Secondhand car price crash?
Discussion
SFTWend said:
highway said:
I thought that, by now, there would be a few used Lotus Emira advertised under £60k. Hasn’t happened. Low miles 991 S are still north of £45k even at 11/12 years old. 991.2, low miles cars, rarely go under £60k.
Aside from some big drops on M cars late last year, no sign of a crash. Certainly not on late year, desirable, low miles sports cars.
I share your frustration.Aside from some big drops on M cars late last year, no sign of a crash. Certainly not on late year, desirable, low miles sports cars.
ha03274 said:
It is nice seeing dealers listing their used approved cars high and refusing to negotiate on their price and watch the same car slowly be reduced every few weeks without any takers 
Its a proven process.Dont negotiate on price. Move price if it doesnt sell after X days.
Managed and controlled centrally.
Whilst we see some particular car as rare, awesome but unlikely to attract too many customers, they just see a unit. They treat that unit like any other unit on their forecourt and manage it accordingly.
ACCYSTAN said:
Anyone after a new or pre reg current shape MG3, dealership staff told me today they will be going cheap when the new MG3 hybrid lands early summer.
Useful info there for people looking for a basic new small car. They are already discounted to a little over 12k new, so did they indicate they will be less than that?My local Citroen dealer let me test drive a basic used C3 1.2 yesterday, same basically as a C3 You at 14k. Indicated strongly there was no room for any discount at all which I was a bit surprised at. Have to say the C3 went better than I expected (it's a slow car but not annoyingly so) and has a surprisingly good ride on the various awful road surfaces I found to drive it on.
Deep Thought said:
Its a proven process.
Dont negotiate on price. Move price if it doesnt sell after X days.
Managed and controlled centrally.
Whilst we see some particular car as rare, awesome but unlikely to attract too many customers, they just see a unit. They treat that unit like any other unit on their forecourt and manage it accordingly.
Oh I know but it does warm the heart knowing they turned down a higher offer a few weeks prior than what they've had to lower it to Dont negotiate on price. Move price if it doesnt sell after X days.
Managed and controlled centrally.
Whilst we see some particular car as rare, awesome but unlikely to attract too many customers, they just see a unit. They treat that unit like any other unit on their forecourt and manage it accordingly.
Deep Thought said:
ha03274 said:
It is nice seeing dealers listing their used approved cars high and refusing to negotiate on their price and watch the same car slowly be reduced every few weeks without any takers
Its a proven process.Dont negotiate on price. Move price if it doesnt sell after X days.
Managed and controlled centrally.
Whilst we see some particular car as rare, awesome but unlikely to attract too many customers, they just see a unit. They treat that unit like any other unit on their forecourt and manage it accordingly.
SFTWend said:
Dealership groups obviously know what they are doing. But by not giving sales managers any discretionary power they do end up making less, or losing money, on a number of units. On many occasions units have ended up selling for less than a fair offer from a prospective customer, plus cost of unit remaining on their books for longer.
I'm sure they know to two decimal places what percentage of cars that typically happens to over a year.If they've 100 cars on their forecourt and get asking price for 90, but the last ten they have to drop by £2K, that would work out better than giving £250 discount on each of all 100, and they'd be £5,000 a month better off.
Factor that with that many dealers who do that automatically track the AT prices and adjust theirs accordingly, then you have to ask well why would they offer a discount when they know we are the cheapest already?
Also if you get a name for discounting the sticker price then you're doomed to always do it.
The rule of thumb is usually something like "we will keep all cars on our forecourt for up to six weeks. If it doesnt find a buyer at the asking price in 6 weeks, then we will get what we can for it and replace it with another car we can get profit on".
Its quite mechanical, but does work.
I've been on the wrong end of it before and its quite irksome. You make an offer they reject it, then some weeks later you see the car advertised for less than you're offer.
Conversely i've been in the right place at the right time and got a car just when its been discounted. I remember my wife getting a year old 370Z GT with 9K miles on it for £19,995 from a car supermarket that really had had no idea what to do with it and couldnt sell it, so they discounted it back to what must have been cost to get it away.
SFTWend said:
Dealership groups obviously know what they are doing. But by not giving sales managers any discretionary power they do end up making less, or losing money, on a number of units. On many occasions units have ended up selling for less than a fair offer from a prospective customer, plus cost of unit remaining on their books for longer.
Yes this is what I feel both from watching the market and recent experience of buying a car from said dealerships but whether that's the reality...Deep Thought said:
I'm sure they know to two decimal places what percentage of cars that typically happens to over a year.
If they've 100 cars on their forecourt and get asking price for 90, but the last ten they have to drop by £2K, that would work out better than giving £250 discount on each of all 100, and they'd be £5,000 a month better off.
Factor that with that many dealers who do that automatically track the AT prices and adjust theirs accordingly, then you have to ask well why would they offer a discount when they know we are the cheapest already?
Also if you get a name for discounting the sticker price then you're doomed to always do it.
The rule of thumb is usually something like "we will keep all cars on our forecourt for up to six weeks. If it doesnt find a buyer at the asking price in 6 weeks, then we will get what we can for it and replace it with another car we can get profit on".
Its quite mechanical, but does work.
I've been on the wrong end of it before and its quite irksome. You make an offer they reject it, then some weeks later you see the car advertised for less than you're offer.
Conversely i've been in the right place at the right time and got a car just when its been discounted. I remember my wife getting a year old 370Z GT with 9K miles on it for £19,995 from a car supermarket that really had had no idea what to do with it and couldnt sell it, so they discounted it back to what must have been cost to get it away.
Makes sense but some of these cars have been sat on the lot for 6 months at these dealerships!If they've 100 cars on their forecourt and get asking price for 90, but the last ten they have to drop by £2K, that would work out better than giving £250 discount on each of all 100, and they'd be £5,000 a month better off.
Factor that with that many dealers who do that automatically track the AT prices and adjust theirs accordingly, then you have to ask well why would they offer a discount when they know we are the cheapest already?
Also if you get a name for discounting the sticker price then you're doomed to always do it.
The rule of thumb is usually something like "we will keep all cars on our forecourt for up to six weeks. If it doesnt find a buyer at the asking price in 6 weeks, then we will get what we can for it and replace it with another car we can get profit on".
Its quite mechanical, but does work.
I've been on the wrong end of it before and its quite irksome. You make an offer they reject it, then some weeks later you see the car advertised for less than you're offer.
Conversely i've been in the right place at the right time and got a car just when its been discounted. I remember my wife getting a year old 370Z GT with 9K miles on it for £19,995 from a car supermarket that really had had no idea what to do with it and couldnt sell it, so they discounted it back to what must have been cost to get it away.
ha03274 said:
Deep Thought said:
Its a proven process.
Dont negotiate on price. Move price if it doesnt sell after X days.
Managed and controlled centrally.
Whilst we see some particular car as rare, awesome but unlikely to attract too many customers, they just see a unit. They treat that unit like any other unit on their forecourt and manage it accordingly.
Oh I know but it does warm the heart knowing they turned down a higher offer a few weeks prior than what they've had to lower it to Dont negotiate on price. Move price if it doesnt sell after X days.
Managed and controlled centrally.
Whilst we see some particular car as rare, awesome but unlikely to attract too many customers, they just see a unit. They treat that unit like any other unit on their forecourt and manage it accordingly.
A few years back I was looking at a nearly new Astra SRI
The local Vauxhall dealer had a few in stock as did motorpoint about 2 miles from it
I went to the main dealer first whose cars were about £800-1000 more
They wouldn’t budge a penny
So I went down to motorpoint and bough the same car for a £1000 less
Next day I get a call from the salesman at the main dealer who says am I still interested in their car to which I tell him I bought one yesterday, and he says I thought you might have
A couple of days later they reduced their car to the same I’d paid at motorpoint and they still had it about three months later when I lost interest in seeing if they still had it
Just odd behaviour
Deep Thought said:
I'm sure they know to two decimal places what percentage of cars that typically happens to over a year.
If they've 100 cars on their forecourt and get asking price for 90, but the last ten they have to drop by £2K, that would work out better than giving £250 discount on each of all 100, and they'd be £5,000 a month better off.
Factor that with that many dealers who do that automatically track the AT prices and adjust theirs accordingly, then you have to ask well why would they offer a discount when they know we are the cheapest already?
Also if you get a name for discounting the sticker price then you're doomed to always do it.
The rule of thumb is usually something like "we will keep all cars on our forecourt for up to six weeks. If it doesnt find a buyer at the asking price in 6 weeks, then we will get what we can for it and replace it with another car we can get profit on".
Its quite mechanical, but does work.
I've been on the wrong end of it before and its quite irksome. You make an offer they reject it, then some weeks later you see the car advertised for less than you're offer.
Conversely i've been in the right place at the right time and got a car just when its been discounted. I remember my wife getting a year old 370Z GT with 9K miles on it for £19,995 from a car supermarket that really had had no idea what to do with it and couldnt sell it, so they discounted it back to what must have been cost to get it away.
Understood, but I'm not suggesting they should discount to everyone who asks. I'm referring to the unit that has had little interest and someone comes along with an offer that the sales manager knows, through experience, is the best price they will get for it.If they've 100 cars on their forecourt and get asking price for 90, but the last ten they have to drop by £2K, that would work out better than giving £250 discount on each of all 100, and they'd be £5,000 a month better off.
Factor that with that many dealers who do that automatically track the AT prices and adjust theirs accordingly, then you have to ask well why would they offer a discount when they know we are the cheapest already?
Also if you get a name for discounting the sticker price then you're doomed to always do it.
The rule of thumb is usually something like "we will keep all cars on our forecourt for up to six weeks. If it doesnt find a buyer at the asking price in 6 weeks, then we will get what we can for it and replace it with another car we can get profit on".
Its quite mechanical, but does work.
I've been on the wrong end of it before and its quite irksome. You make an offer they reject it, then some weeks later you see the car advertised for less than you're offer.
Conversely i've been in the right place at the right time and got a car just when its been discounted. I remember my wife getting a year old 370Z GT with 9K miles on it for £19,995 from a car supermarket that really had had no idea what to do with it and couldnt sell it, so they discounted it back to what must have been cost to get it away.
SFTWend said:
Understood, but I'm not suggesting they should discount to everyone who asks. I'm referring to the unit that has had little interest and someone comes along with an offer that the sales manager knows, through experience, is the best price they will get for it.
That requires an experienced sales manager.Good algorithms and less experienced staff can be more cost effective.
Deep Thought said:
Then they're not applying the method being described.
The car that sticks in my mind particularly had 3 price drops in that period each around £500 so approximately every 8 weeks (not far off your 6 week guide). Good spec and colour, just seems there isn't much interest perhaps due to people not keen to finance/pay a large amount at the moment plus the insurance on it is hefty due to performance.ha03274 said:
Deep Thought said:
Then they're not applying the method being described.
The car that sticks in my mind particularly had 3 price drops in that period each around £500 so approximately every 8 weeks (not far off your 6 week guide). Good spec and colour, just seems there isn't much interest perhaps due to people not keen to finance/pay a large amount at the moment plus the insurance on it is hefty due to performance.If they're otherwise happy having the car sitting there for whatever reason and arent open to price negotiation then theres not much anyone can do about that. Their business, their rules really.
From the private individuals perspective - which we are - if a dealer isnt selling a car at the price i want to buy it at and wont move on price then i'll look elsewhere. Theres nothing most of us will be looking at that will be in short enough supply to "have" to buy that particular car.
And again - the old adage - better to get £100 off a £40K car than get £4,000 off the same car at a different dealers priced at £44K. So its usually easier to find the right car at the right price in the first instance rather than try and convince a particular dealer of what you believe are the errors of his ways.
Lifes too short and all that.
Thing is in car sales, you never quite know what will sell quickly or slowly.
I remember numerous cars that were either rubbish spec, awful colour or just plain garbage that sold almost instantly at full price.
Highlight was a red Audi Allroad (special order colour but the factory messed up what shade of red it was) with the 2.7TT engine. Awful colour, wrong engine and we sold it the day it arrived for full price.
It was a cancelled order we took a punt on 'cos at the time, we sold more Allroads than any other dealer in the UK.
I remember numerous cars that were either rubbish spec, awful colour or just plain garbage that sold almost instantly at full price.
Highlight was a red Audi Allroad (special order colour but the factory messed up what shade of red it was) with the 2.7TT engine. Awful colour, wrong engine and we sold it the day it arrived for full price.
It was a cancelled order we took a punt on 'cos at the time, we sold more Allroads than any other dealer in the UK.
RayDonovan said:
In the market for a Tesla Model Y and checked some sale prices (dealer) v CAP HPI and the majority are asking under the CAP price.
Most in the £34k/£35k price range.
CAP is hopelessly off on prices of under 3/4 year old EVs in my opinion.Most in the £34k/£35k price range.
They rarely fetch anything like the "book" prices and across a range of vehicles can be purchased at retail at or under the CAP Clean price.
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