How the hell do people afford cars these days?
Discussion
CrippsCorner said:
Totally agree on the badge snobs. I come from the Max Power/Fast & Furious/Gran Turismo era and for me it's saddest thing seeing the younguns aim for a leased A-Class, rather than buying an old banger and making it their own... which is what it was all about for me, and still is to be fair.
Exactly the same. I find it amazing that the "yoofs of today" don't generally seem that bothered about performance, or having the quickest thing they could manage to afford, and their focus seems almost entirely on badge and trim tinsel.Insurance and black boxes might be largely to blame, however a reality check for ourselves should also include the real world reality that a crappy base model A-Class, for all it's cheap and tacky plastic chrome and 12" diameter grill badging, would very likely run rings around whatever Mk2 GTi or XR3i we'd have been aspiring to at the same age.
Very proud that our daughter went the "right" way with a £350 Punto that we returned from the brink of the crusher, and has been driving her £2500 DS3 for a few more years to get a solid NCD, and now we're shopping for a 300bhp Scirocco R for her first proper quick car at 24 years old ........ her peer group are welcome to keep renting their loathsome base model A1s and A-Classes, in exchange for a sizeable chunk of their monthly take home
Bit of a thread drift but it's not so much car badge snobs for young kids. They just see and like and want the best of everything these days. new smartphone, iPad, new car, posh holidays, etc. Then they moan about not being able to afford a new house! I know two people like this. They all just live in the hope that their parents will give them a stack of cash to get going.
Frimley111R said:
Bit of a thread drift but it's not so much car badge snobs for young kids. They just see and like and want the best of everything these days. new smartphone, iPad, new car, posh holidays, etc. Then they moan about not being able to afford a new house! I know two people like this. They all just live in the hope that their parents will give them a stack of cash to get going.
What a ridiculous statement and quite typical of someone so out of the loop when it comes to house pricing. I recently chatted with my dad about it, who is of the above delusional view...
In 1995, he bought the house I grew up in for £45,000. Adjusted for inflation, that is around £70,000. This was for a 3-bed semi-detached house in a pretty expensive town and at this time, the median salary in that area was £19,000 or around £31,5000 adjusted for inflation.
Looking online, that same house is worth between £470,000 to £519,000 today, with the average salary in the area being £36,000.
So, when you adjust for inflation and look at the actual costs, the house has increased by 571% (assuming it is worth the lower end at £470k) but the average salary has increased by a mere 14%.
Interest rates were of course higher on mortgages than they are now but it is categorically 100% more difficult now for people to buy a house and it is not because they're spending £50 a month on an iPhone, as much as you will insist it is.
I moved into my (first) home 2 years ago, it is currently worth £100,000 more than it was when I bought it.
If I wasn't in a position to buy the house 2 years ago and only just had that deposit together today, I'd not be able to buy the house, I'd be ONE HUNDRED GRAND short.
Cutting down my phone bill from £50 to £20 and not spending £100 on something fun now and again wouldn't net me enough income to make up that extra £100k and you're delusional if you really think that it's just this generation having the wrong attitude.
EDIT
And that's just housing. Look at the general cost of living if you really want to get into it.
1x gallon of fuel in 1995 was £2.31, after inflation that's around £3.40, nearly £4 per gallon cheaper than we're actually paying on average in 2022.
Edited by TREMAiNE on Wednesday 31st August 12:53
TREMAiNE said:
What a ridiculous statement and quite typical of someone so out of the loop when it comes to house pricing.
I recently chatted with my dad about it, who is of the above delusional view...
So you're solution is to give up completely? Well people who don't are still managing it, they buy houses in less than desirable areas, in less good condition, in cheaper areas than they live now and they work their way up to to it. That's how a lot of us did it in the past. My first house needed a ton of work but it was mine. I recently chatted with my dad about it, who is of the above delusional view...
I've seen young people look at my current house in awe (it's nice but nothing massive etc.) but what they don't see is that it took 30 years to get there. No new smartphones, no new premium cars, no massive holidays. I/we just were careful with our money and worked hard and got there. Don't get me wrong, I had nice cars and good holidays but these days the younger generation seem to go to Thailand, Mexico, USA like it's Benidorm!
It's very hard to feel sympathy for people who live up to and beyond their means and complain they don't have the ability to save up or create more money for other jobs etc.
ChocolateFrog said:
Hopefully there'll be a huge correction in house prices and I say that as someone who owns my house outright.
I'd love it if there was, even if it trimmed the equity that I currently have in mine significantly.I'm kinda being a little evil and hoping that the rocketing energy bills will be the biggest problem for the retired people held up in their £600k houses that they bought into for 10% of that in the 80s. I don't want a zillion bedrooms, or any property kudos type thing, however round our way, to get a double garage it unfortunately requires these types to move on.
Frimley111R said:
TREMAiNE said:
What a ridiculous statement and quite typical of someone so out of the loop when it comes to house pricing.
I recently chatted with my dad about it, who is of the above delusional view...
So you're solution is to give up completely? Well people who don't are still managing it, they buy houses in less than desirable areas, in less good condition, in cheaper areas than they live now and they work their way up to to it. That's how a lot of us did it in the past. My first house needed a ton of work but it was mine. I recently chatted with my dad about it, who is of the above delusional view...
I've seen young people look at my current house in awe (it's nice but nothing massive etc.) but what they don't see is that it took 30 years to get there. No new smartphones, no new premium cars, no massive holidays. I/we just were careful with our money and worked hard and got there. Don't get me wrong, I had nice cars and good holidays but these days the younger generation seem to go to Thailand, Mexico, USA like it's Benidorm!
It's very hard to feel sympathy for people who live up to and beyond their means and complain they don't have the ability to save up or create more money for other jobs etc.
Yes, there are lots of young people living with parents, wasting their money on things they shouldn't be buying and not saving their money. But they really are the MINORITY. For the vast MAJORITY of young people, getting on the property ladder is virtually impossible.
In the south east, average month rent is £1190 per month, before any bills. Average take home salary in the same area is £2,211, so after rent, that person has £1,000 to pay all of their bills (gas, electric, insurance, tax, council tax, water, fuel) as well as save a realistic amount for a mortgage. How is the average person supposed to realistically save for a mortgage?
Do you honestly believe that saving £250 a month, living paycheck to paycheck for 10-20 years is acceptable, fair and reasonable?
You are delusional if you don't think there is a fundamental issue that YOU never had to deal with in the slightest.
I live in Canada (Toronto) which also has a superheated housing markets cars also.
I bought a new house with my then wife in 1970 for 1.5x our combined salaries..1800sf and a huge lot.
My current house in Toronto was about 1.8x my ( obviously larger salary )in 1996, though about 4 time the price of the old house.
Now the same house would cost about 9x the average salary here. There is no question that the current state of affairs is unsustainable. I know that almost everyone moving in here now has parental support for the down payment. At this point house prices are going to drop 25% according to the banks and people will be in negative equity. It is much ,much harder for younger people than it was for me.
Cars are also crazy and have gone haywire as a percentage of salary. When I was young I once had a car loan as many do, but today the average car loan here is 84 months! Imagine still paying for your six year old car.
I bought a new house with my then wife in 1970 for 1.5x our combined salaries..1800sf and a huge lot.
My current house in Toronto was about 1.8x my ( obviously larger salary )in 1996, though about 4 time the price of the old house.
Now the same house would cost about 9x the average salary here. There is no question that the current state of affairs is unsustainable. I know that almost everyone moving in here now has parental support for the down payment. At this point house prices are going to drop 25% according to the banks and people will be in negative equity. It is much ,much harder for younger people than it was for me.
Cars are also crazy and have gone haywire as a percentage of salary. When I was young I once had a car loan as many do, but today the average car loan here is 84 months! Imagine still paying for your six year old car.
TREMAiNE said:
Frimley111R said:
TREMAiNE said:
What a ridiculous statement and quite typical of someone so out of the loop when it comes to house pricing.
I recently chatted with my dad about it, who is of the above delusional view...
So you're solution is to give up completely? Well people who don't are still managing it, they buy houses in less than desirable areas, in less good condition, in cheaper areas than they live now and they work their way up to to it. That's how a lot of us did it in the past. My first house needed a ton of work but it was mine. I recently chatted with my dad about it, who is of the above delusional view...
I've seen young people look at my current house in awe (it's nice but nothing massive etc.) but what they don't see is that it took 30 years to get there. No new smartphones, no new premium cars, no massive holidays. I/we just were careful with our money and worked hard and got there. Don't get me wrong, I had nice cars and good holidays but these days the younger generation seem to go to Thailand, Mexico, USA like it's Benidorm!
It's very hard to feel sympathy for people who live up to and beyond their means and complain they don't have the ability to save up or create more money for other jobs etc.
Yes, there are lots of young people living with parents, wasting their money on things they shouldn't be buying and not saving their money. But they really are the MINORITY. For the vast MAJORITY of young people, getting on the property ladder is virtually impossible.
In the south east, average month rent is £1190 per month, before any bills. Average take home salary in the same area is £2,211, so after rent, that person has £1,000 to pay all of their bills (gas, electric, insurance, tax, council tax, water, fuel) as well as save a realistic amount for a mortgage. How is the average person supposed to realistically save for a mortgage?
Do you honestly believe that saving £250 a month, living paycheck to paycheck for 10-20 years is acceptable, fair and reasonable?
You are delusional if you don't think there is a fundamental issue that YOU never had to deal with in the slightest.
Nice houses are worth a lot less in other areas and wages aren't that much less.
Harsh words maybe but everyone rejoices at the mobility of labour when coining it, but not when they aren't.
What The Deuces said:
In the same way people flocked to the south east to make their pot of gold......if you cant afford it, move out of the south east.
Nice houses are worth a lot less in other areas and wages aren't that much less.
Harsh words maybe but everyone rejoices at the mobility of labour when coining it, but not when they aren't.
Even not nice houses in not nice areas can be going for £120,000, and the average salary is £27k.Nice houses are worth a lot less in other areas and wages aren't that much less.
Harsh words maybe but everyone rejoices at the mobility of labour when coining it, but not when they aren't.
TREMAiNE said:
Frimley111R said:
TREMAiNE said:
What a ridiculous statement and quite typical of someone so out of the loop when it comes to house pricing.
I recently chatted with my dad about it, who is of the above delusional view...
So you're solution is to give up completely? Well people who don't are still managing it, they buy houses in less than desirable areas, in less good condition, in cheaper areas than they live now and they work their way up to to it. That's how a lot of us did it in the past. My first house needed a ton of work but it was mine. I recently chatted with my dad about it, who is of the above delusional view...
I've seen young people look at my current house in awe (it's nice but nothing massive etc.) but what they don't see is that it took 30 years to get there. No new smartphones, no new premium cars, no massive holidays. I/we just were careful with our money and worked hard and got there. Don't get me wrong, I had nice cars and good holidays but these days the younger generation seem to go to Thailand, Mexico, USA like it's Benidorm!
It's very hard to feel sympathy for people who live up to and beyond their means and complain they don't have the ability to save up or create more money for other jobs etc.
Yes, there are lots of young people living with parents, wasting their money on things they shouldn't be buying and not saving their money. But they really are the MINORITY. For the vast MAJORITY of young people, getting on the property ladder is virtually impossible.
In the south east, average month rent is £1190 per month, before any bills. Average take home salary in the same area is £2,211, so after rent, that person has £1,000 to pay all of their bills (gas, electric, insurance, tax, council tax, water, fuel) as well as save a realistic amount for a mortgage. How is the average person supposed to realistically save for a mortgage?
Do you honestly believe that saving £250 a month, living paycheck to paycheck for 10-20 years is acceptable, fair and reasonable?
You are delusional if you don't think there is a fundamental issue that YOU never had to deal with in the slightest.
What you don't realise is that when you take out a mortgage, your car finance will reflect what you may borrow and who wants to lend you the monies. Someone on £25k who bought a flashy car on PCP will struggle to get on the property ladder and I feel you don't see the actual picture. Banks don't care if it's 'only' £250 a month. They see the total cost and certainly car finance on your record has always been quite a hit unless you earn so much that it doesn't matter.
People who live in London have a choice to move up north where lifestyle is cheaper. If you're not on £80k in London then I'm sorry, the city is not for you - simple as that. Moreover, there are plenty of schemes around to help first time buyers with huge contributions and something like 5% deposit which is totally achievable if you save money for 5 years. I'm unsure who these majority of people you're talking about, but clearly we are not on the same page and you may be watching too much media steering BS down your throat. It's all about your goals and what midset you have. Dit is pointless to compare what someone could afford 20 years ago to now, concentrate on what you can do now to move forwards.
Let me tell you what my friend did who started like me, from the bottom. Work hard. Don't spend monies on silly things. After 5 years of working hard he was able to buy a house for £80k with a BTL mortgage in an ok area. 5 years later he turned 25 and was able to sell his house and buy something better, do it up and sell it. He then managed to buy two houses, do them up, sell it. He is now 33 and owns 6 properties that he lets in the Midlands. He bought his used C63s with cash.
I did a similar thing to him but stopped when I bought my second home as career was taking over all aspects of my life and I didn't have any time to manage other properties being let.
So not, it isn't really hard to jump on a property ladder. There are houses that cost £40k but needs £40k of renovation for it to be marketed at £180k.
Too bad this 'MAJORITY' of people do not think like we do, the foreigners who know value of money and think about our future/families.
Anyways. This is indeed a steer from the main topic.
Zeugirdor said:
Let me tell you what my friend did who started like me, from the bottom. Work hard. Don't spend monies on silly things. After 5 years of working hard he was able to buy a house for £80k with a BTL mortgage in an ok area. 5 years later he turned 25 and was able to sell his house and buy something better, do it up and sell it. He then managed to buy two houses, do them up, sell it. He is now 33 and owns 6 properties that he lets in the Midlands. He bought his used C63s with cash.
The imaginary friend that started work at 15, was able to qualify for a BTL mortgage at 20, and then in flipping one house, could suddenly afford 2 houses and the cost to renovate and buy more.What's the "side hustle"?
Zeugirdor said:
TL;DR - the majority of people can barely afford to make payments on their flashy PCP/leased cars. They're scraping and do not have a sound knowledge of how to manage finance properly. They're not thinking beyond today. They are badge/reg snobs who find it important what others may think about them when they park their cars in a work car park / McDonalds. Lease market has been going up since 4 years ago and when you factor the latest events, it has gone even more, yet the lease forums on here is filled with people asking if an A4 S Line deal for £420 a month with 9m initial is a good deal or not. My two pence.
Honestly, it's you that comes across as an incorrigible snob here. And I don't believe, for one second, the emboldened. Can you support it?What The Deuces said:
In the same way people flocked to the southeast to make their pot of gold......if you cant afford it, move out of the south east.
That doesn't fix the fundamental problem though, does it?You're effectively telling millions of people who live in cities or expensive regions of the UK to all pack up to move away from all their friends, families and lives. Around 30% of the UK's population lives in the southeast or London area - around 20 million people total. I don't know the proportion of those that falls in the discussed category but it's fair to say it's in the millions.
It's a ridiculous statement, and just highlights earlier that there is a fundamental issue with the system.
While the cost of living might be lower up north, ultimately it's still rising massively across the countries and other cities will still likely have a big house price issue, just not as severe in London.
It's easy to sit there and say "save more, move somewhere cheaper" but they're cop-out answers from people that haven't had to live in those circumstances with those costs to face.
I was lucky enough to live with my dad until I was 28, on a very low monthly rent - also lucky to be in a very good job, where I was able to save well into 4 figures every month for nearly 10 years. Had I not had that luxury of living with him and instead renting like most people, I'd likely have a 10% of the deposit I ended up having - and like I previously posted, my house is worth 25% (£100,000) more than it was 2 years ago. It's ridiculous.
Not spending £50 a month on my phone contract and leaving my well-paying job to move somewhere cheaper away from my friends, family and life would not have solved the problem, it'd have just made the problem a little less terrible.
TREMAiNE said:
What The Deuces said:
In the same way people flocked to the southeast to make their pot of gold......if you cant afford it, move out of the south east.
That doesn't fix the fundamental problem though, does it?You're effectively telling millions of people who live in cities or expensive regions of the UK to all pack up to move away from all their friends, families and lives. Around 30% of the UK's population lives in the southeast or London area - around 20 million people total. I don't know the proportion of those that falls in the discussed category but it's fair to say it's in the millions.
Owning your own home is not a birthright in the UK or any other country for that matter.
The housing price problem in major / capital cities is not unique to the UK by the way. And like other countries its either accept you're going to rent or move to somewhere cheaper.
My son and his g/f rents an apartment in Sydney that would cost close to AUS$ 1 million to buy. They cant afford that so chose to rent as it suits them to live in the city itself. When that changes and they want to buy, they'll move somewhere else.
Edited by Deep Thought on Wednesday 31st August 13:48
Evanivitch said:
Zeugirdor said:
Let me tell you what my friend did who started like me, from the bottom. Work hard. Don't spend monies on silly things. After 5 years of working hard he was able to buy a house for £80k with a BTL mortgage in an ok area. 5 years later he turned 25 and was able to sell his house and buy something better, do it up and sell it. He then managed to buy two houses, do them up, sell it. He is now 33 and owns 6 properties that he lets in the Midlands. He bought his used C63s with cash.
The imaginary friend that started work at 15, was able to qualify for a BTL mortgage at 20, and then in flipping one house, could suddenly afford 2 houses and the cost to renovate and buy more.What's the "side hustle"?
I won't go into detail for you as to how my imaginary friend or me started our journey, but rest assured it was legal. While you were wa***ng over porn magazines in Tescos at 14, I was already working part time and saving. At 16 I had £5,000 in my bank account. I bet you're mind blown that someone at 16 could have saved £5,000.
I wish everyone had an imaginary friend like this, to help steer them in the right direction and give them sound advise.
Have a good day in your 'hard to live' world.
Edited by Zeugirdor on Wednesday 31st August 13:57
Zeugirdor said:
Evanivitch said:
Zeugirdor said:
Let me tell you what my friend did who started like me, from the bottom. Work hard. Don't spend monies on silly things. After 5 years of working hard he was able to buy a house for £80k with a BTL mortgage in an ok area. 5 years later he turned 25 and was able to sell his house and buy something better, do it up and sell it. He then managed to buy two houses, do them up, sell it. He is now 33 and owns 6 properties that he lets in the Midlands. He bought his used C63s with cash.
The imaginary friend that started work at 15, was able to qualify for a BTL mortgage at 20, and then in flipping one house, could suddenly afford 2 houses and the cost to renovate and buy more.What's the "side hustle"?
I won't go into detail for you as to how my imaginary friend or me started our journey, but rest assured it was legal. While you were wa***ng over porn magazines in Tescos at 14, I was already working part time and saving. At 16 I had £5,000 in my bank account. I bet you're mind blown that someone at 16 could have saved £5,000.
I wish everyone had an imaginary friend like this, to help steer them in the right direction and give them sound advise.
Have a good day in your 'hard to live' world.
Edited by Zeugirdor on Wednesday 31st August 13:57
Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff