admiral multicar would be a pain, but I'll look into it omniflow, thanks.
I'm not in a hurry for her to be able to go out on her own, so I might delay putting her in for her test for 10-12 months if it means she'll get NCB. If it means I have to drive a car with a black box then that's no problem, my days of tearing around are long gone... I needed the Ferrari 308 when I was 17, now I could probably afford one but I can't be bothered... probably a Hyundai i10 for me
She needs something to learn in, my van won't do, my wife's car is an auto. My aim is to get her 2-3 years NCB by the time she gets her own car. The car will be mine, 75% of journeys and miles will be mine. I'll make that clear to the insurers.
In previous PH threads, knowledgeable people said the policyholder earns the NCB, and that a named driver can also be the main driver. Comparison sites seem to agree, I'm getting £300 / £1100 (before / after passing) quotes on a small car. Marmalade seems more expensive Durzel, maybe I'm doing it wrong? Switching to Admiral multicar would be a pain, but I'll look into it omniflow, thanks.
I'm not in a hurry for her to be able to go out on her own, so I might delay putting her in for her test for 10-12 months if it means she'll get NCB. If it means I have to drive a car with a black box then that's no problem, my days of tearing around are long gone... I needed the Ferrari 308 when I was 17, now I could probably afford one but I can't be bothered... probably a Hyundai i10 for me
NGee said:
The insurance HAS to be in the name of the MAIN driver. What you are proposing is way of YOU getting cheap insurance using your daughters name, and building up a false NCB for HER when she's not the main driver. (even if she does own the car.)
It is called 'fronting', it is illegal and you will be in big st if found out.
If you will be the main driver, insure it in your name. (with her as a named driver)
If you will only be using the car when your daughter is practicing then insure it in her name. (with you as a named driver)
Just wrong. As long as you tell the insurance company who the main driver will be most companies will allow the policy to be in any of the driver's names.It is called 'fronting', it is illegal and you will be in big s
t if found out.If you will be the main driver, insure it in your name. (with her as a named driver)
If you will only be using the car when your daughter is practicing then insure it in her name. (with you as a named driver)
I'd be careful on the NCB front. If you are the main driver and she is named, I'm not 100% sure "she" will be earning the NCB that can then be later transferred from you to her. I think she would need to be named as the main driver (possibly insurance in her name ??).
I believe it's you that's earning it on that car as the main driver. Worth exploring with the insurance companies at the very least and I'm sure some of the insurance experts will be along in a minute to make it clear.
I believe it's you that's earning it on that car as the main driver. Worth exploring with the insurance companies at the very least and I'm sure some of the insurance experts will be along in a minute to make it clear.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff