EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
The £39.5k ID3 is far from bog standard, that car was £30k before they pulled it from the lineup due to supply shortages. The £40,400 Model 3's are limited stock in limited specs, a factory order is still £42,990 with no options.
Kia, Hyundai and Polestar all sell EV's within a couple of grand of the Model 3 RWD and have the advantage of being better built and hatchbacks.
Self driving is a farce BTW, and if you think a Model 2 will be that cheap I've got a bridge to sell you. It'll be £30k+ guaranteed.
I ran a Model 3 Performance for 2 years BTW.
Kia, Hyundai and Polestar all sell EV's within a couple of grand of the Model 3 RWD and have the advantage of being better built and hatchbacks.
Self driving is a farce BTW, and if you think a Model 2 will be that cheap I've got a bridge to sell you. It'll be £30k+ guaranteed.
I ran a Model 3 Performance for 2 years BTW.
SWoll said:
The £39.5k ID3 is far from bog standard, that car was £30k before they pulled it from the lineup due to supply shortages. The £40,400 Model 3's are limited stock in limited specs, a factory order is still £42,990 with no options.
Kia, Hyundai and Polestar all sell EV's within a couple of grand of the Model 3 RWD and have the advantage of being better built and hatchbacks.
Self driving is a farce BTW, and if you think a Model 2 will be that cheap I've got a bridge to sell you. It'll be £30k+ guaranteed.
I ran a Model 3 Performance for 2 years BTW.
Tell me how an ID3 at £39500 is comparable to a £40400 model 3 sr. There is no point saying they are £42990 when you can order them now for £40400 on the Tesla website. Electric front seats, heated steering wheel ,better sound system , electric tailgate ,better range , massively faster, safer vehicle , more space , sentry mode , full camera cover while driving, heat pump and hugely better tech with wireless updates and last but not least, access to a proper ev charging network. Who in their right mind would touch an Id3 right now ? And what options do you want on your Tesla . You can only spec paint, 19 inch wheels and a tow hitch.Kia, Hyundai and Polestar all sell EV's within a couple of grand of the Model 3 RWD and have the advantage of being better built and hatchbacks.
Self driving is a farce BTW, and if you think a Model 2 will be that cheap I've got a bridge to sell you. It'll be £30k+ guaranteed.
I ran a Model 3 Performance for 2 years BTW.
Show me a Polstar with anywhere near the spec of a new model 3 sr at £40400 ? In fact show me any of the vehicles you have listed above with anywhere near the level of spec and tell me if they get near Tesla current price. I can’t as they are all around £50000! Not only are they asking £50000 none of them have access to a reliable national charging network. Hence why you see loads of Tesla’s on the motorway network compared to every other EV out there.
I can’t really discuss self driving as I don’t know much about it but personally I wouldn’t bet against Tesla. It will be interesting to look back on this thread because my gut Tesla will crack it.
The model 2 will change the market completely. If it’s true they can manufacture the new car at 50% less then my bet is they could retail them for £25000 but they won’t need to. Nothing will get near if they retail it for around £29000 to £32000.
I should add that apart from driving them I don’t really like Elon and I find ev cars dull as dish water but this is like watching Apple bringing the iPhone to the market and Nokia and Blackberry saying they aren’t bothered. They should be.
Edited by Chipper on Saturday 11th March 08:18
Chipper said:
Tell me how an ID3 at £39500 is comparable to a £40400 model 3 sr. There is no point saying they are £42990 when you can order them now for £40400 on the Tesla website. Electric front seats, heated steering wheel ,better sound system , electric tailgate ,better range , massively faster, safer vehicle , more space , sentry mode , full camera cover while driving, heat pump and hugely better tech with wireless updates and last but not least, access to a proper ev charging network. Who in their right mind would touch an Id3 right now ? And what options do you want on your Tesla . You can only spec paint, 19 inch wheels and a tow hitch.
Show me a Polstar with anywhere near the spec of a new model 3 sr at £40400 ? In fact show me any of the vehicles you have listed above with anywhere near the level of spec and tell me if they get near Tesla current price. I can’t as they are all around £50000! Not only are they asking £50000 none of them have access to a reliable national charging network. Hence why you see loads of Tesla’s on the motorway network compared to every other EV out there.
I can’t really discuss self driving as I don’t know much about it but personally I wouldn’t bet against Tesla. It will be interesting to look back on this thread because my gut Tesla will crack it.
The model 2 will change the market completely. If it’s true they can manufacture the new car at 50% less then my bet is they could retail them for £25000 but they won’t need to. Nothing will get near if they retail it for around £29000 to £32000.
I should add that apart from driving them I don’t really like Elon and I find ev cars dull as dish water but this is like watching Apple bringing the iPhone to the market and Nokia and Blackberry saying they aren’t bothered. They should be.
£25k in today's money is like £14k-£16k pre pandemic. That's like Dacia and Ford Fiesta pricing. is the model 2 going to be a tiny vehicle like a Smart or Aygo?Show me a Polstar with anywhere near the spec of a new model 3 sr at £40400 ? In fact show me any of the vehicles you have listed above with anywhere near the level of spec and tell me if they get near Tesla current price. I can’t as they are all around £50000! Not only are they asking £50000 none of them have access to a reliable national charging network. Hence why you see loads of Tesla’s on the motorway network compared to every other EV out there.
I can’t really discuss self driving as I don’t know much about it but personally I wouldn’t bet against Tesla. It will be interesting to look back on this thread because my gut Tesla will crack it.
The model 2 will change the market completely. If it’s true they can manufacture the new car at 50% less then my bet is they could retail them for £25000 but they won’t need to. Nothing will get near if they retail it for around £29000 to £32000.
I should add that apart from driving them I don’t really like Elon and I find ev cars dull as dish water but this is like watching Apple bringing the iPhone to the market and Nokia and Blackberry saying they aren’t bothered. They should be.
Edited by Chipper on Saturday 11th March 08:18
I can't imagine a £25k EV at full size car without major compromises.
I don't think it's as simple as 'cheap' cleans up the market. Sometimes cheap cars lose value quickly because they're so cheap. It's the ability to hold residual value which drives monthly cost and cost of ownership over a few years.
In the majority of cases, cars aren't just A to B white goods. They are a personal place - no matter the budget. If cheap was all that mattered we'd get those £10k Indian cars here that would overtake the market. Just building a safe car with all the safety tech is not cheap anymore.
Self driving isn't happening for many years. Let's not bother pretending it's going to solve all our problems.
There is a lot of Tesla koolaid on the internet and media. The biggest investors are behind Tesla and they own media outlets who have been running campaigns. It's pretty biased out there. The Californian woke crowd, who read the Guardian in the UK, are giving up their Teslas because they see Elon as right wing for example. Droves of young snowflakes and future buyers giving them up!
Anyway, I wouldn't buy the current crop of Teslas because subjectively it's like buying a Prius. Really hard to get excited about. But I do like the company, how it's pushing a very lazy legacy market, furthering battery tech and the software experience of a car. It's the electric shock that was needed! The consumer benefits here and that's the main thing. We just need to be careful with the koolaid.
Edited by silent ninja on Saturday 11th March 09:08
EV demand is purely tax led. I would happily use a 3 yr old Tesla for 22k but my companycan't write down the cost in the same way as a new one, making it no cheaper in real terms. Unless this changes the only demand for used EVs is the retail sector, and the compromises in buying EV are simply not worth making at present.
fbwinston said:
EV demand is purely tax led. I would happily use a 3 yr old Tesla for 22k but my companycan't write down the cost in the same way as a new one, making it no cheaper in real terms. Unless this changes the only demand for used EVs is the retail sector, and the compromises in buying EV are simply not worth making at present.
Disagree, we brought one for family use as a local runabout (c.20k p.a.) as it beats paying fuel prices.It also was starship like in terms of performance and refinement compared to a similar priced hybrid (C-HR vs Ionic 5)
We know a C sized EV for about £25k is possible because MG have done one (which has now gone up to £27k but you get the point).
Furthermore by all accounts they have a pretty big margin at that price. Tesla could also probably sell a Model 3 for £32k and still make more money per car than VW do on a ID3.
Tesla seem simply miles ahead on their cost base compared to the traditional manufacturers.
Also on the "cheap" front note that Dacia are the part of Renault group who are actually making all the profit at the moment.
Furthermore by all accounts they have a pretty big margin at that price. Tesla could also probably sell a Model 3 for £32k and still make more money per car than VW do on a ID3.
Tesla seem simply miles ahead on their cost base compared to the traditional manufacturers.
Also on the "cheap" front note that Dacia are the part of Renault group who are actually making all the profit at the moment.
Edited by confused_buyer on Saturday 11th March 09:27
confused_buyer said:
We know a C sized EV for about £25k is possible because MG have done one (which has now gone up to £27k but you get the point).
Furthermore by all accounts they have a pretty big margin at that price. Tesla could also probably sell a Model 3 for £32k and still make more money per car than VW do on a ID3.
Tesla seem simply miles ahead on their cost base compared to the traditional manufacturers.
Also on the "cheap" front note that Dacia are the part of Renault group who are actually making all the profit at the moment.
And also have some of the best residuals out there.Furthermore by all accounts they have a pretty big margin at that price. Tesla could also probably sell a Model 3 for £32k and still make more money per car than VW do on a ID3.
Tesla seem simply miles ahead on their cost base compared to the traditional manufacturers.
Also on the "cheap" front note that Dacia are the part of Renault group who are actually making all the profit at the moment.
Edited by confused_buyer on Saturday 11th March 09:27
It seems the world don't have the same faith in tesla as some of our PHs. Remember they are cutting prices not for our benefit, not for the good of their health but to fight off competition. Very simple, if they could have continued selling cars at the higher prices they would have. Its more profit so why wouldn't they?
They cut prices because they had to in an attempt to fend off the competition who have largely already caught up.
No one knows the exact profit margins for individual models but the consensus seems to be that it VW are making $4k on a ID3 Tesla are making $12-14k on Model 3.
That's a huge difference and gives Tesla a lot of options as to whether to grab more market share with lower prices or simply have a lot more money to invest in future technology.
That's also before they implement their stated cost savings coming done the line.
If Tesla do eventually hit their 12m+ per year units at some point that's a lot of lost sales for current manufacturers.
That's a huge difference and gives Tesla a lot of options as to whether to grab more market share with lower prices or simply have a lot more money to invest in future technology.
That's also before they implement their stated cost savings coming done the line.
If Tesla do eventually hit their 12m+ per year units at some point that's a lot of lost sales for current manufacturers.
Longy00000 said:
They cut prices because they had to in an attempt to fend off the competition who have largely already caught up.
In other words Tesla also seem to be keen on putting the likes of VW and Ford out of business. It's old school predatory pricing and forcing the likes of Ford into losing more money the more cars they sell.
Longy00000 said:
It seems the world don't have the same faith in tesla as some of our PHs. Remember they are cutting prices not for our benefit, not for the good of their health but to fight off competition. Very simple, if they could have continued selling cars at the higher prices they would have. Its more profit so why wouldn't they?
They cut prices because they had to in an attempt to fend off the competition who have largely already caught up.
Woe abounds.
confused_buyer said:
No one knows the exact profit margins for individual models but the consensus seems to be that it VW are making $4k on a ID3 Tesla are making $12-14k on Model 3.
That's a huge difference and gives Tesla a lot of options as to whether to grab more market share with lower prices or simply have a lot more money to invest in future technology.
That's also before they implement their stated cost savings coming done the line.
If Tesla do eventually hit their 12m+ per year units at some point that's a lot of lost sales for current manufacturers.
Tesla sell their cars direct don’t they? So they are making a retail profit margin. The legacy manufacturers selling through franchise dealers make a wholesale margin and then the retailer makes the retail margin. Mercedes is switching to an agency model with its dealers and JLR and others are following suit. This will mean you buy the car direct and the dealer is just paid a fee to prepare it and hand it over. That's a huge difference and gives Tesla a lot of options as to whether to grab more market share with lower prices or simply have a lot more money to invest in future technology.
That's also before they implement their stated cost savings coming done the line.
If Tesla do eventually hit their 12m+ per year units at some point that's a lot of lost sales for current manufacturers.
Wholesale margins differ wildly per model and manufacturer. I know JLR make 18% wholesale margin on a Range Rover but on an XE or XF make about 4% so the rates can vary wildly even within a model range
bennno said:
Disagree, we brought one for family use as a local runabout (c.20k p.a.) as it beats paying fuel prices.
It also was starship like in terms of performance and refinement compared to a similar priced hybrid (C-HR vs Ionic 5)
I was generalising of course, there will always be exceptions and you are one of them, but the residuals don't lie.It also was starship like in terms of performance and refinement compared to a similar priced hybrid (C-HR vs Ionic 5)
The point I was also trying to make with the share oriented over the last year and I can only go on what my investment analyst type friends tell me is that for tesla to achieve its huge increase in production it will require anything from $170 to $210billion investment yo achieve that.
The question is where do tesla find that sort of money and how do they repay it if selling at a much reduced income per unit as they have suggested they will have to do given elons price cutting of late.
The issue is nothing to do with the product or evs generally it's all about manufacturing in a much bigger way and being able to achieve this whilst staying profitable and not being too leveraged up so you can survive a down turn.
This is a much bigger task than some might think.
The question is where do tesla find that sort of money and how do they repay it if selling at a much reduced income per unit as they have suggested they will have to do given elons price cutting of late.
The issue is nothing to do with the product or evs generally it's all about manufacturing in a much bigger way and being able to achieve this whilst staying profitable and not being too leveraged up so you can survive a down turn.
This is a much bigger task than some might think.
Longy00000 said:
The point I was also trying to make with the share oriented over the last year and I can only go on what my investment analyst type friends tell me is that for tesla to achieve its huge increase in production it will require anything from $170 to $210billion investment yo achieve that.
The question is where do tesla find that sort of money and how do they repay it if selling at a much reduced income per unit as they have suggested they will have to do given elons price cutting of late.
The issue is nothing to do with the product or evs generally it's all about manufacturing in a much bigger way and being able to achieve this whilst staying profitable and not being too leveraged up so you can survive a down turn.
This is a much bigger task than some might think.
Have you seen Wall Street analysts car productions figures estimates on Tesla ? Honestly go look at the numbers. Have a look at just their guess on Cybertruck production numbers. They haven’t even priced in the new platform vehicle. The question is where do tesla find that sort of money and how do they repay it if selling at a much reduced income per unit as they have suggested they will have to do given elons price cutting of late.
The issue is nothing to do with the product or evs generally it's all about manufacturing in a much bigger way and being able to achieve this whilst staying profitable and not being too leveraged up so you can survive a down turn.
This is a much bigger task than some might think.
Longy00000 said:
It seems the world don't have the same faith in tesla as some of our PHs. Remember they are cutting prices not for our benefit, not for the good of their health but to fight off competition. Very simple, if they could have continued selling cars at the higher prices they would have. Its more profit so why wouldn't they?
They cut prices because they had to in an attempt to fend off the competition who have largely already caught up.
Ford shares are up 9% over the same period, GMC down 4%.
They've cut prices as they have significantly more margin than any other manufacturer to play with, have sensed the way the wind is blowing, and realized they can absolutely hammer the competition whilst taking a longer term view of the market.
Tesla has mastered the EV production and have a massive advantage in profit per car they sell which is only going to escalate as their production costs come down further. How have other manufacturers caught up ? Ford are now selling at a loss every Mach E trying to compete with Tesla who are still making healthy profits. Renault CEO has said it’s terrible how Tesla have reduced their prices for their customers but really it’s because they can’t compete. Even Toyota have just done a tear down on a model Y and have stated the level of engineering and manufacturing in a model Y is highly impressive and they will have to think of an entirely new way to manufacture their cars.
Want to know why you can only get £1300 off an id3 . Because VW can’t afford to compete. And don’t think they are selling well because nobody wants to touch a new id3 now ( my friend works in sales at a large vw dealership group )
Since the production Tesla have supposedly reduced the manufacturing cost of a model 3 by 30%! Let me repeat that . 30% reduction costs on the model 3 have already been achieved and they are now stating they will have a 50 % reduction on the new platform. Their profit margins is supposedly more than double than any other EV vehicle and that’s before you even contemplate that they are getting profit from add on such as their subscription, performance upgrades (or what ever they are called ) and their self driving packs.
I’m going to repeat that again because I don’t actually think people understand this. If Tesla can retail cars now , undercut every manufacturer pricing by 20% and still make a very good profit and nobody can compete unless they sell their cars at a loss , THEN W@F are the Legacy manufacturers going to do in I would guess less than two years when Tesla launch the model 2 which is going to be a further 50% CHEAPER TO MANUFACTUER?
What we are all seeing is akin to watching the high street collapse with the rise of the internet and Apple launching the iPhone when Nokia ( VW ) Blackberry (Renault ) were about. Think all those shiny dealerships with all those staff will be around in ten years? BMW and Mercedes are already ditching dealerships to guess what - copy Tesla in purchasing online. Just look at Taycan owners getting a bill for £1100 for their first service. The writing is on the wall for those charges.
I get the hate , I get that people don’t like Musk , some don’t like the look of them and some people don’t like change but Christ, if I have to hear or see another stupid thread about “ they are too expensive “ - “ I can’t drive to Cornwall to my second home “ and the fact for some dumb reason people seem to think charging your car at home is a nightmare so you wake up with a full tank (see what I did there ) when you can be stuck at a petrol station for 10 minutes spending a fortune each week is for some reason more enjoyable is beyond me.
Enjoy the fact you can now go and purchase a used model 3 for between £20000 and £25000 that will smash most cars with their insane acceleration, are still immensely cheap to run and have more technology than any other vehicle out there. fundamentally though,, and this is all imo. It’s going to be Tesla and the Chinese that are going to shape the future in the car industry.
Want to know why you can only get £1300 off an id3 . Because VW can’t afford to compete. And don’t think they are selling well because nobody wants to touch a new id3 now ( my friend works in sales at a large vw dealership group )
Since the production Tesla have supposedly reduced the manufacturing cost of a model 3 by 30%! Let me repeat that . 30% reduction costs on the model 3 have already been achieved and they are now stating they will have a 50 % reduction on the new platform. Their profit margins is supposedly more than double than any other EV vehicle and that’s before you even contemplate that they are getting profit from add on such as their subscription, performance upgrades (or what ever they are called ) and their self driving packs.
I’m going to repeat that again because I don’t actually think people understand this. If Tesla can retail cars now , undercut every manufacturer pricing by 20% and still make a very good profit and nobody can compete unless they sell their cars at a loss , THEN W@F are the Legacy manufacturers going to do in I would guess less than two years when Tesla launch the model 2 which is going to be a further 50% CHEAPER TO MANUFACTUER?
What we are all seeing is akin to watching the high street collapse with the rise of the internet and Apple launching the iPhone when Nokia ( VW ) Blackberry (Renault ) were about. Think all those shiny dealerships with all those staff will be around in ten years? BMW and Mercedes are already ditching dealerships to guess what - copy Tesla in purchasing online. Just look at Taycan owners getting a bill for £1100 for their first service. The writing is on the wall for those charges.
I get the hate , I get that people don’t like Musk , some don’t like the look of them and some people don’t like change but Christ, if I have to hear or see another stupid thread about “ they are too expensive “ - “ I can’t drive to Cornwall to my second home “ and the fact for some dumb reason people seem to think charging your car at home is a nightmare so you wake up with a full tank (see what I did there ) when you can be stuck at a petrol station for 10 minutes spending a fortune each week is for some reason more enjoyable is beyond me.
Enjoy the fact you can now go and purchase a used model 3 for between £20000 and £25000 that will smash most cars with their insane acceleration, are still immensely cheap to run and have more technology than any other vehicle out there. fundamentally though,, and this is all imo. It’s going to be Tesla and the Chinese that are going to shape the future in the car industry.
Edited by Chipper on Saturday 11th March 11:46
Chipper said:
Tesla has mastered the EV production and have a massive advantage in profit per car they sell which is only going to escalate as their production costs come down further. How have other manufacturers caught up ? Ford are now selling at a loss every Mach E trying to compete with Tesla who are still making healthy profits. Renault CEO has said it’s terrible how Tesla have reduced their prices for their customers but really it’s because they can’t compete. Even Toyota have just done a tear down on a model Y and have stated the level of engineering and manufacturing in a model Y is highly impressive and they will have to think of an entirely new way to manufacture their cars.
Want to know why you can only get £1300 off an id3 . Because VW can’t afford to compete. And don’t think they are selling well because nobody wants to touch a new id3 now ( my friend works in sales at a large vw dealership group )
Since the production Tesla have supposedly reduced the manufacturing cost of a model 3 by 30%! Let me repeat that . 30% reduction costs on the model 3 have already been achieved and they are now stating they will have a 50 % reduction on the new platform. Their profit margins is supposedly more than double than any other EV vehicle and that’s before you even contemplate that they are getting profit from add on such as their subscription, performance upgrades (or what ever they are called ) and their self driving packs.
I’m going to repeat that again because I don’t actually think people understand this. If Tesla can retail cars now , undercut every manufacturer pricing by 20% and still make a very good profit and nobody can compete unless they sell their cars at a loss , THEN W@F are the Legacy manufacturers going to do in I would guess less than two years when Tesla launch the model 2 which is going to be a further 50% CHEAPER TO MANUFACTUER?
What we are all seeing is akin to watching the high street collapse with the rise of the internet and Apple launching the iPhone when Nokia ( VW ) Blackberry (Renault ) were about. Think all those shiny dealerships with all those staff will be around in ten years? BMW and Mercedes are already ditching dealerships to guess what - copy Tesla in purchasing online. Just look at Taycan owners getting a bill for £1100 for their first service. The writing is on the wall for those charges.
I get the hate , I get that people don’t like Musk , some don’t like the look of them and some people don’t like change but Christ, if I have to hear or see another stupid thread about “ they are too expensive “ - “ I can’t drive to Cornwall to my second home “ and the fact for some dumb reason people seem to think charging your car at home is a nightmare so you wake up with a full tank (see what I did there ) when you can be stuck at a petrol station for 10 minutes spending a fortune each week is for some reason more enjoyable is beyond me.
Enjoy the fact you can now go and purchase a used model 3 for between £20000 and £25000 that will smash most cars with their insane acceleration, are still immensely cheap to run and have more technology than any other vehicle out there. fundamentally though,, and this is all imo. It’s going to be Tesla and the Chinese that are going to shape the future in the car industry.
While I get you love Tesla I’m afraid the world just doesn’t work like that. Want to know why you can only get £1300 off an id3 . Because VW can’t afford to compete. And don’t think they are selling well because nobody wants to touch a new id3 now ( my friend works in sales at a large vw dealership group )
Since the production Tesla have supposedly reduced the manufacturing cost of a model 3 by 30%! Let me repeat that . 30% reduction costs on the model 3 have already been achieved and they are now stating they will have a 50 % reduction on the new platform. Their profit margins is supposedly more than double than any other EV vehicle and that’s before you even contemplate that they are getting profit from add on such as their subscription, performance upgrades (or what ever they are called ) and their self driving packs.
I’m going to repeat that again because I don’t actually think people understand this. If Tesla can retail cars now , undercut every manufacturer pricing by 20% and still make a very good profit and nobody can compete unless they sell their cars at a loss , THEN W@F are the Legacy manufacturers going to do in I would guess less than two years when Tesla launch the model 2 which is going to be a further 50% CHEAPER TO MANUFACTUER?
What we are all seeing is akin to watching the high street collapse with the rise of the internet and Apple launching the iPhone when Nokia ( VW ) Blackberry (Renault ) were about. Think all those shiny dealerships with all those staff will be around in ten years? BMW and Mercedes are already ditching dealerships to guess what - copy Tesla in purchasing online. Just look at Taycan owners getting a bill for £1100 for their first service. The writing is on the wall for those charges.
I get the hate , I get that people don’t like Musk , some don’t like the look of them and some people don’t like change but Christ, if I have to hear or see another stupid thread about “ they are too expensive “ - “ I can’t drive to Cornwall to my second home “ and the fact for some dumb reason people seem to think charging your car at home is a nightmare so you wake up with a full tank (see what I did there ) when you can be stuck at a petrol station for 10 minutes spending a fortune each week is for some reason more enjoyable is beyond me.
Enjoy the fact you can now go and purchase a used model 3 for between £20000 and £25000 that will smash most cars with their insane acceleration, are still immensely cheap to run and have more technology than any other vehicle out there. fundamentally though,, and this is all imo. It’s going to be Tesla and the Chinese that are going to shape the future in the car industry.
Edited by Chipper on Saturday 11th March 11:46
If they did everyone would just drive a Toyota Auris.
CG2020UK said:
Chipper said:
Tesla has mastered the EV production and have a massive advantage in profit per car they sell which is only going to escalate as their production costs come down further. How have other manufacturers caught up ? Ford are now selling at a loss every Mach E trying to compete with Tesla who are still making healthy profits. Renault CEO has said it’s terrible how Tesla have reduced their prices for their customers but really it’s because they can’t compete. Even Toyota have just done a tear down on a model Y and have stated the level of engineering and manufacturing in a model Y is highly impressive and they will have to think of an entirely new way to manufacture their cars.
Want to know why you can only get £1300 off an id3 . Because VW can’t afford to compete. And don’t think they are selling well because nobody wants to touch a new id3 now ( my friend works in sales at a large vw dealership group )
Since the production Tesla have supposedly reduced the manufacturing cost of a model 3 by 30%! Let me repeat that . 30% reduction costs on the model 3 have already been achieved and they are now stating they will have a 50 % reduction on the new platform. Their profit margins is supposedly more than double than any other EV vehicle and that’s before you even contemplate that they are getting profit from add on such as their subscription, performance upgrades (or what ever they are called ) and their self driving packs.
I’m going to repeat that again because I don’t actually think people understand this. If Tesla can retail cars now , undercut every manufacturer pricing by 20% and still make a very good profit and nobody can compete unless they sell their cars at a loss , THEN W@F are the Legacy manufacturers going to do in I would guess less than two years when Tesla launch the model 2 which is going to be a further 50% CHEAPER TO MANUFACTUER?
What we are all seeing is akin to watching the high street collapse with the rise of the internet and Apple launching the iPhone when Nokia ( VW ) Blackberry (Renault ) were about. Think all those shiny dealerships with all those staff will be around in ten years? BMW and Mercedes are already ditching dealerships to guess what - copy Tesla in purchasing online. Just look at Taycan owners getting a bill for £1100 for their first service. The writing is on the wall for those charges.
I get the hate , I get that people don’t like Musk , some don’t like the look of them and some people don’t like change but Christ, if I have to hear or see another stupid thread about “ they are too expensive “ - “ I can’t drive to Cornwall to my second home “ and the fact for some dumb reason people seem to think charging your car at home is a nightmare so you wake up with a full tank (see what I did there ) when you can be stuck at a petrol station for 10 minutes spending a fortune each week is for some reason more enjoyable is beyond me.
Enjoy the fact you can now go and purchase a used model 3 for between £20000 and £25000 that will smash most cars with their insane acceleration, are still immensely cheap to run and have more technology than any other vehicle out there. fundamentally though,, and this is all imo. It’s going to be Tesla and the Chinese that are going to shape the future in the car industry.
While I get you love Tesla I’m afraid the world just doesn’t work like that. Want to know why you can only get £1300 off an id3 . Because VW can’t afford to compete. And don’t think they are selling well because nobody wants to touch a new id3 now ( my friend works in sales at a large vw dealership group )
Since the production Tesla have supposedly reduced the manufacturing cost of a model 3 by 30%! Let me repeat that . 30% reduction costs on the model 3 have already been achieved and they are now stating they will have a 50 % reduction on the new platform. Their profit margins is supposedly more than double than any other EV vehicle and that’s before you even contemplate that they are getting profit from add on such as their subscription, performance upgrades (or what ever they are called ) and their self driving packs.
I’m going to repeat that again because I don’t actually think people understand this. If Tesla can retail cars now , undercut every manufacturer pricing by 20% and still make a very good profit and nobody can compete unless they sell their cars at a loss , THEN W@F are the Legacy manufacturers going to do in I would guess less than two years when Tesla launch the model 2 which is going to be a further 50% CHEAPER TO MANUFACTUER?
What we are all seeing is akin to watching the high street collapse with the rise of the internet and Apple launching the iPhone when Nokia ( VW ) Blackberry (Renault ) were about. Think all those shiny dealerships with all those staff will be around in ten years? BMW and Mercedes are already ditching dealerships to guess what - copy Tesla in purchasing online. Just look at Taycan owners getting a bill for £1100 for their first service. The writing is on the wall for those charges.
I get the hate , I get that people don’t like Musk , some don’t like the look of them and some people don’t like change but Christ, if I have to hear or see another stupid thread about “ they are too expensive “ - “ I can’t drive to Cornwall to my second home “ and the fact for some dumb reason people seem to think charging your car at home is a nightmare so you wake up with a full tank (see what I did there ) when you can be stuck at a petrol station for 10 minutes spending a fortune each week is for some reason more enjoyable is beyond me.
Enjoy the fact you can now go and purchase a used model 3 for between £20000 and £25000 that will smash most cars with their insane acceleration, are still immensely cheap to run and have more technology than any other vehicle out there. fundamentally though,, and this is all imo. It’s going to be Tesla and the Chinese that are going to shape the future in the car industry.
Edited by Chipper on Saturday 11th March 11:46
If they did everyone would just drive a Toyota Auris.
There are almost no car enthusiasts left. And most of the few people who would call themselves an enthusiast drive a BMW, Audi or Mercedes. Which are all basically an Auris.
SpeckledJim said:
CG2020UK said:
Chipper said:
Tesla has mastered the EV production and have a massive advantage in profit per car they sell which is only going to escalate as their production costs come down further. How have other manufacturers caught up ? Ford are now selling at a loss every Mach E trying to compete with Tesla who are still making healthy profits. Renault CEO has said it’s terrible how Tesla have reduced their prices for their customers but really it’s because they can’t compete. Even Toyota have just done a tear down on a model Y and have stated the level of engineering and manufacturing in a model Y is highly impressive and they will have to think of an entirely new way to manufacture their cars.
Want to know why you can only get £1300 off an id3 . Because VW can’t afford to compete. And don’t think they are selling well because nobody wants to touch a new id3 now ( my friend works in sales at a large vw dealership group )
Since the production Tesla have supposedly reduced the manufacturing cost of a model 3 by 30%! Let me repeat that . 30% reduction costs on the model 3 have already been achieved and they are now stating they will have a 50 % reduction on the new platform. Their profit margins is supposedly more than double than any other EV vehicle and that’s before you even contemplate that they are getting profit from add on such as their subscription, performance upgrades (or what ever they are called ) and their self driving packs.
I’m going to repeat that again because I don’t actually think people understand this. If Tesla can retail cars now , undercut every manufacturer pricing by 20% and still make a very good profit and nobody can compete unless they sell their cars at a loss , THEN W@F are the Legacy manufacturers going to do in I would guess less than two years when Tesla launch the model 2 which is going to be a further 50% CHEAPER TO MANUFACTUER?
What we are all seeing is akin to watching the high street collapse with the rise of the internet and Apple launching the iPhone when Nokia ( VW ) Blackberry (Renault ) were about. Think all those shiny dealerships with all those staff will be around in ten years? BMW and Mercedes are already ditching dealerships to guess what - copy Tesla in purchasing online. Just look at Taycan owners getting a bill for £1100 for their first service. The writing is on the wall for those charges.
I get the hate , I get that people don’t like Musk , some don’t like the look of them and some people don’t like change but Christ, if I have to hear or see another stupid thread about “ they are too expensive “ - “ I can’t drive to Cornwall to my second home “ and the fact for some dumb reason people seem to think charging your car at home is a nightmare so you wake up with a full tank (see what I did there ) when you can be stuck at a petrol station for 10 minutes spending a fortune each week is for some reason more enjoyable is beyond me.
Enjoy the fact you can now go and purchase a used model 3 for between £20000 and £25000 that will smash most cars with their insane acceleration, are still immensely cheap to run and have more technology than any other vehicle out there. fundamentally though,, and this is all imo. It’s going to be Tesla and the Chinese that are going to shape the future in the car industry.
While I get you love Tesla I’m afraid the world just doesn’t work like that. Want to know why you can only get £1300 off an id3 . Because VW can’t afford to compete. And don’t think they are selling well because nobody wants to touch a new id3 now ( my friend works in sales at a large vw dealership group )
Since the production Tesla have supposedly reduced the manufacturing cost of a model 3 by 30%! Let me repeat that . 30% reduction costs on the model 3 have already been achieved and they are now stating they will have a 50 % reduction on the new platform. Their profit margins is supposedly more than double than any other EV vehicle and that’s before you even contemplate that they are getting profit from add on such as their subscription, performance upgrades (or what ever they are called ) and their self driving packs.
I’m going to repeat that again because I don’t actually think people understand this. If Tesla can retail cars now , undercut every manufacturer pricing by 20% and still make a very good profit and nobody can compete unless they sell their cars at a loss , THEN W@F are the Legacy manufacturers going to do in I would guess less than two years when Tesla launch the model 2 which is going to be a further 50% CHEAPER TO MANUFACTUER?
What we are all seeing is akin to watching the high street collapse with the rise of the internet and Apple launching the iPhone when Nokia ( VW ) Blackberry (Renault ) were about. Think all those shiny dealerships with all those staff will be around in ten years? BMW and Mercedes are already ditching dealerships to guess what - copy Tesla in purchasing online. Just look at Taycan owners getting a bill for £1100 for their first service. The writing is on the wall for those charges.
I get the hate , I get that people don’t like Musk , some don’t like the look of them and some people don’t like change but Christ, if I have to hear or see another stupid thread about “ they are too expensive “ - “ I can’t drive to Cornwall to my second home “ and the fact for some dumb reason people seem to think charging your car at home is a nightmare so you wake up with a full tank (see what I did there ) when you can be stuck at a petrol station for 10 minutes spending a fortune each week is for some reason more enjoyable is beyond me.
Enjoy the fact you can now go and purchase a used model 3 for between £20000 and £25000 that will smash most cars with their insane acceleration, are still immensely cheap to run and have more technology than any other vehicle out there. fundamentally though,, and this is all imo. It’s going to be Tesla and the Chinese that are going to shape the future in the car industry.
Edited by Chipper on Saturday 11th March 11:46
If they did everyone would just drive a Toyota Auris.
There are almost no car enthusiasts left. And most of the few people who would call themselves an enthusiast drive a BMW, Audi or Mercedes. Which are all basically an Auris.
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