Sports car, fun on B roads, nice engine sound, a bit special

[DRVR]

CABC said:

DRVR said:

By the way, while researching the difference in suspension set up with the Z4 M I was surprised to discover it has Mcpherson. I would have thought that type of car would have double wishbones all around. Might explain why my memories of the RX7 gave me the impression it handled better than the Z4. Is the 370Z double wishbone?

from launch the Z4 seemed like a car designed in marketing. an unresolved bitsa powered by (some) great engines.
wishbones have two huge disadvantages: cost and packaging. marketing folk don't want uncomfortable pedal boxes after a long day colouring in.

I was really surprised since even some FWD cars are double wishbone at the front.

[DRVR]

PH User said:

DRVR said:

PH User said:

The 370z is even heavier than the Z4!

You talk as if the Z4 was heavy. 1300kg is not heavy for a semi modern 6 cylinders car. Can you point another car like that, as old or newer which is considerably lighter?

It's not a light car at a BMW quoted 1.4 tonnes, but it's also not as heavy as a 370z, so if that's the one you prefer then go for it.

Where are you getting 1.4 tonnes?

But regardless, I repeat the question. Please point a similar car, RWD 6 cylinders or more, same age or newer, which is lighter. Even the 90s GTV V6 is porkier, despite being older and FWD. Crossfire, also porkier.

Crossfire by the way, styling aside, is about the only other mass produced car of the same type as a Z4C. Probably because it has similar origins, being also based on a small 6 cylinders roadster. Not a real alternative though, with its old truck steering system and being under powered and of course, porkier. But about the only other small 2 seats RWD coupe with a larger engine.

[Mr Tidy]

PH User said:

DRVR said:

PH User said:

The 370z is even heavier than the Z4!

You talk as if the Z4 was heavy. 1300kg is not heavy for a semi modern 6 cylinders car. Can you point another car like that, as old or newer which is considerably lighter?

It's not a light car at a BMW quoted 1.4 tonnes, but it's also not as heavy as a 370z, so if that's the one you prefer then go for it.

To be fair BMW quote the unladen weight of a 3.0Si Z4 Coupe as 1,395kg, but that includes a 90% full fuel tank, a 68kg driver and 7kg of luggage so properly unladen it's nearer 1,300kg.

They quote 1,495kg for the M Coupe with the same 90% full tank, etc. so that is going to be nearer 1,400kg empty. Most of the extra is probably due to the S54 engine having an iron block.

[TameRacingDriver]

DRVR said:

TameRacingDriver said:

It seems to me like you’ve made up your mind, but I’ll just say that I would put in a vote for the Z4C 3.0 si, I always thought it felt a special place to sit and definitely had a sense of occasion for me. Those saying it’s like sitting in a saloon are wrong, it’s nothing like one. Certainly a better place to be than an Elise or vx220. Get one, stick some CSL reps on it, remap for 280+, decent cat back exhaust , lsd, and if the budget allows, some birds suspension. That would be a superb car.

I just read your thread from 2016, when you bought your blue Z4C auto. Do you still have it? If not what replaced it?

It's a real crime there are no other cars like the Z4C. A car that small and light will be a 4 cylinder. Or it will be bigger and heavier. Or rear mid engine, Or it will be a saloon with missing rear doors. Nothing like the Z4C apart from a TVR, Ginetta or some other small production, too raw or unreliable oddball. Maybe the old RX7.

Mine came to a sad end, and it was due mainly to the auto box, which started to go haywire. I had it serviced in an attempt to fix the issue, but it made no difference. As I was in the process of moving into my first house, I couldn't afford/justify the quoted £2500 to put it right, so it went off to WBAC, and an MR2 Roadster took it's place.

The MR2 was definitely more fun on a B road blast but I still have a soft spot for the z4 as it looked the dogs danglies, was a lovely place to sit, and had a great engine. I have honestly reconsidered getting one at times, but it would definitely have to be a manual.

[PH User]

Mr Tidy said:

PH User said:

DRVR said:

PH User said:

The 370z is even heavier than the Z4!

You talk as if the Z4 was heavy. 1300kg is not heavy for a semi modern 6 cylinders car. Can you point another car like that, as old or newer which is considerably lighter?

It's not a light car at a BMW quoted 1.4 tonnes, but it's also not as heavy as a 370z, so if that's the one you prefer then go for it.

To be fair BMW quote the unladen weight of a 3.0Si Z4 Coupe as 1,395kg, but that includes a 90% full fuel tank, a 68kg driver and 7kg of luggage so properly unladen it's nearer 1,300kg.

They quote 1,495kg for the M Coupe with the same 90% full tank, etc. so that is going to be nearer 1,400kg empty. Most of the extra is probably due to the S54 engine having an iron block.

Yeah it's an EU weight, which is what it would actually be while you're using it. It's a similar weight to a Cayman, so it's about right weight wise, neither heavy or light.

[Om]

PH User said:

Mr Tidy said:

PH User said:

DRVR said:

PH User said:

The 370z is even heavier than the Z4!

You talk as if the Z4 was heavy. 1300kg is not heavy for a semi modern 6 cylinders car. Can you point another car like that, as old or newer which is considerably lighter?

It's not a light car at a BMW quoted 1.4 tonnes, but it's also not as heavy as a 370z, so if that's the one you prefer then go for it.

To be fair BMW quote the unladen weight of a 3.0Si Z4 Coupe as 1,395kg, but that includes a 90% full fuel tank, a 68kg driver and 7kg of luggage so properly unladen it's nearer 1,300kg.

They quote 1,495kg for the M Coupe with the same 90% full tank, etc. so that is going to be nearer 1,400kg empty. Most of the extra is probably due to the S54 engine having an iron block.

Yeah it's an EU weight, which is what it would actually be while you're using it. It's a similar weight to a Cayman, so it's about right weight wise, neither heavy or light.

The base 370Z weighs about the same as the Z4M Coupe, other models weigh more. Not the lightest but still significantly less than a Golf R.

To compare, a Cayman S is something like 1385kg and an Evora 400 is 1395 kg, so the 3.0 Z4 coupe is in good company.

btw - the 370z has double wishbone front suspension and multilink rear.

[Ian Geary]

I had recently been looking at the weight of cars, in the hunt for that elusive "just right" blend of comfort, power and handling.

My 5 series 3l is 1,650kg - can comfortably be described as "not light"

A 3 series about 1,550kg -bit better?

Audit TT was getting on for 1450kg - hmm, only slight power to weight gain Vs the above

Something like a civic tyre r fn2 was nearly 1,300kg

To get near 1 tonne you're down to swift sports or MX-5s, but they obviously don't fulfil the OP's other criteria.

I was just interested by the question of "what is a light car?" in this context.

[ZX10R NIN]

DRVR said:

I'm not sure I could live with that. I might be the only person to buy a Nismo and retrofit the standard car bumpers. That huge wing would definitely need to go as well. I also agree about the seats. Just horrible! Are they any lighter than the standard cars?

The Gen2 sems like it would be more to your liking:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202201221...

[DRVR]

Mr Tidy said:

PH User said:

DRVR said:

PH User said:

The 370z is even heavier than the Z4!

You talk as if the Z4 was heavy. 1300kg is not heavy for a semi modern 6 cylinders car. Can you point another car like that, as old or newer which is considerably lighter?

It's not a light car at a BMW quoted 1.4 tonnes, but it's also not as heavy as a 370z, so if that's the one you prefer then go for it.

To be fair BMW quote the unladen weight of a 3.0Si Z4 Coupe as 1,395kg, but that includes a 90% full fuel tank, a 68kg driver and 7kg of luggage so properly unladen it's nearer 1,300kg.

They quote 1,495kg for the M Coupe with the same 90% full tank, etc. so that is going to be nearer 1,400kg empty. Most of the extra is probably due to the S54 engine having an iron block.

In my opinion the only weight which makes sense considering is empty. I mean, what a waste trying to guess the wight of a driver. Anybody here weighs only 68kg? And who wants 7kg of luggage in a sports car? For comparisons only empty weight is useful.

[DRVR]

TameRacingDriver said:

DRVR said:

TameRacingDriver said:

It seems to me like you’ve made up your mind, but I’ll just say that I would put in a vote for the Z4C 3.0 si, I always thought it felt a special place to sit and definitely had a sense of occasion for me. Those saying it’s like sitting in a saloon are wrong, it’s nothing like one. Certainly a better place to be than an Elise or vx220. Get one, stick some CSL reps on it, remap for 280+, decent cat back exhaust , lsd, and if the budget allows, some birds suspension. That would be a superb car.

I just read your thread from 2016, when you bought your blue Z4C auto. Do you still have it? If not what replaced it?

It's a real crime there are no other cars like the Z4C. A car that small and light will be a 4 cylinder. Or it will be bigger and heavier. Or rear mid engine, Or it will be a saloon with missing rear doors. Nothing like the Z4C apart from a TVR, Ginetta or some other small production, too raw or unreliable oddball. Maybe the old RX7.

Mine came to a sad end, and it was due mainly to the auto box, which started to go haywire. I had it serviced in an attempt to fix the issue, but it made no difference. As I was in the process of moving into my first house, I couldn't afford/justify the quoted £2500 to put it right, so it went off to WBAC, and an MR2 Roadster took it's place.

The MR2 was definitely more fun on a B road blast but I still have a soft spot for the z4 as it looked the dogs danglies, was a lovely place to sit, and had a great engine. I have honestly reconsidered getting one at times, but it would definitely have to be a manual.

That's sad. In the meantime I found your tread about your NC? This was always my favorite MX5. I never understood the trash they get. They feel much better and more upscale than a NA and NB and in my opinion can hold more speed through the corners. If I had a MX5 it would be a NC. It also looks the best apart from the ND.

How do you like it compared to the MR2S? What was always a letdown in the MR2 was the interior. Somehow easier to take that in an Elise and the Lotus did it better, where the MR2 just feels cheap inside.

[DRVR]

Om said:

PH User said:

Mr Tidy said:

PH User said:

DRVR said:

PH User said:

The 370z is even heavier than the Z4!

You talk as if the Z4 was heavy. 1300kg is not heavy for a semi modern 6 cylinders car. Can you point another car like that, as old or newer which is considerably lighter?

It's not a light car at a BMW quoted 1.4 tonnes, but it's also not as heavy as a 370z, so if that's the one you prefer then go for it.

To be fair BMW quote the unladen weight of a 3.0Si Z4 Coupe as 1,395kg, but that includes a 90% full fuel tank, a 68kg driver and 7kg of luggage so properly unladen it's nearer 1,300kg.

They quote 1,495kg for the M Coupe with the same 90% full tank, etc. so that is going to be nearer 1,400kg empty. Most of the extra is probably due to the S54 engine having an iron block.

Yeah it's an EU weight, which is what it would actually be while you're using it. It's a similar weight to a Cayman, so it's about right weight wise, neither heavy or light.

The base 370Z weighs about the same as the Z4M Coupe, other models weigh more. Not the lightest but still significantly less than a Golf R.

To compare, a Cayman S is something like 1385kg and an Evora 400 is 1395 kg, so the 3.0 Z4 coupe is in good company.

btw - the 370z has double wishbone front suspension and multilink rear.

Interesting. Are those empty weights? What I found is that the Z4C empty weighs 1295kg.

[DRVR]

Ian Geary said:

I had recently been looking at the weight of cars, in the hunt for that elusive "just right" blend of comfort, power and handling.

My 5 series 3l is 1,650kg - can comfortably be described as "not light"

A 3 series about 1,550kg -bit better?

Audit TT was getting on for 1450kg - hmm, only slight power to weight gain Vs the above

Something like a civic tyre r fn2 was nearly 1,300kg

To get near 1 tonne you're down to swift sports or MX-5s, but they obviously don't fulfil the OP's other criteria.

I was just interested by the question of "what is a light car?" in this context.

Exactly. This is where the Z4C is so unique. At 1,300kg it's alone, being a 6 cylinders and RWD. The Honda might be 1,300kg but it's FWD and a 4 cylinders. The footprint of a Z4 is also not all the larger than a MX5 NC, specially compared to the Honda.

[ecsrobin]

DRVR said:

Anything AWD will be porky.

Nothing to add of any use as the OP wants RWD but this comment got a laugh as my AWD is lighter than a Z4 coupe that he had been looking at.

[DRVR]

ZX10R NIN said:

DRVR said:

I'm not sure I could live with that. I might be the only person to buy a Nismo and retrofit the standard car bumpers. That huge wing would definitely need to go as well. I also agree about the seats. Just horrible! Are they any lighter than the standard cars?

The Gen2 sems like it would be more to your liking:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202201221...

Oh yes, definitely. Wrap the red accents to a less shouty colour and that would be fine.

But honestly, considering the general looks, which I'm not very fond of and the porkier stature, the Z4C sounds so much more appealing. I think I will look into it and really seriously find out how much money and trouble it is to convert the steering.

On the other hand, I just found out the well regarded S2000 is also electric steering and supposedly not a very good steering either. But yet is still well regarded. So maybe I should give the Z4C another chance? Maybe I'm being too harsh on it?

The other problem with the Z4C is that it seems I will be looking for a long time to find the right one. Most of them are black or grey/silver. And have black interiors. So what I want will be harder to find. Then maybe I need a stop gap car in the meantime. Maybe a NC retractable hardtop.

Edited by DRVR on Sunday 20th March 10:49

[PH User]

DRVR said:

Mr Tidy said:

PH User said:

DRVR said:

PH User said:

The 370z is even heavier than the Z4!

You talk as if the Z4 was heavy. 1300kg is not heavy for a semi modern 6 cylinders car. Can you point another car like that, as old or newer which is considerably lighter?

It's not a light car at a BMW quoted 1.4 tonnes, but it's also not as heavy as a 370z, so if that's the one you prefer then go for it.

To be fair BMW quote the unladen weight of a 3.0Si Z4 Coupe as 1,395kg, but that includes a 90% full fuel tank, a 68kg driver and 7kg of luggage so properly unladen it's nearer 1,300kg.

They quote 1,495kg for the M Coupe with the same 90% full tank, etc. so that is going to be nearer 1,400kg empty. Most of the extra is probably due to the S54 engine having an iron block.

In my opinion the only weight which makes sense considering is empty. I mean, what a waste trying to guess the wight of a driver. Anybody here weighs only 68kg? And who wants 7kg of luggage in a sports car? For comparisons only empty weight is useful.

What matters is comparing like for like.

[SWoll]

ecsrobin said:

DRVR said:

Anything AWD will be porky.

Nothing to add of any use as the OP wants RWD but this comment got a laugh as my AWD is lighter than a Z4 coupe that he had been looking at.

Because it's a small Japanese hatchback. For a car in its class it is relatively porky at around 1300KG?

[PH User]

DRVR said:

Ian Geary said:

I had recently been looking at the weight of cars, in the hunt for that elusive "just right" blend of comfort, power and handling.

My 5 series 3l is 1,650kg - can comfortably be described as "not light"

A 3 series about 1,550kg -bit better?

Audit TT was getting on for 1450kg - hmm, only slight power to weight gain Vs the above

Something like a civic tyre r fn2 was nearly 1,300kg

To get near 1 tonne you're down to swift sports or MX-5s, but they obviously don't fulfil the OP's other criteria.

I was just interested by the question of "what is a light car?" in this context.

Exactly. This is where the Z4C is so unique. At 1,300kg it's alone, being a 6 cylinders and RWD. The Honda might be 1,300kg but it's FWD and a 4 cylinders. The footprint of a Z4 is also not all the larger than a MX5 NC, specially compared to the Honda.

What about the Cayman? That weighs the same as the Z4.

[ecsrobin]

SWoll said:

ecsrobin said:

DRVR said:

Anything AWD will be porky.

Nothing to add of any use as the OP wants RWD but this comment got a laugh as my AWD is lighter than a Z4 coupe that he had been looking at.

Because it's a small Japanese hatchback. For a car in its class it is relatively porky at around 1300KG?

My point still stands to comment saying anything AWD will be porky is incorrect. As an AWD hatchback I believe it is the lightest on sale today if you’re comparing it to a Suzuki swift then yes it is heavier but with 2 less seats you’d hope a sports car would be lighter than my shopping car.

Reading this thread you clearly want the Z4C and won’t consider anything else but keep talking yourself out of it.

Sorry if I missed it but what are you driving at the moment?

[TameRacingDriver]

DRVR said:

That's sad. In the meantime I found your tread about your NC? This was always my favorite MX5. I never understood the trash they get. They feel much better and more upscale than a NA and NB and in my opinion can hold more speed through the corners. If I had a MX5 it would be a NC. It also looks the best apart from the ND.

How do you like it compared to the MR2S? What was always a letdown in the MR2 was the interior. Somehow easier to take that in an Elise and the Lotus did it better, where the MR2 just feels cheap inside.

I've gotta be honest, the NC is a riot, it's just really great fun, feels very agile, almost hyperactive, and the interior in mine at least is far, far better than the MR2, which is you rightly point out, is pretty horrid in my opinion, and was always the weakest part of the package. Probably not completely fair to compare it with the MR2 as my NC has the BBR Super 200 kit, so naturally it feels a lot faster than the MR2 as well, it would probably be more fair to compare it with a 2ZZ MR2 but I've not driven one of those to make the comparison. I don't get some of the hate either, as it's definitely one of the most fun cars I've driven in my 20-odd years of driving.

[DRVR]

ecsrobin said:

SWoll said:

ecsrobin said:

DRVR said:

Anything AWD will be porky.

Nothing to add of any use as the OP wants RWD but this comment got a laugh as my AWD is lighter than a Z4 coupe that he had been looking at.

Because it's a small Japanese hatchback. For a car in its class it is relatively porky at around 1300KG?

My point still stands to comment saying anything AWD will be porky is incorrect. As an AWD hatchback I believe it is the lightest on sale today if you’re comparing it to a Suzuki swift then yes it is heavier but with 2 less seats you’d hope a sports car would be lighter than my shopping car.

Reading this thread you clearly want the Z4C and won’t consider anything else but keep talking yourself out of it.

Sorry if I missed it but what are you driving at the moment?

I think you are missing the point. Anything in the same class and AWD would be porkier. Does your car have a 6 cylinder engine?