Secondhand car price crash?

[Trailhead]

joropug said:

Trailhead said:

That sounds like you’ll stay in the ropey Merc though. Is an older S5 better ? Maybe not ?

Probably, I have been looking to upgrade for a year lol keep talking myself out of it. It’s far from ropey though luckily.

Trouble is I fear what I have (a nice looking, C220cdi AMG Sport Plus coupe), which is economical, nice to drive, mint condition inside and out, is in a bit of a sweet spot value wise. I paid £8,800 for it in August 2019 and think I could sell it for £10,000 now - but for what I really want (next generation of infotainment, fast petrol auto, and the hardest criteria of passing the wife test! ) need to spend £25k plus really.

I have spent so long on autotrader the last few months I’m torturing myself, I think I have narrowed it down to:

2017 on E300 or more Coupe - but I want the full digital dash if I do and there is only one under £30k at the moment. Not that quick but I love the interior. I’d have a saloon but petrols seems to be E200 only.

2017 on facelift S3 if the price is right (sub £25k), but must have the quilted leather, upgrade alloys and digital dash.

2017 on S5 , they seem to be well equipped as standard vs the S3 and more modern - what I’m after seems to be £28k + though. I’d have an S4 too but less of them.

With the DSG/S Tronic boxes I don’t want to have a high mileage car ideally as they do attract all sorts, a lot of the cheaper ones seem to have had lots of owners etc.

Have you considered the Golf R? They have taken a real hit in price over the last 1-2 weeks.

[Deep Thought]

Al U said:

Deep Thought said:

Private sale though, not dealer.

Either unrealistic expectations or in no rush to sell, for whatever reason.

And on that topic, I think there are a lot of private listings knocking around at the moment where people are asking the same or very similar money to traders/dealers. Say what you like about traders/dealers but there are obviously benefits to buying through a trader/dealer and I think it's fair that some value is associated to that.

Private sellers putting their cars up at trade retail seems to be on the up on the cars I have seen and is quite wishful thinking I think.

That has been the case in recent years anyway.

Definitely wishful thinking.

[joropug]

Trailhead said:

Have you considered the Golf R? They have taken a real hit in price over the last 1-2 weeks.

I have indeed - I have always been averse to them after seeing all of the theft stories , watched a few buying guides that alluded to lots being clocked & stolen recovered,

I haven’t ruled them out but I think buying a good one will be a challenging exercise.

[Al U]

Trailhead said:

Have you considered the Golf R? They have taken a real hit in price over the last 1-2 weeks.

2017 onwards hatch 5 door auto's don't seem to have. Seem to still be looking at circa £25k for a half decent one. Barely any of them have leather as well which is a bit crap at that money.

[jimPH]

Deep Thought said:

Al U said:

Deep Thought said:

Private sale though, not dealer.

Either unrealistic expectations or in no rush to sell, for whatever reason.

And on that topic, I think there are a lot of private listings knocking around at the moment where people are asking the same or very similar money to traders/dealers. Say what you like about traders/dealers but there are obviously benefits to buying through a trader/dealer and I think it's fair that some value is associated to that.

Private sellers putting their cars up at trade retail seems to be on the up on the cars I have seen and is quite wishful thinking I think.

That has been the case in recent years anyway.

Definitely wishful thinking.

Not really. The only reason he comes up on my search is I've been tracking prices for a bakery of hot hatches and record the cheapest available. His is the cheapest for the given criteria.

2018+, <10k miles, etc.

I bet his isn't 10k miles anymore mind.

[Al U]

jimPH said:

Not really. The only reason he comes up on my search is I've been tracking prices for a bakery of hot hatches and record the cheapest available. His is the cheapest for the given criteria.

2018+, <10k miles, etc.

I bet his isn't 10k miles anymore mind.

Less than 10k miles on a 2018 car is a bit of a flawed data point though as such a small minority of the cars for sale will meet that criteria and will inevitably be at a higher price point.

If you want to compare prices it would be better to go with something closer to +/- average mileage for the age of car.

Edited to change annual to average mileage of a car which I think is 12k per year. I think I also said this the last time you posted the graph.

Edited by Al U on Friday 10th June 11:19

[Deep Thought]

jimPH said:

Not really. The only reason he comes up on my search is I've been tracking prices for a bakery of hot hatches and record the cheapest available. His is the cheapest for the given criteria.

2018+, <10k miles, etc.

I bet his isn't 10k miles anymore mind.

As per other comments its a flawed data point. Who wakes up and thinks "I want an S3 and it must be non older than 2018 and it must have less than 10,000 miles?"

In reality, nobody. Expand the search up to a still palatable 30k or maybe even 40k miles and his car starts to look very expensive.

[jimPH]

Al U said:

jimPH said:

Not really. The only reason he comes up on my search is I've been tracking prices for a bakery of hot hatches and record the cheapest available. His is the cheapest for the given criteria.

2018+, <10k miles, etc.

I bet his isn't 10k miles anymore mind.

Less than 10k miles on a 2018 car is a bit of a flawed data point though as such a small minority of the cars for sale will meet that criteria and will inevitably be at a higher price point.

If you want to compare prices it would be better to go with something closer to +/- annual mileage for the age of car.

It was my criteria when looking. Not in the market anymore, just comparing any change. The data is actually pretty representative of how the market has changed.

[Theoldguard]

Slightly off topic but still fits with the theme being discussed.

Been receiving various quotes the past few months for some building work, having to wait between 2-4 weeks just to get a quote due to how busy these trades say they are at the minute. (Although I believe it's more to do with a lack of labour rather than amount of extra work).

Anyhow, from the 4 quotes 2 cannot fit me in until end of October early November, and its those 2 who have now got back to me with a revised price (quoting material costs will be lower) and the other asking if I would go ahead if he could do the work in September rather than wait until October.

Now these 2 have a good rep and have done some nice work at friends houses, so you do wait slightly longer for their services, so interesting that 3 weeks after receiving the quote he gets in touch with a revised price that is lower and the other offering to bring the job forward a month, it could all be coincidence and other good reasons, or it could be people cancelling work or as we head into the Autumn / Winter work is drying up.

[Trailhead]

Al U said:

Trailhead said:

Have you considered the Golf R? They have taken a real hit in price over the last 1-2 weeks.

2017 onwards hatch 5 door auto's don't seem to have. Seem to still be looking at circa £25k for a half decent one. Barely any of them have leather as well which is a bit crap at that money.

I’ve been finding them at the £23k mark and that’s for a 19 reg. I think that’s cheap?

[Al U]

Trailhead said:

Al U said:

Trailhead said:

Have you considered the Golf R? They have taken a real hit in price over the last 1-2 weeks.

2017 onwards hatch 5 door auto's don't seem to have. Seem to still be looking at circa £25k for a half decent one. Barely any of them have leather as well which is a bit crap at that money.

I’ve been finding them at the £23k mark and that’s for a 19 reg. I think that’s cheap?

Depends on the mileage really. For that age I wouldn't want one above 45k miles. The cheapest 2019 Golf R 5dr Auto with less than 45k Miles on Autotrader at time of writing is £24900.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202205055...

Even if it was £23k I wouldn't call it cheap personally. Cheap against the other Golf R's "maybe" but not cheap in the grand scheme of things.

[iphonedyou]

joropug said:

Probably, I have been looking to upgrade for a year lol keep talking myself out of it. It’s far from ropey though luckily.

Trouble is I fear what I have (a nice looking, C220cdi AMG Sport Plus coupe), which is economical, nice to drive, mint condition inside and out, is in a bit of a sweet spot value wise. I paid £8,800 for it in August 2019 and think I could sell it for £10,000 now - but for what I really want (next generation of infotainment, fast petrol auto, and the hardest criteria of passing the wife test! ) need to spend £25k plus really.

I have spent so long on autotrader the last few months I’m torturing myself, I think I have narrowed it down to:

2017 on E300 or more Coupe - but I want the full digital dash if I do and there is only one under £30k at the moment. Not that quick but I love the interior. I’d have a saloon but petrols seems to be E200 only.

2017 on facelift S3 if the price is right (sub £25k), but must have the quilted leather, upgrade alloys and digital dash.

2017 on S5 , they seem to be well equipped as standard vs the S3 and more modern - what I’m after seems to be £28k + though. I’d have an S4 too but less of them.

With the DSG/S Tronic boxes I don’t want to have a high mileage car ideally as they do attract all sorts, a lot of the cheaper ones seem to have had lots of owners etc.

For what it's worth, I've a 2017 S3 with normal dash and I prefer the interior of it to my wife's 2021 Q3 sportback Vorsprung (digital dash, newer). But then I'm no fan of Audi's new buttonless interiors and Mercedes interiors are, to me, absolutely gash. But my point is it's not exactly a shed interior, and the digital dash really isn't all that after the initial five minutes of 'oh look, a screen'.

Edited by iphonedyou on Friday 10th June 15:33

[jimPH]

iphonedyou said:

joropug said:

Probably, I have been looking to upgrade for a year lol keep talking myself out of it. It’s far from ropey though luckily.

Trouble is I fear what I have (a nice looking, C220cdi AMG Sport Plus coupe), which is economical, nice to drive, mint condition inside and out, is in a bit of a sweet spot value wise. I paid £8,800 for it in August 2019 and think I could sell it for £10,000 now - but for what I really want (next generation of infotainment, fast petrol auto, and the hardest criteria of passing the wife test! ) need to spend £25k plus really.

I have spent so long on autotrader the last few months I’m torturing myself, I think I have narrowed it down to:

2017 on E300 or more Coupe - but I want the full digital dash if I do and there is only one under £30k at the moment. Not that quick but I love the interior. I’d have a saloon but petrols seems to be E200 only.

2017 on facelift S3 if the price is right (sub £25k), but must have the quilted leather, upgrade alloys and digital dash.

2017 on S5 , they seem to be well equipped as standard vs the S3 and more modern - what I’m after seems to be £28k + though. I’d have an S4 too but less of them.

With the DSG/S Tronic boxes I don’t want to have a high mileage car ideally as they do attract all sorts, a lot of the cheaper ones seem to have had lots of owners etc.

For what it's worth, I've a 2017 S3 with normal dash and I prefer the interior of it to my wife's 2021 Q3 sportback Vorsprung (digital dash, newer). But then I'm no fan of Audi's new buttonless interiors and Mercedes interiors are, to me, absolutely gash. But my point is it's not exactly a shed interior, and the digital dash really isn't all that after the initial five minutes of 'oh look, a screen'.

Edited by iphonedyou on Friday 10th June 15:33

Digital dash is absolutely brilliant. Wouldn't like to go back now.

That along with HUD and multibeam headlights is a gamechanger for the diving experience on the road.

[The Cardinal]

Likewise, I went from a 2018 facelift S3 with the digital dash to a pre-facelift RS3 without it and I echo the comment about it making little difference. I miss the wireless charging and superior bluetooth / streaming integration far more.

[pb8g09]

Theoldguard said:

Slightly off topic but still fits with the theme being discussed.

Been receiving various quotes the past few months for some building work, having to wait between 2-4 weeks just to get a quote due to how busy these trades say they are at the minute. (Although I believe it's more to do with a lack of labour rather than amount of extra work).

Anyhow, from the 4 quotes 2 cannot fit me in until end of October early November, and its those 2 who have now got back to me with a revised price (quoting material costs will be lower) and the other asking if I would go ahead if he could do the work in September rather than wait until October.

Now these 2 have a good rep and have done some nice work at friends houses, so you do wait slightly longer for their services, so interesting that 3 weeks after receiving the quote he gets in touch with a revised price that is lower and the other offering to bring the job forward a month, it could all be coincidence and other good reasons, or it could be people cancelling work or as we head into the Autumn / Winter work is drying up.

Completely off topic and category and industry and factors.

[Jiebo]

pb8g09 said:

Completely off topic and category and industry and factors.

I don't think it is. Sentiment drives a lot of the current demand, as many people are still seeing blue skies ahead.

The US consumer sentiment index has fallen the lowest on record - lower than the financial crisis, lower than tech bubble, lower than other things that have happened during the 1980s/1990s/2000s. This is quite a big deal.

Some people, myself included, have started seeing the potential for a deep recession in Europe and potential job losses. So knowing this looming cloud of despair is on the horizon, do I spend £20k on a car / £50k on a renovation / take out a large loan, or do I hold back and keep the money aside for the rainy days ahead in case I lose my job? This all feeds into demand, and then prices of assets.

[joropug]

The Cardinal said:

Likewise, I went from a 2018 facelift S3 with the digital dash to a pre-facelift RS3 without it and I echo the comment about it making little difference. I miss the wireless charging and superior bluetooth / streaming integration far more.

The basic S3s look , well, basic.

Out of curiosity I just revisited Cupras - some nice looking cars and quite a bit cheaper. Plenty of 2018/2019 with digital cockpit for £22k and below. Might test drive one.

[troika]

Jiebo said:

I don't think it is. Sentiment drives a lot of the current demand, as many people are still seeing blue skies ahead.

The US consumer sentiment index has fallen the lowest on record - lower than the financial crisis, lower than tech bubble, lower than other things that have happened during the 1980s/1990s/2000s. This is quite a big deal.

Some people, myself included, have started seeing the potential for a deep recession in Europe and potential job losses. So knowing this looming cloud of despair is on the horizon, do I spend £20k on a car / £50k on a renovation / take out a large loan, or do I hold back and keep the money aside for the rainy days ahead in case I lose my job? This all feeds into demand, and then prices of assets.

Absolutely. Irrespective of supply, people ain’t going to pay silly prices for cars moving forward, particularly if they haven’t got the money!

[pb8g09]

troika said:

Absolutely. Irrespective of supply, people ain’t going to pay silly prices for cars moving forward, particularly if they haven’t got the money!

People who have cash will still spend it on home improvements because they believe it is well spent as houses ‘always go up in value’ whereas cars over their lifetime (ignoring this 18month blimp) always decrease. Therefore yes it’s a different industry and different market forces at play. Jesus.

[80s-new-man]

pb8g09 said:

People who have cash will still spend it on home improvements because they believe it is well spent as houses ‘always go up in value’ whereas cars over their lifetime (ignoring this 18month blimp) always decrease. Therefore yes it’s a different industry and different market forces at play. Jesus.

For your daily Renault migraine- yes… but for anything with character nope. Sierra Cosworth just one example.