Is this a scam?
Discussion
rotaryjam said:
Sorry for slow reply
I recieved the money via bank transfer.
We did haggle quite a bit and the isnt amazing or unusual.
It gets straneger though, they sent me another £2,500. I asked why and they said they were testing out payments because something to do with the banks. I said it all seems very suspicious.... I sent them back everything except £500 depsoit and said I want the rest on the day of pickup cleared in my account before I release the car.
So I am very suspicious of them but if I dont release the car until I have the money showing in full in my account how can I be scammed?
To me this sounds like using the car purchase to move stolen money around from compromised bank accounts. Sometimes you see adverts such as: "Do you have a HSBC/Barclays/whateverbank account?" Someone gets a cut for allowing their bank account to be used to move stolen money to buy things. You end up as the innocent car seller who also gets their account frozen by your bank for fraud and lose the car, despite the cleared funds.I recieved the money via bank transfer.
We did haggle quite a bit and the isnt amazing or unusual.
It gets straneger though, they sent me another £2,500. I asked why and they said they were testing out payments because something to do with the banks. I said it all seems very suspicious.... I sent them back everything except £500 depsoit and said I want the rest on the day of pickup cleared in my account before I release the car.
So I am very suspicious of them but if I dont release the car until I have the money showing in full in my account how can I be scammed?
Edited by rotaryjam on Saturday 5th March 22:09
rotaryjam said:
I did wonder if it might be an excercise to clean money...
So lets day the money is showing in my account cleared, how can they get that back?
Does the name of the person you are speaking to match the bank account payment?So lets day the money is showing in my account cleared, how can they get that back?
Edited by rotaryjam on Saturday 5th March 22:34
rotaryjam said:
I did wonder if it might be an excercise to clean money...
So lets day the money is showing in my account cleared, how can they get that back?
It'll show as cleared funds on day 1. So lets day the money is showing in my account cleared, how can they get that back?
Edited by rotaryjam on Saturday 5th March 22:34
2 days later the other bank will discover it's a fraudulent transaction and reclaim the funds.
By this time you've let the courier collect the car.
Yes, caution is good but here is another point of view.
I've been on the buyer side of a transaction like this. A lot of banks in the UK have a daily faster payments limit around £20k / £25k (some are as low as £10k) so payments have to be done from different accounts or over separate days. Speak to the buyer, but very possible he sent another payment from a second account just so he knows he can make all the payments needed on the day by using more than one account. Yeah, best to try with £1 in a normal world, but logic stands.
I've also done deals where the trust was high (i.e. you may come across as an honest seller and he feels comfortable) and been sent staggering amounts for a sale ahead of collection that i'd never do myself. I've also left with a car and the complete V5C without paying. My bank blocked a payment on a Sunday standing this this chaps kitchen after I'd done a 4 hr train journey, the guy was happy for me to send the £12k payment the next day after he took a photo of my driving licence !
hope the sale goes well, and as I said, caution is good but not every sale is a scam - speak to your buyer.
I've been on the buyer side of a transaction like this. A lot of banks in the UK have a daily faster payments limit around £20k / £25k (some are as low as £10k) so payments have to be done from different accounts or over separate days. Speak to the buyer, but very possible he sent another payment from a second account just so he knows he can make all the payments needed on the day by using more than one account. Yeah, best to try with £1 in a normal world, but logic stands.
I've also done deals where the trust was high (i.e. you may come across as an honest seller and he feels comfortable) and been sent staggering amounts for a sale ahead of collection that i'd never do myself. I've also left with a car and the complete V5C without paying. My bank blocked a payment on a Sunday standing this this chaps kitchen after I'd done a 4 hr train journey, the guy was happy for me to send the £12k payment the next day after he took a photo of my driving licence !
hope the sale goes well, and as I said, caution is good but not every sale is a scam - speak to your buyer.
rotaryjam said:
Sorry for slow reply
I recieved the money via bank transfer.
We did haggle quite a bit and the price isnt amazing or unusual.
It gets straneger though, they sent me another £2,500. I asked why and they said they were testing out payments because something to do with the banks. I said it all seems very suspicious.... I sent them back everything except £500 depsit and said I want the rest on the day of pickup cleared in my account before I release the car.
So I am very suspicious of them but if I dont release the car until I have the money showing in full in my account how can I be scammed?
You sent it back?! Better to have their money than not shirley ...I recieved the money via bank transfer.
We did haggle quite a bit and the price isnt amazing or unusual.
It gets straneger though, they sent me another £2,500. I asked why and they said they were testing out payments because something to do with the banks. I said it all seems very suspicious.... I sent them back everything except £500 depsit and said I want the rest on the day of pickup cleared in my account before I release the car.
So I am very suspicious of them but if I dont release the car until I have the money showing in full in my account how can I be scammed?
Edited by rotaryjam on Saturday 5th March 22:09
Edited by rotaryjam on Saturday 5th March 22:22
TX.
The other thing is.
Truck arrives to collect car.
Buyer calls up later to say car isn't here. Where is it. Oh, it must be stolen by the truck guy. Wants refund.
Similar to the PS3 scam years ago. Someone bought my friends ps3. Paid online. Arranged to collect at a certain hour. Someone turned up an hour before that and collected it. Original buyer turns up on time to find ps3 gone. demands refund.
Original buyer takes money back then goes home to play ps3 with their mate who took it earlier...
Truck arrives to collect car.
Buyer calls up later to say car isn't here. Where is it. Oh, it must be stolen by the truck guy. Wants refund.
Similar to the PS3 scam years ago. Someone bought my friends ps3. Paid online. Arranged to collect at a certain hour. Someone turned up an hour before that and collected it. Original buyer turns up on time to find ps3 gone. demands refund.
Original buyer takes money back then goes home to play ps3 with their mate who took it earlier...
If you sent money back then I guess they gave you their account details on request.
The problem is it opens up another angle for the buyer to play silly buggers if they are not genuine.
It does seem to me that you are being set up for a 'bank problem' on the day of collection and they 'sort' it with Paypal.
Not many on this thread seem to think this is genuine, but only you can make that call.
The problem is it opens up another angle for the buyer to play silly buggers if they are not genuine.
It does seem to me that you are being set up for a 'bank problem' on the day of collection and they 'sort' it with Paypal.
Not many on this thread seem to think this is genuine, but only you can make that call.
Edited by GT9 on Sunday 6th March 10:19
So I have an update.
I decided to cancel the transaction as there are too many red flags though I'm concerned I may have already been duped...
Here is the full breakdown of what happened with more info I didnt include originally:
Buyer contacts me and we talk about the car (phone)
We exchange messages and eventually agree a price, nothing too special, a fair price.
He says its too far to travel and arranges collection and pays me £1 to check account and £300 deposit.
A few days later he says he cant go through with it. I volunteer to return the deposit and ask for his bank details.
A few days later he approaches me saying he wants to do a deal and offers me lower than before. Over the next few days we haggle and agree a new price slightly less than before but no biggie.
He pays £4,500 as a deposit then shortly after another £2,500. I phone him and say its really suspicious, he doesnt react to that accusation at all (red flag) and says soemthing about banks and ukraine changing security and that theres another £10,000 pending. I tell him im sending it back and will keep £500 for deposit and I want the rest in one payment on the day before collection. I ask why hes getting a courier and he says hes too busy with work (red flag)
I return the money and realise the return bank account name is slightly different suggesting its a differnt bank account from what he paid me - though I cant be sure (red flag)
I ask for courier details and he sends me a screenshot showing our addresses. I check his and its only 2 1/2 hours away - so why use a collection company? (red flag)
I decide to cancel the sale and refund the remaining £500 to them.
So what do you think? Am I being over cautious? I decided it just wasnt worth the risk.
Based on what I've read here though I'm thinking the money I returned to him is going in to a new account and either he is a) cleaning money through my account or b) sending the momey from an account which is not his so when funds are seized I lose the money and he skips off in to the sunset with the cash I returned to him - £7,000.
Any advice on what to do next?
I decided to cancel the transaction as there are too many red flags though I'm concerned I may have already been duped...
Here is the full breakdown of what happened with more info I didnt include originally:
Buyer contacts me and we talk about the car (phone)
We exchange messages and eventually agree a price, nothing too special, a fair price.
He says its too far to travel and arranges collection and pays me £1 to check account and £300 deposit.
A few days later he says he cant go through with it. I volunteer to return the deposit and ask for his bank details.
A few days later he approaches me saying he wants to do a deal and offers me lower than before. Over the next few days we haggle and agree a new price slightly less than before but no biggie.
He pays £4,500 as a deposit then shortly after another £2,500. I phone him and say its really suspicious, he doesnt react to that accusation at all (red flag) and says soemthing about banks and ukraine changing security and that theres another £10,000 pending. I tell him im sending it back and will keep £500 for deposit and I want the rest in one payment on the day before collection. I ask why hes getting a courier and he says hes too busy with work (red flag)
I return the money and realise the return bank account name is slightly different suggesting its a differnt bank account from what he paid me - though I cant be sure (red flag)
I ask for courier details and he sends me a screenshot showing our addresses. I check his and its only 2 1/2 hours away - so why use a collection company? (red flag)
I decide to cancel the sale and refund the remaining £500 to them.
So what do you think? Am I being over cautious? I decided it just wasnt worth the risk.
Based on what I've read here though I'm thinking the money I returned to him is going in to a new account and either he is a) cleaning money through my account or b) sending the momey from an account which is not his so when funds are seized I lose the money and he skips off in to the sunset with the cash I returned to him - £7,000.
Any advice on what to do next?
Edited by rotaryjam on Sunday 6th March 10:20
Honestly given the additions you have shared, I'm increasingly concerned for you, especially with the money you have already returned potentially being to a different account.
I'd ring your bank, and flag it to them at this point, just in case.
Can't really give any more advice. It's all very fishy.
I'd ring your bank, and flag it to them at this point, just in case.
Can't really give any more advice. It's all very fishy.
The way it may look to your bank is that you've received £7000 from person A and next week that turns out to be a fraudulent at the originating bank, so they recover it from your bank account.
The fact that you sent £7000 to person B is unrelated in their eyes, as it was possibly a different name and a different account.
If person A sends you more money again, do not send any more money to person B.
Wait until you can speak to your bank about this.
The fact that you sent £7000 to person B is unrelated in their eyes, as it was possibly a different name and a different account.
If person A sends you more money again, do not send any more money to person B.
Wait until you can speak to your bank about this.
k me OP - just move on and leave this joker behind.Rotary,
I would echo others’ concerns above. Definitely get on to your banks fraud team. Returning to the other account may help launder the money (best case) or you might find the original payment to you gets taken back, leaving you short.
Was the sending and receiving bank the same? Check the sort codes. Might help you if it was the same bank as you can argue they’ve had the money throughout.
You might also want to read up on your bank’s obligations to you, but hopefully that is getting ahead of ourselves…
I would echo others’ concerns above. Definitely get on to your banks fraud team. Returning to the other account may help launder the money (best case) or you might find the original payment to you gets taken back, leaving you short.
Was the sending and receiving bank the same? Check the sort codes. Might help you if it was the same bank as you can argue they’ve had the money throughout.
You might also want to read up on your bank’s obligations to you, but hopefully that is getting ahead of ourselves…
GT9 said:
The way it may look to your bank is that you've received £7000 from person A and next week that turns out to be a fraudulent at the originating bank, so they recover it from your bank account.
The fact that you sent £7000 to person B is unrelated in their eyes, as it was possibly a different name and a different account.
If person A sends you more money again, do not send any more money to person B.
Wait until you can speak to your bank about this.
This looks to be the scam I'm afraid. You'll keep the car but you'll lose £7k from your account.The fact that you sent £7000 to person B is unrelated in their eyes, as it was possibly a different name and a different account.
If person A sends you more money again, do not send any more money to person B.
Wait until you can speak to your bank about this.
rotaryjam said:
eliot said:
i’ll ask the same question again op: have you actually spoke to the buyer on a phone or is all this over email/electronic comms?
Yes ive spoken to themMust admit I thought once a bank xfer had arrived - it’s all good and can’t be reversed. So be interesting so see what the scam is.
The plot thickens...
I recieved another £5000 that they supposedly sent yesterday. Before doing anything I rang my bank.
My bank checks everything and says it sounds strange bit confirms the money is going back to the same account. They tell me to return the money to them and reasures me that the buyer cant recall the money they sent...
I go to transfer the money back as advised nd my own bank blocks my account and presumably the payment I was trying to make. Next step... back on the phone to my bank...
I recieved another £5000 that they supposedly sent yesterday. Before doing anything I rang my bank.
My bank checks everything and says it sounds strange bit confirms the money is going back to the same account. They tell me to return the money to them and reasures me that the buyer cant recall the money they sent...
I go to transfer the money back as advised nd my own bank blocks my account and presumably the payment I was trying to make. Next step... back on the phone to my bank...
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