How the hell do people afford cars these days?

[mrdanbartlett]

Deep Thought said:

I'd strongly recommend a Z4 3.0Si Coupe. Pic of mine for posterity.



I gave £7,500 for that and then £1,200 ish for the alloys. Probably worth around £11K ish now sitting like that. Your £10K budget would definitely get you one and they're starting to move upwards in value.

We had a 370Z GT previously which would also be a good shout. Similar ish pricing.

SOUND
FOAM
MOD


Thank me later.

[Deep Thought]

mrdanbartlett said:

Deep Thought said:

I'd strongly recommend a Z4 3.0Si Coupe. Pic of mine for posterity.



I gave £7,500 for that and then £1,200 ish for the alloys. Probably worth around £11K ish now sitting like that. Your £10K budget would definitely get you one and they're starting to move upwards in value.

We had a 370Z GT previously which would also be a good shout. Similar ish pricing.

SOUND
FOAM
MOD


Thank me later.

Done already by previous owner

Coilovers on order. I've my eye on a Scorpion stainless steel exhaust next which should give it a nice woofle.

Its been a great car to be honest. Bought two years ago and still love it.

[Jonny Wishbone]

I park 5 mins walk way from my kids' school. It's not because I'm virtuous in any way, in fact I'm a lazy bd. But I'm buggered if I'm parking the B3 anywhere near the Dodgem's arena that is the Chelsea Tractor car park that the road adjacent to the school becomes at drop-off/pick up time. Ditto the supermarket.

Deep Thought said:

I'd strongly recommend a Z4 3.0Si Coupe. Pic of mine for posterity.



I gave £7,500 for that and then £1,200 ish for the alloys. Probably worth around £11K ish now sitting like that. Your £10K budget would definitely get you one and they're starting to move upwards in value.

We had a 370Z GT previously which would also be a good shout. Similar ish pricing.

Love that. I had an E86 from a thousand miles off new^ for 7 years and it's the only car I've owned I regret selling. Sodding kids.



^To keep the thread on topic, cash!

[Deep Thought]

Jonny Wishbone said:

Love that. I had an E86 from a thousand miles off new^ for 7 years and it's the only car I've owned I regret selling. Sodding kids.



^To keep the thread on topic, cash!

We'd one from new back from 2007 to 2010. It was on PCP with the intention of clearing the balance at the end of the term. That was during the used car market price crash and the residual was something like £18K when the car was worth maybe £14K, so we handed it back with immediate great regret.

The opportunity came up to buy this one and i jumped at it. Nothing like it for the money IMHO.

[nickfrog]

Ice_blue_tvr said:

Likely true for PH'ers, but not for the average school run mum. I'm sure it also explains why they spend 10mins doing the round to find a space where they can be seen, rather than parking 1min away and walking.

All in your head. What's an average school run mum anyway?

[anonymous-user]

Mirinjawbro said:

there is such an obsession on this forum with how people pay for cars and from reading most of the "older" crowd seem to be so happy that they have paid outright for the car and slag anyone off to feel superior who hasn't. what they seem to forgot is you probably got your first house with 2 years salary. now your looking at 10 x the salary. that's just one example

my wage is over 10x what my car cost. but instead of saving for it i got it on finance because i wanted it then. in a few months ill clear it off

does that mean i cant afford it?

I'm not slagging you off. I'm expressing my personal discomfort with using a lot of finance in the current economic climate. Paying for a car outright shouldn't be a big deal. Starting off in an older smaller car and buying a few tools & a workshop manual not only allow folk to put savings aside but the maintenance skills they learn are also a valuable life skill. Whilst they own that car they can put the equivalent of car finance payments into a savings account. A few years later they have the cash available to purchase their next car outright. Continue this cycle & the result is that you always own your cars outright and save thousands in interest payments on every car from that first one on.

If your wage is >10x what your car cost and you still needed to finance it until you saved up, then YOU COULDN'T AFFORD IT. If I walk into the fish & chip shop with £1 in my pocket, I ain't going to be eating a fish-supper am I?

And FWIW, I'm 48, bought my first house at the height of the (then) market when I was 32 for 7.5 times my salary at mortgage rates around 7-8%. Older buyers who bought a decade or two before me might have paid 3-4 times their salary but had mortgage rates of around 20%. It wasn't that long ago that people went without a car & took the bus, wore a jumper at home if they were cold, bought second-hand furniture, & prepared cheap home-cooked meals. People didn't finance stuff because they "wanted it then". They scrimped & saved & sacrificed & after a number of years achieved financial security. Job situations & health can change in the blink of an eye & that easily payable finance can overnight become a ball 'n chain that's dragging you down.

pb8g09 said:

I'm guessing it's because the older folk on here that buy cars for cash have saved for a while to be able to do that (I'm doing it myself right now), so there's potentially some resentment when they see their yuppy neighbour in a £50/60k car on finance whilst they've just dropped 2 years of savings on a 5 year old Octavia estate. I think we can all understand that feeling, but it's then when the "just wait until the interest rates bang up and the debt collectors come in!". Not really, they'll just sell the expensive motor (potentially at a profit at the moment) and pcp a £30k car instead knowing they got to rattle around in a £60k car for a couple of years.

..... when really that sad old git was just stood there mentally judging the credit junky for having a nicer car than him.

Interest rates aren't going to "bang up". Even if they went to 3%, that would be very modest to anyone other than the over-committed. That "sad old git" who's driving a 5 yr old Octavia couldn't give a monkeys about someone in a £60k car. If they did, then they'd go & finance a £60k motor themselves. Here's a little tip: If interest rates/economy/recession moved to a point where many heavily indebted people were defaulting on their car payments then those folk will be lucky to sell that 'expensive car' for a sum that will come remotely close to covering what's owed on it let alone make a profit. That ship will have already sailed.

ChocolateFrog said:

Semi-retired, so unlikely to be laden with £50k of student debt at 6% interest at 21 and house prices that are 10 times or more than the average wage, those pesky entitled youngsters look at them with their iPhones and flat screen TVs.

I don't like the term but gammon seems to fit quite nicely.

I did uni. Worked 30+ hrs a week & a lot more during holiday periods to fund it without debt. Most of my generation didn't have a sense of entitlement & taking employment whilst at college or uni was the norm. I stayed at home, studied, worked, took no holidays & had little social life outside of work & football. It was a sacrifice but it was great being young & having the energy to combine study with an almost FT job. You'll never get a more generous form of loan than student debt so put your violin away. And if you want to buy your first property (assuming you're out-with the SE) & it's costing you 10x your wage then I'll respectfully suggest that your expectations are vastly out of whack with your means.

"Gammon"? Come & have a sensible debate when you turn 20.

[Fusion777]

A lot of people forget that the person with the paid off "cheaper" car could quite likely easily afford a new car on PCP/lease, they just choose not to for whatever reason. A few might have scrimped and saved to buy their car while still not having much in the way of spare cash afterwards, but a lot of people that own their cars probably have decent reserves and/or spare income every month.

Sometimes it's just a nice feeling knowing you "could" afford something, if you wanted to.

[Deep Thought]

Fusion777 said:

A lot of people forget that the person with the paid off "cheaper" car could quite likely easily afford a new car on PCP/lease, they just choose not to for whatever reason. A few might have scrimped and saved to buy their car while still not having much in the way of spare cash afterwards, but a lot of people that own their cars probably have decent reserves and/or spare income every month.

Sometimes it's just a nice feeling knowing you "could" afford something, if you wanted to.

I dont think anyone with a PCP or lease "forgets" that, they just dont care because its none of their business. However it does seem that some of those who chose to run a cheaper car seem to care quite a lot about what others chose to do with their money.

Its not difficult at all to go out and PCP a new car. Noone is saying it is, or that it proves anything.

[SpookyTheFirst]

My startup works fine….

[Deep Thought]

Romford4 said:

Interest rates aren't going to "bang up". Even if they went to 3%, that would be very modest to anyone other than the over-committed. That "sad old git" who's driving a 5 yr old Octavia couldn't give a monkeys about someone in a £60k car. If they did, then they'd go & finance a £60k motor themselves. Here's a little tip: If interest rates/economy/recession moved to a point where many heavily indebted people were defaulting on their car payments then those folk will be lucky to sell that 'expensive car' for a sum that will come remotely close to covering what's owed on it let alone make a profit. That ship will have already sailed.

Generally they wont give a stuff, correct.

However theres definitely a minority who do seem to have a beef with others chosing to finance a car better than the one they've chosen to buy outright.

And that minority rarely ever sing the praises of cheap motoring either - they're generally quite bitter and gleefully hope that the PCP and leasers will get their comeuppance.

[nickfrog]

Deep Thought said:

Wow, I love the view. The countryside is lovely too!

[Fusion777]

Deep Thought said:

I dont think anyone with a PCP or lease "forgets" that, they just dont care because its none of their business. However it does seem that some of those who chose to run a cheaper car seem to care quite a lot about what others chose to do with their money.

Its not difficult at all to go out and PCP a new car. Noone is saying it is, or that it proves anything.

There sometimes seems to be an insinuation that cash buyers/people with paid off cars are jealous of people taking finance out/PCP'ing/leasing (usually for an expensive car). Maybe some are?

If I was going to be jealous of someone, it'd probably be the person that had no debt at all and could do whatever they pleased, not that I think I'm a jealous person.

[Deep Thought]

Fusion777 said:

There sometimes seems to be an insinuation that cash buyers/people with paid off cars are jealous of people taking finance out/PCP'ing/leasing (usually for an expensive car). Maybe some are?

If I was going to be jealous of someone, it'd probably be the person that had no debt at all and could do whatever they pleased, not that I think I'm a jealous person.

I think its fairly clear that theres a minority of people who have a beef about people PCPing a car.

I dont think its jealousy - and i've never seen anyone suggest it was - but there are definitely some who have an issue with it.

[RoVoFob]

Fusion777 said:

There sometimes seems to be an insinuation that cash buyers/people with paid off cars are jealous of people taking finance out/PCP'ing/leasing (usually for an expensive car). Maybe some are?

If I was going to be jealous of someone, it'd probably be the person that had no debt at all and could do whatever they pleased, not that I think I'm a jealous person.

Isn’t this sentiment not about jealousy but more the concern of having to pick up the pieces if finance junkies overstretch themselves and hit the wall - whether because they lose their job or hit retirement with barely anything in savings (despite having the means to save) - and end up having state-subsidised care for decades?

There is a perception that some people who PCP expensive cars, take out contracts on expensive phones every 10 months and ‘like new things’ spend everything they have and are the ones that other more financially cautious people will have to pay for in future.

From my point of view, I have no objection to people spending a high proportion of what they earn on a financed car - or anything else - as long as they don’t get themselves into wholly predictable financial problems and expect me to bail them out. It’s nothing to do with jealousy…Anyone else in that camp?

[Tomanybikes]

Deep Thought said:

Generally they wont give a stuff, correct.

However theres definitely a minority who do seem to have a beef with others chosing to finance a car better than the one they've chosen to buy outright.

And that minority rarely ever sing the praises of cheap motoring either - they're generally quite bitter and gleefully hope that the PCP and leasers will get their comeuppance.

Who are these posters and presumably they earn their living from a failing/falling economy?

[Deep Thought]

RoVoFob said:

Isn’t this sentiment not about jealousy but more the concern of having to pick up the pieces if finance junkies overstretch themselves and hit the wall - whether because they lose their job or hit retirement with barely anything in savings (despite having the means to save) - and end up having state-subsidised care for decades?

There is a perception that some people who PCP expensive cars, take out contracts on expensive phones every 10 months and ‘like new things’ spend everything they have and are the ones that other more financially cautious people will have to pay for in future.

From my point of view, I have no objection to people spending a high proportion of what they earn on a financed car - or anything else - as long as they don’t get themselves into wholly predictable financial problems and expect me to bail them out. It’s nothing to do with jealousy…Anyone else in that camp?

LOLs.

No, they usually dress it up in that way if pressed, combined with a bit of hand wringing about people having to live hand to mouth because they PCP a new car and are in a Perpetual Car Prison, but its easy to spot the sneering comments.

I think they dont like others driving something "above their station" in life. How very dare they!

[Deep Thought]

RoVoFob said:

From my point of view, I have no objection to people spending a high proportion of what they earn on a financed car - or anything else - as long as they don’t get themselves into wholly predictable financial problems and expect me to bail them out. It’s nothing to do with jealousy…Anyone else in that camp?

Who with a PCP deal has asked you to bail them out?

The reality is - worst case, the car gets repossessed and its the finance companys problem, or they get themselves in a whole heap of debt all over the place and end up defaulting or on a Debt Management Plan, and again, then its the finance companys / banks problem.

Even in the worst COVID lockdown the finance companys were instructed to (?) give people payment holidays but the interest was just added on to their loan and the term extended.

No children or puppies were harmed.

[RoVoFob]

Deep Thought said:

LOLs.

No, they usually dress it up in that way if pressed, combined with a bit of hand wringing about people having to live hand to mouth because they PCP a new car and are in a Perpetual Car Prison, but its easy to spot the sneering comments.

I think they dont like others driving something "above their station" in life. How very dare they!

Isn’t this exactly the same type of assumption that you’re attributing to the people you assume make those judgements on those with PCPs/lots of other finance products?

[anonymous-user]

Deep Thought said:

However theres definitely a minority who do seem to have a beef with others chosing to finance a car better than the one they've chosen to buy outright.

A minority yes. And I'm sure a minority of PCP'ers similarly feel superior, but the majority in either camp couldn't care less.

Just goes to show the two very diverse mindsets when it comes to personal finances. End of day, everyone makes their own bed & has to lay on it. I've no interest in whether any of my friends or acquaintences choose to finance a vehicle they otherwise couldn't afford to buy. But similarly I've also got no interest in hearing them complaining about rising living costs & how much it costs to run it. That's their bed.

[Deep Thought]

nickfrog said:

Deep Thought said:

Wow, I love the view. The countryside is lovely too!

Thank you. Yes, thats parked around the back of our house. Some great driving roads nearby too.