EVs... no one wants them!

[FiF]

Tony33 said:

braddo said:

No-one is forcing poor people to buy EVs and no-one is forgetting about them. On-street chargers are proliferating and over the next decade we'll see provision improve for those without driveways. Council estates have loads of parking; it's just a matter of time and money to roll out charging points to them. For example for terraced housing, something like a simple channel in the footpath from the front garden to the gutter could open up millions of houses to have EVs.

it is more than just providing chargers though, even if there are theoretically enough chargers for everyone in streets, being able to access them when needed is going to add to stress and exacerbate parking wars.

EVs potentially solve the air quality issues but don’t resolve the congestion and streets filled with parked cars causing obstructions to emergency vehicles, recycling lorries and pavements. I believe the aim will be to dramatically reduce car usage and ownership in urban areas, which will solve some of the charging issues, reversing the mobility of labour that cheap private transport has revolutionised and putting urban streets back to their original design of workforces housed in walking distance of their work place and leisure facilities. People will move over the next 20 years or so as urban transport changes. Look at some of the case studies of car less cities and large towns.

Not going to get into the question of whether there is any deliberate aim to reduce car use or ownership. Or changes to location of housing and workplace.

But the earlier quoted comments just illustrate the deliberate lack of thought about the process. If there are lots of suitable spaces in council estates they will have been included in the research into the existing possible spaces as mentioned. Are there plans to roll it out?

Then you have the councils who when asked admit that they have no current activity to consider this issue going forward and furthermore have no plans to do so.

Secondly maybe some councils are considering channels across the pavement from terraced housing to the kerb. It rather assumes that the resident will always be able to park in 'their' space when they want or need to, even if it's only once or twice a week.

Then there is the it's a 20+ year phased process. Well yes it is practically to get to ~100%, but the reality that in less than 6 years the market will have to have changed markedly, and that's without whatever shambles Labour manages to change or actions they are quietly keeping up their sleeves.

As for poor people aren't being forced to buy EVs, well nobody is being forced, and won't be for a long long time. Yet the phased transformation does depend on somebody buying them so the used versions filter down. Further concerns may be raised in that direction by the boss of the 4th largest by sales carmaker in the world suggesting that as things are the market condition is unsustainable, they are not going to sell cars at a loss and could withdraw brands from the UK market.

So far suspect leaving it all to the market, both in terms of sales and charging infrastructure is teetering towards must try harder.

[biggbn]

braddo said:

If I could have something like this outside my house I would probably buy a PHEV.

Exactly this.

[braddo]

A Labour government will do a better job of planning a national strategy for this long-term transition. The current shambles aren't capable of it and wouldn't anyway because there are too many factions in the party against doing something (anti climate change, 'war on motorist' rubbish).

National funding for local authorities will be needed, along with regulation of the EV-charging market. I wonder if the latter is being left to be expensive (price gouging) at the moment because it helps fund the expansion of the various networks. A lazy way to do it but typical of the Tory approach of recent years.

[Ankh87]

biggbn said:

braddo said:

If I could have something like this outside my house I would probably buy a PHEV.

Exactly this.

Where does the cable go once used? If it goes back under the path, then what about water and dirt getting into the cable. Also how do you get it out from under the path?
You can't exactly leave it out because it'll get run over or someone will trip over it which opens up a nice compensation case.

[silentbrown]

Ankh87 said:

Where does the cable go once used? If it goes back under the path, then what about water and dirt getting into the cable. Also how do you get it out from under the path?
You can't exactly leave it out because it'll get run over or someone will trip over it which opens up a nice compensation case.

[loudlashadjuster]

Ankh87 said:

biggbn said:

braddo said:

If I could have something like this outside my house I would probably buy a PHEV.

Exactly this.

Where does the cable go once used? If it goes back under the path, then what about water and dirt getting into the cable. Also how do you get it out from under the path?
You can't exactly leave it out because it'll get run over or someone will trip over it which opens up a nice compensation case.

I assume it's rubber with a slit in the middle. Push the cable into the slot, plug in, and when you're finished just pull it back up. I'm sure they've though about things like drainage, and the most it would probably need is a rake out now and again to get rid of silt etc.

Really don't see this is as a huge engineering challenge to solve.

[loudlashadjuster]

silentbrown said:

Ankh87 said:

Where does the cable go once used? If it goes back under the path, then what about water and dirt getting into the cable. Also how do you get it out from under the path?
You can't exactly leave it out because it'll get run over or someone will trip over it which opens up a nice compensation case.

Haha, I wasn't far wrong.

[Ankh87]

Ah so the cable goes back into your property. That's good for those who can do that and have no drive. Only issue is those who have no garden to do that but it's a good idea.

Also to add that if you think the council are able to clean them out like they do drains, as it stands councils can't even do that and they are all going bankrupt. So sending the cleaners out isn't going to be a priority.

[CivicDuties]

Ankh87 said:

Ah so the cable goes back into your property. That's good for those who can do that and have no drive. Only issue is those who have no garden to do that but it's a good idea.

Also to add that if you think the council are able to clean them out like they do drains, as it stands councils can't even do that and they are all going bankrupt. So sending the cleaners out isn't going to be a priority.

I think the idea is that it would take the householder 2 minutes to do themselves, once in a blue moon.

As someone who claims to be neutral on EVs, you do seem to be enormously keen to seek out imaginary problems.

[silentbrown]

Ankh87 said:

Ah so the cable goes back into your property. That's good for those who can do that and have no drive. Only issue is those who have no garden to do that but it's a good idea.

Also to add that if you think the council are able to clean them out like they do drains, as it stands councils can't even do that and they are all going bankrupt. So sending the cleaners out isn't going to be a priority.

AIUI it's yours, not the councils. So you clean it yourself.

[monkfish1]

Ankh87 said:

biggbn said:

braddo said:

If I could have something like this outside my house I would probably buy a PHEV.

Exactly this.

Where does the cable go once used? If it goes back under the path, then what about water and dirt getting into the cable. Also how do you get it out from under the path?
You can't exactly leave it out because it'll get run over or someone will trip over it which opens up a nice compensation case.

Exactly, this solution is delusional twaddle.

Cant work and wont work.

So you have a cable from your house to the pavement. But you dont own the road. Anyone can park there. And will.

And it blatently obvious, no one is goint to lift the over to put the cable away on a dark wet december night. Cue leads trailing all over pavements.

It has no relevance as in idea in real life, and is no solution to on street charging.

But only poor people will have this problem. So as some said early, no ones cares. Which is a pretty accurate summary.

[monkfish1]

FiF said:

Not going to get into the question of whether there is any deliberate aim to reduce car use or ownership. Or changes to location of housing and workplace.

But the earlier quoted comments just illustrate the deliberate lack of thought about the process. If there are lots of suitable spaces in council estates they will have been included in the research into the existing possible spaces as mentioned. Are there plans to roll it out?

Then you have the councils who when asked admit that they have no current activity to consider this issue going forward and furthermore have no plans to do so.

Secondly maybe some councils are considering channels across the pavement from terraced housing to the kerb. It rather assumes that the resident will always be able to park in 'their' space when they want or need to, even if it's only once or twice a week.

Then there is the it's a 20+ year phased process. Well yes it is practically to get to ~100%, but the reality that in less than 6 years the market will have to have changed markedly, and that's without whatever shambles Labour manages to change or actions they are quietly keeping up their sleeves.

As for poor people aren't being forced to buy EVs, well nobody is being forced, and won't be for a long long time. Yet the phased transformation does depend on somebody buying them so the used versions filter down. Further concerns may be raised in that direction by the boss of the 4th largest by sales carmaker in the world suggesting that as things are the market condition is unsustainable, they are not going to sell cars at a loss and could withdraw brands from the UK market.

So far suspect leaving it all to the market, both in terms of sales and charging infrastructure is teetering towards must try harder.

Why is it a "council" problem?

And does anyone really think councils are any part of the solution? They cant even manage and deliver the most basic of services, being short of cash, and populated mostly by incompetents.

But they are going to roll out major on street charging programs? Simply laughable.

[otolith]

None of these problems are beyond the wit of man. If we're going to fk up the atmosphere because we can't get our st together and think our way round this stuff, perhaps we deserve it.

[monkfish1]

otolith said:

None of these problems are beyond the wit of man. If we're going to fk up the atmosphere because we can't get our st together and think our way round this stuff, perhaps we deserve it.

Im sure there is a solution, but this nonsense isnt it.

Im still waiting for someone to come up with a sensible one. Given the alledged urgency, one might assume that government would driving the search for a solution? Cant say ive seen any evidence, but that not to say its doesnt exist.

[740EVTORQUES]

monkfish1 said:

Exactly, this solution is delusional twaddle.

Cant work and wont work.

So you have a cable from your house to the pavement. But you dont own the road. Anyone can park there. And will.

And it blatently obvious, no one is goint to lift the over to put the cable away on a dark wet december night. Cue leads trailing all over pavements.

It has no relevance as in idea in real life, and is no solution to on street charging.

But only poor people will have this problem. So as some said early, no ones cares. Which is a pretty accurate summary.

Then just visit your local DC fast charger station say every 9 days going from 10-80% in under 20 minutes adding 180 miles each time (while you shop). that's your 7,000 miles which is the UK average. Competition will probably by then have brought public rates down to well below the equivalent price of petrol as a bonus.

[Dave200]

TheRainMaker said:

740EVTORQUES said:

Its funny how enthusiastic drivers (which is what I consider myself to be) can come to diametrically different conclusions!

It is.

I have just passed the 400+BHP EV to the other half as I find it dull to drive and a bit pointless. I now have an i3s, and I'm much happier bombing about it than that (probably because it is not as good technically so I need to drive it to get the most out of it).

I found all the "performance" EVs a waste of time, tbh (not driven a Kia), with no driver involvement in any way. My 8-year-old can drive them as fast as I can, and they take no skill whatsoever.

My ICE is a nicer and more involved drive for when I actually want to drive (there is no need for a track), while the EV is perfect for running to the dump, taking kids to school, going to the shops or driving in London.

I have had EVs for nearly three years now and have never taken them out just for a drive.

You can't beat an early morning Sunday run.

Edited by TheRainMaker on Friday 26th April 12:24

Completely agree. I've just come back from the Nurburgring, where one of my ICE cars did 25mpg all the way there and back. Those miles will probably be about 50% of the total miles I put on that car this year, all in one week. I got in my Tesla last night to run an errand, and it was absolutely fit for purpose. Ironically, I saw loads of EV chargers around the Ring that I hadn't previously spotted, suggesting that even the ultimate petrolhead nirvana is catering for different types of enthusiast these days.

[FiF]

monkfish1 said:

Why is it a "council" problem?

And does anyone really think councils are any part of the solution? They cant even manage and deliver the most basic of services, being short of cash, and populated mostly by incompetents.

But they are going to roll out major on street charging programs? Simply laughable.

The poster claimed there were lots of spaces on council estates. There are also lots of council owned car parks. Whose problem is it in those circumstances and why would the council not be part of any solution?

Sometimes I wonder what some people including councils use to keep their ears apart.

[braddo]

monkfish1 said:

Exactly, this solution is delusional twaddle.

Cant work and wont work.

So you have a cable from your house to the pavement. But you dont own the road. Anyone can park there. And will.

And it blatently obvious, no one is goint to lift the over to put the cable away on a dark wet december night. Cue leads trailing all over pavements.

It has no relevance as in idea in real life, and is no solution to on street charging.

But only poor people will have this problem. So as some said early, no ones cares. Which is a pretty accurate summary.

What?!

That solution is ridiculously simple - connect cable to house, lay the cable in the trough, connect cable to car. Next morning, disconnect cable and put inside car or house.

Those charging cables are worth money, no-one is going to leave them out when not in use (unless they are complete idiots). Most people won't need to charge more than once per week.

There will need to be a bit of collective thinking about how to manage on-street parking and for apartment car parks. These are not problems that threaten the viability of EVs.

Also, there are hundreds of thousands of terraced houses in the UK that are worth £1m+. This is not about the poor being neglected in the EV transition...

[Ankh87]

braddo said:

What?!

That solution is ridiculously simple - connect cable to house, lay the cable in the trough, connect cable to car. Next morning, disconnect cable and put inside car or house.

Those charging cables are worth money, no-one is going to leave them out when not in use (unless they are complete idiots). Most people won't need to charge more than once per week.

There will need to be a bit of collective thinking about how to manage on-street parking and for apartment car parks. These are not problems that threaten the viability of EVs.

Also, there are hundreds of thousands of terraced houses in the UK that are worth £1m+. This is not about the poor being neglected in the EV transition...

On-street parking isn't as simple as you think it is. Everyone wants to park outside their home regardless if they have one or multiple cars. I've seen it first hand where even those who have this issue and have one car per household, there's still not enough on-street parking. Cars are having to be parked on the next street.

When it comes to on-street parking, you'll find that people are not reasonable or rational about this at all. Even now, where there isn't really a need to be parked outside their house as they are not charging their cars. This isn't going to change in the future, if anything it's going to be far worse. Especially when cars are parked just that 2 meters further down, making all the other cars further down, meaning the cable won't reach. Or if someone goes from say a small hatchback to a big long Skoda Superb. Stupid things like that have a knock on effect.

Just like now, when I go to the in-laws if I want to be parked on their street, then I take a risk because there is no off-street parking at all. So I take the partners tiny Kia because I know that if there is a space, it's usually just big enough for that car. If I take mine then every time I go to the in-laws I have to park 2 streets away because that's where there is space. It's a complete pain.


What it comes down to is that people are selfish and really do not give a hoot.


I would like to add, that even digging up the path just to lay this cable is going to cost at least £500. That's before even paying to have the thing installed.

[biggbn]

monkfish1 said:

Ankh87 said:

biggbn said:

braddo said:

If I could have something like this outside my house I would probably buy a PHEV.

Exactly this.

Where does the cable go once used? If it goes back under the path, then what about water and dirt getting into the cable. Also how do you get it out from under the path?
You can't exactly leave it out because it'll get run over or someone will trip over it which opens up a nice compensation case.

Exactly, this solution is delusional twaddle.

Cant work and wont work.

So you have a cable from your house to the pavement. But you dont own the road. Anyone can park there. And will.

And it blatently obvious, no one is goint to lift the over to put the cable away on a dark wet december night. Cue leads trailing all over pavements.

It has no relevance as in idea in real life, and is no solution to on street charging.

But only poor people will have this problem. So as some said early, no ones cares. Which is a pretty accurate summary.

I have no off street parking. I park in the same space every day. Have done since I moved into the house. Only times I've ever parked elsewhere is to let my daughter or another visitor park there. You are bang on, for many, in busier streets and bigger towns, it wouldn't be a solution but for me it would be, 100%