Replacement for a Z4
Discussion
Bit of a thread revival, but sat having lunch sunday and outside up pulled an SLK350 with an AMG bodykit. I looked pretty good actually. Very aesthetically pleasing. Checked out the stats and the V6 seems to run a decent bit of power, with the benefit of hard top roof down motoring.
Have I missed a trick here? As they can be had for circa £6k which seems a bit of a steal. Is it the 'hairdressers' reputation they have?
Have I missed a trick here? As they can be had for circa £6k which seems a bit of a steal. Is it the 'hairdressers' reputation they have?
I live in zone 3 london, you dont get to stretch and test the limitations of chassis that often to be honest 
I guess my usership is a mix of just getting about around town (when I dont fancy using the wifes Qashqai), heading out to car meets, the occasional boot down A roads, and a bit more few and far between, country roads.
Saying that...Im sat here looking at 987 Boxsters for around 10k now
I guess my usership is a mix of just getting about around town (when I dont fancy using the wifes Qashqai), heading out to car meets, the occasional boot down A roads, and a bit more few and far between, country roads.
Saying that...Im sat here looking at 987 Boxsters for around 10k now
C70R said:
The early 3.2 987 is the pick of the bunch. Updated chassis and ergonomics, but reliable engine.
Was looking at circa 10k 987 S 2005-2006ish ... mileage seems to be around 90k for that money. I don't know enough about Boxsters and their IMS and Bore Score issues might have to have a read up...
TameRacingDriver said:
Sometimes I think I'd have been much better off financially if I'd been more like you and stretched myself to cars I genuinely thought I would love and keep for a long time, but I'm just not wired up that way it seems, and for sure I've experienced a wide variety of cars that way which I don't regret doing (my wallet does though).
That's actually why I'm somewhat surprised by my revisiting of the Boxster, but ultimately I let myself off for that as I never had the original one long enough to form any solid opinions or even feel like I'd enjoyed the car properly. How long will it last though....
I do buy the cars I want, but I just dont ever love a car enough to want to keep it long term. The only car I actually regret selling was the Celica GT4 ST205, it was just so different and now its so rare. Everything else I enjoyed owning but dont regret selling. That's actually why I'm somewhat surprised by my revisiting of the Boxster, but ultimately I let myself off for that as I never had the original one long enough to form any solid opinions or even feel like I'd enjoyed the car properly. How long will it last though....
Yes the Celica got a lot of stick (oh its heavy, its AWD etc) but it was on par with the fabled Cosworth and if the works rally team hadnt tried to be clever with the turbo cheat it probably would have won a stack of WRCs. Amazing that back in the mid 90s they had a car out the box doing over 250bhp on the road. The beauty of homologation eh!
The drop top Z4 is an good shout, but I am selling because I want to try something different. Aside from the roof down I am not sure it is going to be different enough. I take the point on board about the Boxster being something I personally wont make the most of. I guess its the ownership experience I enjoy the most, as much as the chucking the car around and exploiting it.
Hell, I could actually just say 'hey im done with cars!'
Hell, I could actually just say 'hey im done with cars!'
plenty said:
Refreshingly honest. Lots of 5/10ths drivers wouldn't admit it.
Though IMO if driving dynamics aren't high on the list, then why accept the compromises of a car designed for it? I'd be wafting around in a V8 or V10 barge if B-road hoons weren't my thing. Or is it that a 2-seater sports car has a sense of occasion that a saloon doesn't?
I am very open to any car really, as long as its not just a run of the mill millions on the road car. Something that has a sense of occasion that you walk out to and get a tingle down your spine climbing into it, even if its to drive to the shops and back as much as going on a road trip. Though IMO if driving dynamics aren't high on the list, then why accept the compromises of a car designed for it? I'd be wafting around in a V8 or V10 barge if B-road hoons weren't my thing. Or is it that a 2-seater sports car has a sense of occasion that a saloon doesn't?
My previous cars in order over the last ten years 350z, VX220 NA, R33 GTST, Celica GT4 ST205, VX220 Turbo, Z4 3.0si Coupe.
So generally coupe'ish type cars.
Yes its hard to describe. I think getting in it and not being sat up high and feeling like I am in a mass produced car is not for me. Firing up that engine and hearing it get going is part of it too. I also like to just walk towards it and see something rare and different (so I wouldnt be up for a Golf GTi)
C70R said:
30bhp more, but only 10lbft. There's really very little difference in performance according to magazine tests.
They were also different engines, the M54 vs the much newer design N52. On the road though, very little difference in reality. The biggest difference, if you care to drive that way, is the chassis is claimed by BMW to be x2 the stiffness of the roadster.
Shifter1 said:
Z4C seems to fall in the very common slot of a car which could be "perfect", but falls just short of it and makes you ask, why? Why not go all the way?
It has a lot going for it. It does a lot which other similar cars don't. But yet, it falls just short of delivering. Really a pity, as where we're going with EVs, a car like the Z4C, if it was well rounded and closed the circle, would be such a treasured one.
Lots of reasons. Many being budget related. Manufacturers set a cost price that the car has to fall into and that means you cannot make the perfect car every time. Also range. Make the car too good, that it gets too close to the hero model then you effectively damage that models ability to sell. I would imagine engine wise, they could get more power out of it but then the tolerances to failure reduce, they dont want engines too highly strung failing all over the press reports. So on and so forth. It has a lot going for it. It does a lot which other similar cars don't. But yet, it falls just short of delivering. Really a pity, as where we're going with EVs, a car like the Z4C, if it was well rounded and closed the circle, would be such a treasured one.
No car is perfect, this is designed for a certain type of driving, given a certain budget for its new sale price, and it ticks a lot of those boxes. There will always be downsides though.
Shifter1 said:
Sure. There is also that.
But in the case of the Z4C this doesn't fit.
I don't think it needs more power. It wouldn't have really made that much difference on the budget to have sorted the suspension and not used the dreadful steering. To me it looks like oversight/incompetence.
And what were they protecting? BMW made no AMG GT equivalent, which is about the only type of car they could want to protect. M3 and the like are totally different types of cars and don't overlap.
The Z4M. They were getting too close to it in all honesty with the Z4C, as Mr Tidy says its 80% of the car for 50% of the money. But in the case of the Z4C this doesn't fit.
I don't think it needs more power. It wouldn't have really made that much difference on the budget to have sorted the suspension and not used the dreadful steering. To me it looks like oversight/incompetence.
And what were they protecting? BMW made no AMG GT equivalent, which is about the only type of car they could want to protect. M3 and the like are totally different types of cars and don't overlap.
See the steering thing, really isn't a thing for many owners. It doesn't bother me in the slightest because of the reason I bought the car and how I use it. It isn't dreadful at all if you use the car as a GT car rather than wanting something that bumps this way and that every second. It shouldn't be judged for not providing something it wasn't made to provide. Suspension likewise, is absolutely fine in the Sport spec. The only let down was the run flats, which when swapped out made a huge difference.
Ultimately, BMW would have had research on potential customer bases. Would have marketing lined up for particular segments. They build a car to suit that, not to suit an individual who wants a perfect sports car. Its about building what you think will sell, not building the perfect car that would appeal to a smaller group.
plenty said:
C70R said:
It wasn't a mistake at all. The Z4 was never designed or intended to be the last word in pin-sharp handling.
No, but it would be have been very simple for BMW to have delivered a car to better please the keen drivers, without compromising its ability as a cruiser. So it's entirely fair to describe it as a missed opportunity.C70R said:
Honestly, I've passengered in a Z4 with expensive coilovers, and they were just too hard for British B-roads. The standard suspension is over-damped (classic BMW), but seems to be much more at home on smoother, sweeping A-roads.
Coilovers with road-biased spring rates wouldn't have that issue.AS C70R said, the suspension is nicely set up for hitting A roads hard, which is where it should predominantly live, and in terms of handling and power easily overcomes an MX5 in those circumstances.
Anyway, thread is not here to debate the pros and cons of the Z4C. If you like them you do, if you think they were badly designed, thats your prerogative.
I am now still flipping about wondering what to get after I sell mine. A 987 maybe. But was hoping for something a little bit less seen on the roads.
I am now still flipping about wondering what to get after I sell mine. A 987 maybe. But was hoping for something a little bit less seen on the roads.
plenty said:
Why can't we openly debate the pros and cons of the Z4? And I both like them and own one, and am open to how they can be improved as well as willing to share my experience having worked out how to overcome the flaws. I consider that a more useful contribution to this thread than suggesting there is no debate to be had.
Because its a thread about what car to get next, not a thread about the pros and cons of the outgoing Z4. If you really feel its an important topic you must debate, then start a thread called 'the pros and cons of a Z4 and how to improve them' and crack on. The pros and cons of a Z4 have 0% relevance to what car to get next. C70R said:
You say you're looking to trade down in value terms? If so, you're not going to get much 987 for significantly less than the Z4.
If you were on a budget of ~£7k and wanted something rare, that isn't a hot hatch but feels a bit 'special', I'd consider looking at the FWD Italians. A V6 Alfa GTV/GT or a Fiat Coupe 20V Turbo can be had for that kind of cash, and fit the bill.
If neither of those float your boat, then you're starting to dig into more obscure stuff. Off the top of my head, having just played around with a not dissimilar budget:
- 350z. You'll get one of the earlier ones, but probably a decent one. Convertible looks are 'challenging', but they are good value.
- Chrysler Crossfire V6. I've never fitted worse in a car, but they are rare and vaguely interesting.
- Alfa Brera V6. I'm no fan of the design, but they are certainly rare and different.
If it were my £7k, and I wasn't buying a Z4, I'd be in a facelifted 986 2.7 Boxster.
Cheers, actually I was thinking maybe its time to lose my Alfa cherry!If you were on a budget of ~£7k and wanted something rare, that isn't a hot hatch but feels a bit 'special', I'd consider looking at the FWD Italians. A V6 Alfa GTV/GT or a Fiat Coupe 20V Turbo can be had for that kind of cash, and fit the bill.
If neither of those float your boat, then you're starting to dig into more obscure stuff. Off the top of my head, having just played around with a not dissimilar budget:
- 350z. You'll get one of the earlier ones, but probably a decent one. Convertible looks are 'challenging', but they are good value.
- Chrysler Crossfire V6. I've never fitted worse in a car, but they are rare and vaguely interesting.
- Alfa Brera V6. I'm no fan of the design, but they are certainly rare and different.
If it were my £7k, and I wasn't buying a Z4, I'd be in a facelifted 986 2.7 Boxster.
My whole point in owning cars is to get through ownership experiences and enjoy them for what they are. I certainly haven't been near an Alfa before but have always admired from afar. I do like the GTVs a lot, in red, those wheels and that shiny V6!
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