Splitting the family car in two...? A challenge

[Walshenham]

Slightly cryptic title, but I’ll explain.

For years, We have been a one car household. Mrs doesn’t drive, we have a little one and two dogs, so car choices have been a compromise. I need something that’s big enough, comfy enough, practice enough to use daily, but want something fun/interesting.

My current car (a leggy Lexus gs450h) kind of fits everything, but also kind of misses a bit on each too. It’s supremely comfy, has everything you could want toys wise, and in a straight line is genuinely, surprisingly fast. It’ll keep a 335i honest in a straight line ( allegedly ...).

But... the boot is tiny, and if you drive it remotely enthusiastically down a back road, it’ll set fire to its brakes (again allegedly..). It’s also completely detached, everything is drive by wire.

So I’ve been looking for a fast, fun practical, sporty, comfy, well equipped, light, safe, great handling, interesting car to replace it for about 6 grand. And coming up a bit short... Until I figured, why not have both.

So that’s the challenge. Something practical, comfy and smart to ferry the child, dogs, Mrs and assorted luggage about, and a second car for me to use for fun. With a total budget of about 6k.

Some points;

•I don’t really care what the allocation of budget is, provided both cars are road worthy and not total sheds.

•The family car should be an auto.

•I’m 6ft 5. I’ve driven a z4 for example, and I don’t really fit..

•it would be helpful if I could get a baby seat in the back of the “fun” car, if I really needed to. Two seaters are probably not ideal, but would consider if it was interesting enough.

Any and all suggestions welcome!

[ingenieur]

This is easy to do if you're okay with older cars. Which you would have to be if you wanted 2 for £6k.

I've been buying e-class estate for years (never as old and cheap as what you'd be considering) but they're nearly all automatics and do the family thing no problem.

For a cheap and practical performance car for about £3k there is so much to choose from.

[ZX10R NIN]

Family Car Option.

2.0T Laguna3 Dynamique S 170 a nice torquey swift estate which'll be handy for the dogs:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202112300...

2.3T Saab 9-5 Aero

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202110068...

If you don't want an estate then there are these.

2.0d Insignia SRI 160

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111179...

Mercedes CLS320cdi

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202112300...

C270cdi Estate these are pretty much bulletproof & will make a nice daily:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108256...

2.3 Mondeo Ghia

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202201040...

E320 Avantgarde

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202112050...

2.4d V70

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111159...

3.0i X3

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109016...

Subaru Tribeca not a looker but a great family car:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108085...

3.0 Legacy

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106183...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202112020...

Fun car options, due to your limited budget & preference for four seats the fun car may not be as fun as you'd like but they'll still be fun.

CLK500

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202201030...

325i SE

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202112080...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202112100...

325ci

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202201111...

A bit of a brave pill but a very good car is the RX-8:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/194704713963?hash=item2...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/373853570832?hash=item5...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125090067292?hash=item1...

[Walshenham]

ingenieur said:

This is easy to do if you're okay with older cars. Which you would have to be if you wanted 2 for £6k.

I've been buying e-class estate for years (never as old and cheap as what you'd be considering) but they're nearly all automatics and do the family thing no problem.

For a cheap and practical performance car for about £3k there is so much to choose from.

More than happy with old cars. I am basically allergic to car finance for some reason, so I’m used to 10+ years, 100k miles plus.

Prior to thinking of getting two, an e350 CDI was/is quite high on my list. Looks absolutely massive inside.

[Walshenham]

ZX10R NIN said:

Family Car Option.

3.0 Legacy

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106183...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202112020...

Fun car options, due to your limited budget & preference for four seats the fun car may not be as fun as you'd like but they'll still be fun.

CLK500

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202201030...

A bit of a brave pill but a very good car is the RX-8:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/194704713963?hash=item2...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/373853570832?hash=item5...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125090067292?hash=item1...

Loads of good options, thank you. Of the ones you posted, the legacy ( if I can find an estate) is a great shout.

Sticking with the Japanese, I’d forgotten about rx8’s entirely! Couldn’t give a monkeys about fuel efficiency on the fun car, so that’s fine, but finding one with a remotely decent motor looks... difficult.

[Walshenham]

Anyone driven a clio 182? Or am I totally deluded at my height.

[FilH]

Walshenham said:

So I’ve been looking for a fast, fun practical, sporty, comfy, well equipped, light, safe, great handling, interesting car to replace it for about 6 grand. And coming up a bit short... Until I figured, why not have both.

Had a very similar list to that last year, but half the 6k budget.

So i bought a 2005 mondeo ST220, now it doesn't score top makes in all your criteria, it must come close

And I'm sure if you wait a few more years it will be closer to 6k!

[RoVoFob]

Walshenham said:

Loads of good options, thank you. Of the ones you posted, the legacy ( if I can find an estate) is a great shout.

Sticking with the Japanese, I’d forgotten about rx8’s entirely! Couldn’t give a monkeys about fuel efficiency on the fun car, so that’s fine, but finding one with a remotely decent motor looks... difficult.

Ex-Legacy 3.0R Spec.B estate owner here. Great car with a beautifully smooth flat-six and very good handling. However…I’d personally only want a manual one. It’s a revvy engine and the manual gearbox is very slick and short geared, enabling you to get the most from it. I simply can’t imagine the car appealing in auto form, though, as it’s then a thirsty car with less driver engagement and I think it’d feel slow with much longer gears,

Check out UKlegacy.com for lots of info on what to look out for and a number of classifieds, too.

When it comes to having a sensible car and a fun one, some cars work together better than others, so it’s worth thinking about the combination you’re after. The Legacy is quite analogue, with light but very precise steering, a super-slick manual gear change and agile handling. I considered running it alongside my BMW 130i, but the BMW highlights how light the steering is, and the lack of torque, while the Legacy made the BMW feel clumsy. I liked both, but they didn’t go well together…

[Walshenham]

FilH said:

Had a very similar list to that last year, but half the 6k budget.

So i bought a 2005 mondeo ST220, now it doesn't score top makes in all your criteria, it must come close

And I'm sure if you wait a few more years it will be closer to 6k!

I actually had an st220 for a while, it’s a lovely thing. Great soundtrack!

[loskie]

JDM Forester or Legacy Wagon

[defblade]

RoVoFob said:

Ex-Legacy 3.0R Spec.B estate owner here. Great car with a beautifully smooth flat-six and very good handling. However…I’d personally only want a manual one. It’s a revvy engine and the manual gearbox is very slick and short geared, enabling you to get the most from it. I simply can’t imagine the car appealing in auto form, though, as it’s then a thirsty car with less driver engagement and I think it’d feel slow with much longer gears,

Check out UKlegacy.com for lots of info on what to look out for and a number of classifieds, too.

When it comes to having a sensible car and a fun one, some cars work together better than others, so it’s worth thinking about the combination you’re after. The Legacy is quite analogue, with light but very precise steering, a super-slick manual gear change and agile handling. I considered running it alongside my BMW 130i, but the BMW highlights how light the steering is, and the lack of torque, while the Legacy made the BMW feel clumsy. I liked both, but they didn’t go well together…

Stop dissing the auto Leggies! The 2.0 twinscroll, at least, is great in auto And they don't have the problematic type of centre diff. And another point I'll make below...

OP: A leggie could be the only car you need... I'm biased, but I'd recommend the JDM 2.0 Spec B twinscroll like I had - it ticks all your boxes for one car, I think.
However - try before you buy. At 6'4", I just about fit comfortably in... and one of the things about that was that it was an auto - I often thought that if it had had a clutch pedal, I'd likely have had trouble using it due to knee/steering wheel issues.
The twinscroll provides so much smooth torque that all the talk above of gearing and revving becomes almost irrelevant - it was just fast, everywhere, any time you wanted, with no effort at all

[Martyn76]

Walshenham said:

Anyone driven a clio 182? Or am I totally deluded at my height.

I had one from new back in 2004, I'm 6"1 and never had an issue.

[ingenieur]

Walshenham said:

ingenieur said:

This is easy to do if you're okay with older cars. Which you would have to be if you wanted 2 for £6k.

I've been buying e-class estate for years (never as old and cheap as what you'd be considering) but they're nearly all automatics and do the family thing no problem.

For a cheap and practical performance car for about £3k there is so much to choose from.

More than happy with old cars. I am basically allergic to car finance for some reason, so I’m used to 10+ years, 100k miles plus.

Prior to thinking of getting two, an e350 CDI was/is quite high on my list. Looks absolutely massive inside.

Yes, I'm also allergic to car finance. I had it when I was younger but now I own all my cars and I'm trading myself up each time I change them.

Of the 3 E-Class estates I had the first was petrol E350 and the second two were diesel E350. I would say if the badge on the back is E350 you won't be disappointed. My current diesel E350 is the fastest of the 3 but obviously the petrol E350 sounded the best and was also the most luxurious of the 3.

I was drawn to the E-Class because I've read in a few places that it's the biggest estate. I had a really nice Saab 9-5 Aero estate between the mercs and it struggled to take some of the kids stuff like double-buggy. You can't fold the seats down if you have a couple of child-seats with children in them so the boot has to be big enough to take whatever your life requires at that moment. I got a 3-seat sofa in the back of one of the mercs.

Edited by ingenieur on Wednesday 12th January 12:22

[RoVoFob]

defblade said:

Stop dissing the auto Leggies! The 2.0 twinscroll, at least, is great in auto And they don't have the problematic type of centre diff. And another point I'll make below...

OP: A leggie could be the only car you need... I'm biased, but I'd recommend the JDM 2.0 Spec B twinscroll like I had - it ticks all your boxes for one car, I think.
However - try before you buy. At 6'4", I just about fit comfortably in... and one of the things about that was that it was an auto - I often thought that if it had had a clutch pedal, I'd likely have had trouble using it due to knee/steering wheel issues.
The twinscroll provides so much smooth torque that all the talk above of gearing and revving becomes almost irrelevant - it was just fast, everywhere, any time you wanted, with no effort at all

The 2.0-litre twinscroll is turbocharged, so probably works much better in automatic form than the beautifully revvy, but torque-light flat-six.

Strapping an auto to the 3.0-litre engine is like forcing a ballet dancer to wear rugby boots. It would limit how much you can exploit the Spec B’s two best features - the engine and the gearbox - and prevent the car from being a good sporty car or a cruiser. Some cars are great in auto form, but I don’t think the Spec B is one of them…

Do you have any one-car solutions in mind, OP, as a benchmark?

[Walshenham]

RoVoFob said:

The 2.0-litre twinscroll is turbocharged, so probably works much better in automatic form than the beautifully revvy, but torque-light flat-six.

Strapping an auto to the 3.0-litre engine is like forcing a ballet dancer to wear rugby boots. It would limit how much you can exploit the Spec B’s two best features - the engine and the gearbox - and prevent the car from being a good sporty car or a cruiser. Some cars are great in auto form, but I don’t think the Spec B is one of them…

Do you have any one-car solutions in mind, OP, as a benchmark?

The one I keep gravitating back to is the b7 Audi s4 avant.

Only problem is it’s a bit of a lard arse, and the prices seem to have gone a bit nuts recently.

The legacy is a great shout, I’ve looked at spec b’s before, but the Mrs is going for an auto license 🙄

[Defcon5]

I think one car is the best option. I don’t think 2 lots of tax, insurance and maintenance is worth it for the pair of cars you are going to end up with, and I bet you would end up driving one of them vastly more than the other anyway

Octavia VRS/2.5T mondeo estates?

[RoVoFob]

Walshenham said:

The one I keep gravitating back to is the b7 Audi s4 avant.

Only problem is it’s a bit of a lard arse, and the prices seem to have gone a bit nuts recently.

The legacy is a great shout, I’ve looked at spec b’s before, but the Mrs is going for an auto license ??

Interesting…you seem to have similar tastes to me.

I’ve really wanted an S4 Avant for a long time, but decided the boot was too small and the lack of Isofix points wasn’t ideal. So, I’ve ended up with a 2006 A6 Avant 4.2 V8 - it has the same engine as the S4, plus more space and is a generation newer, which means that it’s safer and has a better media system and other in-car kit. Values are also lower, typically.

My high-spec 06 SE, with 87k on the clock was less than your overall budget and has a very good service history (regular oil services are particularly important for this engine to keep the cam chain healthy). It’s less agile than the Legacy (and no doubt the S4, too), but feels luxurious, is very well equipped and is quick, comfy and satisfying to drive, if not sporty.

As a practical family car, it’s been a really enjoyable car to live with so far. It probably covers most of the same bases as your current Lexus, but is a lot more practical and more engaging to drive.

If you went for a two-car setup instead, even a 150k-mile E320 CDI estate costs around £3k, so would there be anything interesting enough for the remaining £3k for you to justify a second set of running costs? Seems like both cars might be high mileage and potentially costly to run/unreliable with this format. Could be a shock to the system after running one Lexus!

If an S4 appeals to you, maybe one V8 A6 Avant or E-Class is a good solution. There are two recent E500 reader’s cars threads on PH - both of which involve big bills, if I remember rightly. The equivalent 545i/550i BMWs are also supposed to be quite unreliable. Unusually, that could mean that the A6 is the low risk choice…

[Walshenham]

RoVoFob said:

Interesting…you seem to have similar tastes to me.

I’ve really wanted an S4 Avant for a long time, but decided the boot was too small and the lack of Isofix points wasn’t ideal. So, I’ve ended up with a 2006 A6 Avant 4.2 V8 - it has the same engine as the S4, plus more space and is a generation newer, which means that it’s safer and has a better media system and other in-car kit. Values are also lower, typically.

My high-spec 06 SE, with 87k on the clock was less than your overall budget and has a very good service history (regular oil services are particularly important for this engine to keep the cam chain healthy). It’s less agile than the Legacy (and no doubt the S4, too), but feels luxurious, is very well equipped and is quick, comfy and satisfying to drive, if not sporty.

As a practical family car, it’s been a really enjoyable car to live with so far. It probably covers most of the same bases as your current Lexus, but is a lot more practical and more engaging to drive.

If you went for a two-car setup instead, even a 150k-mile E320 CDI estate costs around £3k, so would there be anything interesting enough for the remaining £3k for you to justify a second set of running costs? Seems like both cars might be high mileage and potentially costly to run/unreliable with this format. Could be a shock to the system after running one Lexus!

If an S4 appeals to you, maybe one V8 A6 Avant or E-Class is a good solution. There are two recent E500 reader’s cars threads on PH - both of which involve big bills, if I remember rightly. The equivalent 545i/550i BMWs are also supposed to be quite unreliable. Unusually, that could mean that the A6 is the low risk choice…

I’d say we have pretty similar tastes, given the car before the Lexus was....



My default is big, Bargy German tanks, so I’m used to them occasionally chucking stupid bills, it’s part of it. A 545i/ 550i touring would be ideal, but I think there are about 8 of them in the uk. Aware of Valve stem issues etc

I think for me, I’ve had 2 ton bricks for so long, I’ve forgotten what it’s like to have a proper, chuckable car. That’s kind of where my head was/is at.

[A500leroy]

Import forester sti?

[RoVoFob]

Walshenham said:

I’d say we have pretty similar tastes, given the car before the Lexus was....



My default is big, Bargy German tanks, so I’m used to them occasionally chucking stupid bills, it’s part of it. A 545i/ 550i touring would be ideal, but I think there are about 8 of them in the uk. Aware of Valve stem issues etc

I think for me, I’ve had 2 ton bricks for so long, I’ve forgotten what it’s like to have a proper, chuckable car. That’s kind of where my head was/is at.

Hehe. I did toy with getting a 2005 GS430 for a while last year, too…

If you fancy something more agile but still practical, I don’t think you can beat the Legacy for the money. The steering is light but precise, the manual gear change felt similar to that of an MX-5 and the flat-six engine was divine. It felt amazingly light for that size of car, too.

If you’re set on going auto, I’d recommend the twinscroll, as I mentioned before. The tougher question is which sporty car would go well with it. I actually think the Clio could be a good match. Then you have an auto estate that’s practical, relatively refined but still agile and satisfying to drive. Plus a frenetic, loud and engaging manual hot hatch…

Get into the Legacy after the Clio and it’d feel comfy and upmarket, while the Clio would feel like a stripped out skateboard in comparison to the Legacy…Win win.