Used car dealer sold really dodgy car
Discussion
Hugo Stiglitz said:
OP there's a hpi service that is quite indepth and can turn up unrecorded. It's popular on here. What's it called? If you can pay it/it shows up you may have more ammunition against the retailer.
Is this the v-check which a few others have mentioned - on the website it just mentions insurance write-off.swiftguy said:
I can't believe the level of downplaying, this isn't just a scratch or a dent! A whole wing has been replaced, damage enough to the window pillar to be painted.
The odd occasion where my own car has had an accident, wing damage, it is always be recorded at the very least cat N (or was D).
How on earth can you say a car that has at the very least wing damage, the insurance would not record it.
This has not gone through insurance, scrap parts have been used.
I'll explain this clearly.The odd occasion where my own car has had an accident, wing damage, it is always be recorded at the very least cat N (or was D).
How on earth can you say a car that has at the very least wing damage, the insurance would not record it.
This has not gone through insurance, scrap parts have been used.
An "HPI Check" is a "Car Write Off Check". You can read this yourself here https://www.hpi.co.uk/car-write-off.html
"Write Off" is a technical term. It occurs when a car is so heavily damaged that the cost of repairing the car is more than the value of the car. That is, it would be cheaper to buy another similar car than to repair the damaged one.
Therefore the insurance company logically offers the car owner the money to go out and buy a similar car, instead of paying the higher cost to repair their old one.
When this happens, the car is an 'insurance write off' and the insurance company should ensure it's recorded with HPI.
Even if someone else buys the damaged car and repairs it cheaply with secondhand parts, you can avoid unwittingly buying such a car by paying HPI to tell you if it's ever been recorded on their register as a write-off.
So a 'write off' is a car that an insurance company has refused to repair, as it's too heavily damaged.
Of course, the more common case is where the cost of repair is less than the cost to replace the vehicle. In this case the insurance company does not write the car off, and instead they pay a garage to repair the car for the buyer, who gets it back.
Since such a car has not been 'written off', it doesn't appear on an HPI 'Car Write Off Check'.
You appear to share the common misconception that an 'HPI Check' checks whether a car has ever been damaged and repaired. This simply isn't the case, and could never realistically be arranged. Therefore 'HPI Clear' means a car isn't a write-off, not that it's never been in an accident.
swiftguy said:
So you think the car air-bag components wiring just left hanging, damaged, not connected - is all ok? The occupants lives at risk is all ok?
This is a separate matter. If you can show that the car as sold by the dealer is unsafe or unroadworthy, then you could potentially return it as not being fit for purpose. An Audi dealership would probably be best placed to make such a declaration. Without specific knowledge of the safety systems on that particular make and model of car, I think it's hard to judge this, but if certain standard safety systems are in fact not in a working state this could be grounds for a partial refund / rejection.When you say 'Dealer', do you mean Audi Main Dealer, or some other 2nd-hand franchise, or some back street garage?
Unrecorded repairs will probably happen thousands of times a week (including car park dings, vandalism, wheel scuffs, etc.), and are not dangerous just because they're unrecorded.
However, if you keep getting sensor errors, why has the dealer not offered to resolve this?
BTW, never trust the word of a used car salesman (main dealer or otherwise)...ALWAYS do you own checks, including independent inspection if, like me, you're not qualified to do it yourself.
Unrecorded repairs will probably happen thousands of times a week (including car park dings, vandalism, wheel scuffs, etc.), and are not dangerous just because they're unrecorded.
However, if you keep getting sensor errors, why has the dealer not offered to resolve this?
BTW, never trust the word of a used car salesman (main dealer or otherwise)...ALWAYS do you own checks, including independent inspection if, like me, you're not qualified to do it yourself.
swiftguy said:
So, seems like you've got all the info you need!swiftguy said:
I can't believe the level of downplaying, this isn't just a scratch or a dent! A whole wing has been replaced, damage enough to the window pillar to be painted.
So you think the car air-bag components wiring just left hanging, damaged, not connected - is all ok? The occupants lives at risk is all ok?
The odd occasion where my own car has had an accident, wing damage, it is always be recorded at the very least cat N (or was D).
How on earth can you say a car that has at the very least wing damage, the insurance would not record it.
This has not gone through insurance, scrap parts have been used.
Oh no! A car has needed a new wing! Let’s crush it!So you think the car air-bag components wiring just left hanging, damaged, not connected - is all ok? The occupants lives at risk is all ok?
The odd occasion where my own car has had an accident, wing damage, it is always be recorded at the very least cat N (or was D).
How on earth can you say a car that has at the very least wing damage, the insurance would not record it.
This has not gone through insurance, scrap parts have been used.
Edited by swiftguy on Sunday 14th August 16:34
The fact that the date stamps of parts are not new I’d say someone’s had a bit of a bump or a light thump in it and repaired it with 2nd hand parts. If the chassis legs are straight and true the damage is sortable. Even if they aren’t it’s not automatically the end of the world. Apart from the core cell the rest of the car is made out of deliberately bendy metal to absorb the impact. This can normally be removed/unwelded and replaced and the car returned to as it was.
As for the A pillar my bet is the wing or bonnet has rolled up on to it causing minor surface damage so has needed a skim of filler and paint. If the A pillar was truely bent the door or screen wouldn’t fit.
As a piece of mind do a v check and it will show if it’s been through a salvage auction (hopefully with pictures). If it’s a write off that’s not been recorded correctly you will have recourse. If not then you can’t expect the dealer to know that a cars been repaired or not.
Ultimately if the damage was that obvious and serious you would have spotted it at purchase time. You’ve only spotted it now you’ve gone digging.
You need to forget about the HPi / should be categorised / insurance argument as sadly, you're very much misinformed if you think a damage = recorded as a Cat C/D/S/N or whatever. That will only happen if the car was subjected to a claim... so if Barry parked it in a ditch and opted to "fix" it himself or if Barry's bird was driving it uninsured and melted a parked car or if Barry's insurer found any reason to void a claim be it bald tyres or undisclosed mods, then insurers aren't involved and it won't appear on the register. Cars get bounced off things daily, repaired / bodged and the insurers aren't involved and so said cars don't go near a category or a salvage auction so don't assume this car is any different.
May have been prudent to pay for a AA used car inspection or similar prior to handing over £18k or at least get somebody with half a clue to check... if some of the issues are as obvious as you say, a reasonable pre-purchase once over may have saved a world of pain.
May have been prudent to pay for a AA used car inspection or similar prior to handing over £18k or at least get somebody with half a clue to check... if some of the issues are as obvious as you say, a reasonable pre-purchase once over may have saved a world of pain.
Surprised at the defensiveness shown at clearly not getting the reaction you hoped for.
I'm struggling to see what the "significant damage" is. So it's had a new wing, headlight, and a bit of dodgy wiring? The shock! The horror! A dealer polished a bit of a turd and charged gateaux money for it? Say it ain't so!
Given the length of time since purchase there's no danger of getting anything approaching the money back - they'll laugh you out the door if you go in wagging your finger in indignation. The options are to either get it fixed and get the money's worth out of it, or get shot and buy something else. Hanging your hat on the "it's not fit for purpose" argument is going to get you and your sister nowhere.
I'm struggling to see what the "significant damage" is. So it's had a new wing, headlight, and a bit of dodgy wiring? The shock! The horror! A dealer polished a bit of a turd and charged gateaux money for it? Say it ain't so!
Given the length of time since purchase there's no danger of getting anything approaching the money back - they'll laugh you out the door if you go in wagging your finger in indignation. The options are to either get it fixed and get the money's worth out of it, or get shot and buy something else. Hanging your hat on the "it's not fit for purpose" argument is going to get you and your sister nowhere.
The repair can’t have been to that bad a standard, it wasn’t noticed when the car was purchased and for a number of months afterwards.
Edited: just seen the pic above, that sucks - but shouldn’t the check be done before purchase, and not after?
How many vehicle repairers/body shops are there in the UK? Each one busy repairing cars that have been damaged and will be, at some point, sold on.
My current car, purchased for £25k at 4 years old as an example: when fitting an updated intercooler I noticed that the bumper bolts weren’t fitted correctly, and one of the bonnet bolts is slightly rusty suggesting the bumper and bonnet have been off previously. I’m not too bothered, it could have been off for stone chip repair, it could have been a bump but regardless - it took me months to notice this and arguably I wouldn’t have if I was a typical owner who never lifts the bonnet. It doesn’t matter to me one bit.
Edited: just seen the pic above, that sucks - but shouldn’t the check be done before purchase, and not after?
How many vehicle repairers/body shops are there in the UK? Each one busy repairing cars that have been damaged and will be, at some point, sold on.
My current car, purchased for £25k at 4 years old as an example: when fitting an updated intercooler I noticed that the bumper bolts weren’t fitted correctly, and one of the bonnet bolts is slightly rusty suggesting the bumper and bonnet have been off previously. I’m not too bothered, it could have been off for stone chip repair, it could have been a bump but regardless - it took me months to notice this and arguably I wouldn’t have if I was a typical owner who never lifts the bonnet. It doesn’t matter to me one bit.
Edited by f1nn on Sunday 14th August 17:55
swiftguy said:
OMG!
Just done the v-check - and its got
hidden history! - It's on a salvage site!
I'm fuming!
Salvage site says:
Category CAT S - STRUCTURAL
so assuming there is some serious structural damage to this car!
so tell me again how the dodgy dealer did not know about this!
They may not have done. If it’s HPI clear then someone else could have done it up and WBAC’d it.Just done the v-check - and its got
hidden history! - It's on a salvage site!I'm fuming!
Salvage site says:
Category CAT S - STRUCTURAL
so assuming there is some serious structural damage to this car!
so tell me again how the dodgy dealer did not know about this!
You do have recourse to go back to the dealer with this- but they may have been non the wiser.
However if you have bought a sub 3 year old car from a back street place (not a respected Indy or main dealer) then what did you seriously expect.
There’s often a reason newish cars aren’t in the main dealer network
9 months later... we'll check its history.
Come on guys, bit self preservation and common sense when it comes to car buying never goes amiss!
Hope you get the resolution you hope OP but you could be in for a rough road ahead. One positive is if it's on finance, they may now take an interest..
Best of luck
Come on guys, bit self preservation and common sense when it comes to car buying never goes amiss!
Hope you get the resolution you hope OP but you could be in for a rough road ahead. One positive is if it's on finance, they may now take an interest..
Best of luck
swiftguy said:
so tell me again how the dodgy dealer did not know about this!
Do you have a copy of the HPI check carried out by the dealer? Likewise, did you carry out your own HPI?This would not be the first time Category status for some reason doesn't show up on a car check, where another system might have a log.
While I know this is a stressful situation you do need to keep a cool head and give the dealer the benefit of the doubt. "They must have know" is still entirely speculation, you very well may find that you contact them tomorrow with a copy of technicians report and vcar check that unearthed the above they are just as surprised and shocked as you are and will be accommodating in unwinding the deal.
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