Secondhand car price crash?

[Evil.soup]

ChrisH72 said:

Problem with buying sports cars in retirement is you're no longer able to get in and out of them.

For me it's not just the money. I can afford to pay today's inflated prices but there doesn't seem to be much out there that inspires me to go and spend it. I've changed cars every 3 years just because, and it's never cost that much to do so. Now the cost to change is quite a lot more it makes me question if its worth it. Certainly for cars I look at a 30% increase since before covid is very Conservative. In some cases its closer to 100%. In 2020 I bought my 2017 ST3 from a Ford dealer for 9k. The 2020 cars I'm now looking at start at 18k. That's a lot to pay for a small upgrade. Not saying I won't do it, but I'm searching quite hard for a suitable car which is worth 10k more than mine and struggling to come up with much. If I had driveway space for a toy that would work but unfortunately where I live it's difficult.

I can totally see where you are coming from. I am similar, I am now in a position to buy a car out right, but there is a big part of me that can't justify it now I have the money to do it. There are 3 main reasons, the first being I can't stomach paying 4 to 5 grand more for a car I was looking at in early 2020 that is now 3 years older, it doesn't sit well with me.
There is also the other fact that I can't seem to find anything that really moves me anymore. Nothing really offers me much more performance than I already have unless I am spending 10's of thousands for it.
The 3rd issue is, now that I have accumulated actual cash, I find the idea of parting with it difficult to swallow. It's quite strange really, because when I didn't have cash and needed finance, I found it much easier to justify spending money I didn't have, than spending actual cash now...

[anonymous-user]

Evil.soup said:

The 3rd issue is, now that I have accumulated actual cash, I find the idea of parting with it difficult to swallow. It's quite strange really, because when I didn't have cash and needed finance, I found it much easier to justify spending money I didn't have, than spending actual cash now...

This is a big thing for me, I am in the ULEZ zone so needed to buy another car. With all this talk of banning ICE sales in 2030 I decided that I would just buy a brand new car and then I wouldn't need to worry about it again. I have the cash to buy the car outright.

But as it got closer and closer to the delivery date I realised I wasn't at all excited about this car and I really didn't want to see my savings go down by that amount. In the end it bothered me so much that I cancelled the order and bought something for £4K instead.

I think when people buy a car on finance just as you are about to sign the paperwork they should bring the money into the room in a carrier bag and get you to count it first. I wonder how many people would reconsider after seeing piles and piles of £20 notes in front on them?

[nickfrog]

Joey Deacon said:

But as it got closer and closer to the delivery date I realised I wasn't at all excited about this car and I really didn't want to see my savings go down by that amount. In the end it bothered me so much that I cancelled the order and bought something for £4K instead.

You could have saved £4k of savings and make to with the car you had before, no?

[anonymous-user]

nickfrog said:

You could have saved £4k of savings and make to with the car you had before, no?

Euro 4 diesel, come August 29th it would have been £12.50 every day I used it. I spent a few months looking for the right car, plus there are over 200K non compliant cars in the zone, I suspect a lot of them will be looking for compliant cars in the near future.

Thought I would buy something early and take my time looking.

[nickfrog]

Joey Deacon said:

Euro 4 diesel, come August 29th it would have been £12.50 every day I used it. I spent a few months looking for the right car, plus there are over 200K non compliant cars in the zone, I suspect a lot of them will be looking for compliant cars in the near future.

Thought I would buy something early and take my time looking.

£12.50? Wow, I don't blame you. This wil be quite a factor keeping some car values high but then again non compliant car values should drop and might work well for someone who may not be under that constraint.

[lornemalvo]

Evil.soup said:

ChrisH72 said:

Problem with buying sports cars in retirement is you're no longer able to get in and out of them.

For me it's not just the money. I can afford to pay today's inflated prices but there doesn't seem to be much out there that inspires me to go and spend it. I've changed cars every 3 years just because, and it's never cost that much to do so. Now the cost to change is quite a lot more it makes me question if its worth it. Certainly for cars I look at a 30% increase since before covid is very Conservative. In some cases its closer to 100%. In 2020 I bought my 2017 ST3 from a Ford dealer for 9k. The 2020 cars I'm now looking at start at 18k. That's a lot to pay for a small upgrade. Not saying I won't do it, but I'm searching quite hard for a suitable car which is worth 10k more than mine and struggling to come up with much. If I had driveway space for a toy that would work but unfortunately where I live it's difficult.

I can totally see where you are coming from. I am similar, I am now in a position to buy a car out right, but there is a big part of me that can't justify it now I have the money to do it. There are 3 main reasons, the first being I can't stomach paying 4 to 5 grand more for a car I was looking at in early 2020 that is now 3 years older, it doesn't sit well with me.
There is also the other fact that I can't seem to find anything that really moves me anymore. Nothing really offers me much more performance than I already have unless I am spending 10's of thousands for it.
The 3rd issue is, now that I have accumulated actual cash, I find the idea of parting with it difficult to swallow. It's quite strange really, because when I didn't have cash and needed finance, I found it much easier to justify spending money I didn't have, than spending actual cash now...

Exactly the position I'm in. It's a bit frustrating because for many years I couldn't afford cards i really wanted. Now I can afford it I'm not seeing value for money, which is important to me. Also, nothing jumps out as being particularly desirable. Why have cars become so damned mediocre over the years?

[Saweep]

Joey Deacon said:

This is a big thing for me, I am in the ULEZ zone so needed to buy another car. With all this talk of banning ICE sales in 2030 I decided that I would just buy a brand new car and then I wouldn't need to worry about it again. I have the cash to buy the car outright.

But as it got closer and closer to the delivery date I realised I wasn't at all excited about this car and I really didn't want to see my savings go down by that amount. In the end it bothered me so much that I cancelled the order and bought something for £4K instead.

I think when people buy a car on finance just as you are about to sign the paperwork they should bring the money into the room in a carrier bag and get you to count it first. I wonder how many people would reconsider after seeing piles and piles of £20 notes in front on them?

I finance my cars for the same reason, despite always having the funds.

I'd rather pay the interest and have cash to hand. Of course, lots would say that was financially illiterate but it helps me sleep at night and that's all that matters.

Weirdly I'm the opposite with houses. I have to buy them cash or I wouldn't be able to sleep knowing I had a mortgage.

I'm clearly a strange person but am lucky enough to be able to do it this way.

[Evil.soup]

lornemalvo said:

Evil.soup said:

ChrisH72 said:

Problem with buying sports cars in retirement is you're no longer able to get in and out of them.

For me it's not just the money. I can afford to pay today's inflated prices but there doesn't seem to be much out there that inspires me to go and spend it. I've changed cars every 3 years just because, and it's never cost that much to do so. Now the cost to change is quite a lot more it makes me question if its worth it. Certainly for cars I look at a 30% increase since before covid is very Conservative. In some cases its closer to 100%. In 2020 I bought my 2017 ST3 from a Ford dealer for 9k. The 2020 cars I'm now looking at start at 18k. That's a lot to pay for a small upgrade. Not saying I won't do it, but I'm searching quite hard for a suitable car which is worth 10k more than mine and struggling to come up with much. If I had driveway space for a toy that would work but unfortunately where I live it's difficult.

I can totally see where you are coming from. I am similar, I am now in a position to buy a car out right, but there is a big part of me that can't justify it now I have the money to do it. There are 3 main reasons, the first being I can't stomach paying 4 to 5 grand more for a car I was looking at in early 2020 that is now 3 years older, it doesn't sit well with me.
There is also the other fact that I can't seem to find anything that really moves me anymore. Nothing really offers me much more performance than I already have unless I am spending 10's of thousands for it.
The 3rd issue is, now that I have accumulated actual cash, I find the idea of parting with it difficult to swallow. It's quite strange really, because when I didn't have cash and needed finance, I found it much easier to justify spending money I didn't have, than spending actual cash now...

Exactly the position I'm in. It's a bit frustrating because for many years I couldn't afford cards i really wanted. Now I can afford it I'm not seeing value for money, which is important to me. Also, nothing jumps out as being particularly desirable. Why have cars become so damned mediocre over the years?

I do think cars have become far less interesting these days, big bhp because that's what makes a car better, under stated design, auto boxes, fake engine noises or mapped in pops and bangs, they are just point and shoot cars in the most part these days. None of this is helped either by the fact even a 1ltr car looks the same as the hot version since there is the S, A, R, ST-Line etc. ranges for every brand.

My current car is at least different and interesting, it's a rare sight and people are interested to hear more about it. It isn't of course as quick in a straight line as these big 400hp hatches, but it can hold it's own, it makes a great noise naturally and is blistering point to point on a B-Road.

There are only a couple of cars that have kind of interested me, MK3 Focus RS, but my budget will only get me in the bottom end of this and what more am I actually getting? GR Yaris, out of my price range currently but one of the few cars that seems to carry the same ethos as the Impreza. Then there is the outgoing WRX STi, again, great car, but what more am I getting for my money...

[996Type]

I was going to start a separate thread but I went to view a car this Sunday at a main dealer, part of a group of three in a manufacturer franchise and it’s related to this topic.

I was looking for a cost to change from a 10 year old 100K mile car into a three year old equivalent at maybe 60K, me being the big spender I am….

I mentioned in passing I was looking at other cars on the manufacturers own used approved list that had brought me to this dealership and the sales guy then spent 15 of the 20 minutes allocated to me searching for a car I mentioned I liked the look of elsewhere (as a frame of reference) ripping it apart and outlining why it shouldn’t be being sold through approved used, as opposed to running through what my options would be with themselves regards the one I had come to view.

He then asked in response to a direct question from me (as time was short) regards the cost to change, which car it would be against, and I highlighted the one on the forecourt we had just had a quick tour of, the one I came to see….

They couldn’t provide a trade in price without seeing my vehicle (fair enough) so I outlined it was in their car park and would they mind stepping just outside the door to look at it (in all it’s used glory). But then I was told as I was doing 1000 miles per month, any value they could give me might be negated when I drive away.

No problem, I countered, what’s your name and phone number and I’ll ring you and we can maybe get something done this week as I’m remote from the dealership but will be driving by again Wednesday. Ah, apologies we can’t give out direct phone numbers so you’ll just have to try your luck when you ring back in.

I work in sales myself and it got to the point I was throwing in lots of buying signs just to try and get the conversation moving but it just appeared the interest to sell me the car was much smaller than my desire to buy it, which surprised me a bit.

I do think I will avoid that particular branch in future though.

Not sure if dealers are so busy still they expect the sales to roll in despite their show room methods or if a correction might be due soon.

[Scootersp]

nickfrog said:

£12.50? Wow, I don't blame you. This wil be quite a factor keeping some car values high but then again non compliant car values should drop and might work well for someone who may not be under that constraint.

Already seeing a few cars come out of the woodwork as the issue becomes more known, there are what I'd call quite/very modern cars that come into the category and potentially some nice old petrols just falling foul of the ULEZ limits but a long way from being 40 years old.

Like the £600 VED shift there are likely to be some makes/models (particularly diesels) that are very hard to sell/potential bargains.

2015 Toyota Landcruiser
2014 Old shape XC90
2012 BMW 520

prices not really that different now, it remains to be seen if these suffer a lot as we get closer and go past the deadline, can't see WBAC etc wanting to be lumbered with too many. It's obviously a regional impact but, these are still reasonably (very to some) old cars and others outside any zones still might be nervous of purchasing in case of changes closer to home, £12.50 daily kills any value proposition dead will people deem it a risk worth taking?

[Evil.soup]

Joey Deacon said:

Evil.soup said:

The 3rd issue is, now that I have accumulated actual cash, I find the idea of parting with it difficult to swallow. It's quite strange really, because when I didn't have cash and needed finance, I found it much easier to justify spending money I didn't have, than spending actual cash now...

This is a big thing for me, I am in the ULEZ zone so needed to buy another car. With all this talk of banning ICE sales in 2030 I decided that I would just buy a brand new car and then I wouldn't need to worry about it again. I have the cash to buy the car outright.

But as it got closer and closer to the delivery date I realised I wasn't at all excited about this car and I really didn't want to see my savings go down by that amount. In the end it bothered me so much that I cancelled the order and bought something for £4K instead.

I think when people buy a car on finance just as you are about to sign the paperwork they should bring the money into the room in a carrier bag and get you to count it first. I wonder how many people would reconsider after seeing piles and piles of £20 notes in front on them?

Yes, I think its the thought of seeing the money, as in, the real cash, just disappear from an account and turn into a car. Where finance is concerned, in the old sense, you see a car turn into money over time as you pay it off to ownership or at least owning a big part of it. Of course, these days, people don't even pay cars off, they don't own even a wiper blade in many cases, so it's absolute money burning.

[MrManual]

Interesting to see that the number of cars for sale on Autotrader is currently at 417k which is the highest it's been on a Monday for quite some time.

Usually Monday figures have been around 409-413k

[J1mS]

I was talking to the BMW salesman I bought my car from and he was saying they cannot get stock and when they do it sells almost straight away. As was the case with mine, I enquired before they had got any pictures up.

I also noticed a very similar car spec wise to mine same year with slightly higher mileage for £1,000 more than I paid for mine a month ago.

[anonymous-user]

Scootersp said:

Already seeing a few cars come out of the woodwork as the issue becomes more known, there are what I'd call quite/very modern cars that come into the category and potentially some nice old petrols just falling foul of the ULEZ limits but a long way from being 40 years old.

Like the £600 VED shift there are likely to be some makes/models (particularly diesels) that are very hard to sell/potential bargains.

2015 Toyota Landcruiser
2014 Old shape XC90
2012 BMW 520

prices not really that different now, it remains to be seen if these suffer a lot as we get closer and go past the deadline, can't see WBAC etc wanting to be lumbered with too many. It's obviously a regional impact but, these are still reasonably (very to some) old cars and others outside any zones still might be nervous of purchasing in case of changes closer to home, £12.50 daily kills any value proposition dead will people deem it a risk worth taking?

When I walk around where I live I see a never ending line of late diesel cars (2012 to 2015) that are not going to be compliant come August 29th. Lots of big, prestige SUVs, as well as late Audi/Mercedes/BMW diesels that are all going to have to pay £12.50 a day in just over 5 months.

No idea what their plans are, and as you say who in their right mind is going to buy one if they live around here. Greater London doesn't sound that big an area, but if you look it is effectively everywhere inside the M25 which means it covers a massive area.

And even if you don't live inside the zone, chances are you will frequently need to pop inside if you live on the outskirts.

They are already putting bags over the cameras where I live and it doesn't go live for another 5 months. I just wonder if everyone is going to panic at the same time and anything ULEZ compliant will instantly get snapped up?

[MrManual]

Joey Deacon said:

When I walk around where I live I see a never ending line of late diesel cars (2012 to 2015) that are not going to be compliant come August 29th. Lots of big, prestige SUVs, as well as late Audi/Mercedes/BMW diesels that are all going to have to pay £12.50 a day in just over 5 months.

No idea what their plans are, and as you say who in their right mind is going to buy one if they live around here. Greater London doesn't sound that big an area, but if you look it is effectively everywhere inside the M25 which means it covers a massive area.

And even if you don't live inside the zone, chances are you will frequently need to pop inside if you live on the outskirts.

They are already putting bags over the cameras where I live and it doesn't go live for another 5 months. I just wonder if everyone is going to panic at the same time and anything ULEZ compliant will instantly get snapped up?

I think the general public are aware of the stock shortages and some of them are aware of the lack of electric charging infrastructure. Therefore they are trying to move on their non-ULEZ compliant car ASAP and try to get as much money as they can.

At the end of the day it's the people on average and below average incomes that will suffer the most. To expect a family that lives in Kent or Essex because they cannot afford London rent/mortgage to then fork out more money on a car during the current ongoing financial climate where credit is no longer cheap. I am also guessing some of these non-ULEZ cars are perfectly good family cars with all the luxuries that someone would need. I'm thinking about the Volvo D5 engine in XC90 or V70 etc. They aren't ULEZ compliant but they are brilliant cars for a family.

[duckson]

Just bought a Fiesta ST Edition (with some nice Mountune extras) at a local Ford dealer, it disappeared from Auto Trader about an hour after I had spotted it and so I went to the dealers page directly where it was still listed for a while longer until it went from there as well.
Contacted them and they told me it hadn’t been sold but they had pulled it temporarily to deal with all the enquiries before things got silly!

[ashleyman]

LivLL said:

ChrisH72 said:

LivLL said:

ChrisH72 said:

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2023031853...

A great example of how hard dealers are trying to sell their cars!

""Vehicle just arrived - Awaiting Vehicle Prep. More details and photos to follow shortly.""

10 minute job to wash it

I know but its not a new phenomenon that somehow shows the state of the market.

I'm sure they'll update the photos but in the meantime the car is listed and could sell.

Pictures added for this. How long before it's sold I wonder...

[Macron]

MrManual said:

Interesting to see that the number of cars for sale on Autotrader is currently at 417k which is the highest it's been on a Monday for quite some time.

Usually Monday figures have been around 409-413k

Is a 1% increase really a big deal?

[volvos60s60]

nickfrog said:

£12.50? Wow, I don't blame you. This wil be quite a factor keeping some car values high but then again non compliant car values should drop and might work well for someone who may not be under that constraint.

We are into this debate at home re my wife's 2014 Diesel Evoque. Had it from new, 60000 miles, great condition & nothing wrong with it, worth maybe £15K. We live 3 miles outside ULEZ & almost every journey would incur £12.50/day.

So, to my mind as she likes an SUV driving position, we have the following choices:

1. A newer diesel SUV. which is pointless due to likely moving of goalposts on Euro 6 diesels
2. A petrol SUV, which is not viable as too uneconomical
3. An electric SEV - not convinced it's the right option right for us but in any event would need to add £35K to the Evoque to get anything nearly comparable in terms of size & luxury. So on a £50K electric SUV depreciation would be likely say £5K a year mimimum, probably more in the early years
4. We keep the Evoque, pay £12.50 say 4 times a week, which is £2.5K/year.

No. 4, we have decided, is the right answer for us in the current crazy world of car inflation. It's not that we can't afford to change, it's that it simply does not make a good enough case to do so.

[Theoldguard]

Saweep said:

I finance my cars for the same reason, despite always having the funds.

I'd rather pay the interest and have cash to hand. Of course, lots would say that was financially illiterate but it helps me sleep at night and that's all that matters.

Weirdly I'm the opposite with houses. I have to buy them cash or I wouldn't be able to sleep knowing I had a mortgage.

I'm clearly a strange person but am lucky enough to be able to do it this way.

Your certainly not alone, everyone wants to clear their mortgage and own the house, very few choose to do the same with their cars.

I dunno its funny, like many on here in a position to pay cash, but find it very difficult to hand over the money being asked now and see that account drop by x, and then have that amount of money tied up on the drive way and pulling the next day into the supermarket car park. I also don't like paying interest so tend to lease as it just feels like everything is all rolled into one and you don't really see the interest charges like PCP. If the price is right and it feels value for money I will buy for cash just like I did with my last 2 leases, in the knowldge that after 2 years of leasing from new I was being offered a car at close to 50% less than RRP, that felt like 2 years of interest free motoring and some.