EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
Ankh87 said:
braddo said:
What?! 
That solution is ridiculously simple - connect cable to house, lay the cable in the trough, connect cable to car. Next morning, disconnect cable and put inside car or house.
Those charging cables are worth money, no-one is going to leave them out when not in use (unless they are complete idiots). Most people won't need to charge more than once per week.
There will need to be a bit of collective thinking about how to manage on-street parking and for apartment car parks. These are not problems that threaten the viability of EVs.
Also, there are hundreds of thousands of terraced houses in the UK that are worth £1m+. This is not about the poor being neglected in the EV transition...
On-street parking isn't as simple as you think it is. Everyone wants to park outside their home regardless if they have one or multiple cars. I've seen it first hand where even those who have this issue and have one car per household, there's still not enough on-street parking. Cars are having to be parked on the next street. That solution is ridiculously simple - connect cable to house, lay the cable in the trough, connect cable to car. Next morning, disconnect cable and put inside car or house.
Those charging cables are worth money, no-one is going to leave them out when not in use (unless they are complete idiots). Most people won't need to charge more than once per week.
There will need to be a bit of collective thinking about how to manage on-street parking and for apartment car parks. These are not problems that threaten the viability of EVs.
Also, there are hundreds of thousands of terraced houses in the UK that are worth £1m+. This is not about the poor being neglected in the EV transition...
When it comes to on-street parking, you'll find that people are not reasonable or rational about this at all. Even now, where there isn't really a need to be parked outside their house as they are not charging their cars. This isn't going to change in the future, if anything it's going to be far worse. Especially when cars are parked just that 2 meters further down, making all the other cars further down, meaning the cable won't reach. Or if someone goes from say a small hatchback to a big long Skoda Superb. Stupid things like that have a knock on effect.
Just like now, when I go to the in-laws if I want to be parked on their street, then I take a risk because there is no off-street parking at all. So I take the partners tiny Kia because I know that if there is a space, it's usually just big enough for that car. If I take mine then every time I go to the in-laws I have to park 2 streets away because that's where there is space. It's a complete pain.
What it comes down to is that people are selfish and really do not give a hoot.
I would like to add, that even digging up the path just to lay this cable is going to cost at least £500. That's before even paying to have the thing installed.
Ankh87 said:
On-street parking isn't as simple as you think it is.
I live in London, with only on-street parking for the past 20 years. Where I live it is not as you describe.It should be obvious that the footpath trench is just one cheap option, that will often work but not always.
Other solutions include retractable bollard charging points that disappear into the ground when not in use. With those and the ones connected to street lights, there could be a solution to use these public points but be charged on your home electricity bill (at home rates, not the current expensive rates). Someone on here recently mentioned that is possible today (costs aside) with using an Octopus Energy card to use public charging points.
It is all solvable and the nation has 15 years for it to evolve. However, leaving it to market forces would be stupid. It needs some planning.
braddo said:
It is all solvable and the nation has 15 years for it to evolve. However, leaving it to market forces would be stupid. It needs some planning.
Which is exactly my point, it needs consideration and planning.It is not an argument against EVs as some like to make out. It is simply recognising where things are heading and setting stall out to lessen bumps in the road.
The other point is that yes there are 15 year, say, for the graduated change but leaving it 10/12 years until concerted action is just stupid. But then politicians.
braddo said:
It is all solvable and the nation has 15 years for it to evolve. However, leaving it to market forces would be stupid. It needs some planning.
Planning?There's over 1.7m electric or hybrid cars in the UK and 'they' still can't set up a public charging network that is reliable.
Granted, it's early days, but if this is down to collective 'planning' then we're doomed.
braddo said:
Ankh87 said:
On-street parking isn't as simple as you think it is.
I live in London, with only on-street parking for the past 20 years. Where I live it is not as you describe.It should be obvious that the footpath trench is just one cheap option, that will often work but not always.
Other solutions include retractable bollard charging points that disappear into the ground when not in use. With those and the ones connected to street lights, there could be a solution to use these public points but be charged on your home electricity bill (at home rates, not the current expensive rates). Someone on here recently mentioned that is possible today (costs aside) with using an Octopus Energy card to use public charging points.
It is all solvable and the nation has 15 years for it to evolve. However, leaving it to market forces would be stupid. It needs some planning.
It's similar on my street. My side is the road all have off street parking. The other side of the road is hit and miss. So across the road from me if they all have one or multiple cars, there's no where for them to park without parking opposite a driveway which makes it impossible for me to get off. Factor in the street is narrow, it's basically a 1.5 cars wide. Makes it real pain for everyone getting on and off driveways.
Tony33 said:
EVs potentially solve the air quality issues but don’t resolve the congestion and streets filled with parked cars causing obstructions to emergency vehicles, recycling lorries and pavements. I believe the aim will be to dramatically reduce car usage and ownership in urban areas, which will solve some of the charging issues, reversing the mobility of labour that cheap private transport has revolutionised and putting urban streets back to their original design of workforces housed in walking distance of their work place and leisure facilities. People will move over the next 20 years or so as urban transport changes. Look at some of the case studies of car less cities and large towns.
Encourage people into Kei cars, legislate properly for e-bikes, make it more expensive to own a bloat wagon if you don't have a drive to park it on like the Japanese do. Public transport being less s
t would help too, but expecting miracles is going to disappoint.Ankh87 said:
It's similar on my street. My side is the road all have off street parking. The other side of the road is hit and miss. So across the road from me if they all have one or multiple cars, there's no where for them to park without parking opposite a driveway which makes it impossible for me to get off. Factor in the street is narrow, it's basically a 1.5 cars wide. Makes it real pain for everyone getting on and off driveways.
Relations lived in Bristol for a while, one just round the corner from this street. The cars all park on the pavement to make it wide enough to park on both sides. A massive free for all and pot luck if you can park anywhere near your home. This isn't untypical. The fact the pavements are blocked on bin days just gets overlooked. Maybe it wouldn't be a bad thing if there were less car owners in streets like these and perhaps EV charging issues may be a catalyst for change? I can't see a council approving charging for cars parked on pavements or causing obstructions?Tony33 said:
elations lived in Bristol for a while, one just round the corner from this street. The cars all park on the pavement to make it wide enough to park on both sides. A massive free for all and pot luck if you can park anywhere near your home. This isn't untypical. The fact the pavements are blocked on bin days just gets overlooked. Maybe it wouldn't be a bad thing if there were less car owners in streets like these and perhaps EV charging issues may be a catalyst for change? I can't see a council approving charging for cars parked on pavements or causing obstructions?
Well as that’s Bristol I very much doubt there’ll be anything put in place that’s going to encourage car ownership.FiF said:
monkfish1 said:
Why is it a "council" problem?
And does anyone really think councils are any part of the solution? They cant even manage and deliver the most basic of services, being short of cash, and populated mostly by incompetents.
But they are going to roll out major on street charging programs? Simply laughable.
The poster claimed there were lots of spaces on council estates. There are also lots of council owned car parks. Whose problem is it in those circumstances and why would the council not be part of any solution?And does anyone really think councils are any part of the solution? They cant even manage and deliver the most basic of services, being short of cash, and populated mostly by incompetents.
But they are going to roll out major on street charging programs? Simply laughable.
Sometimes I wonder what some people including councils use to keep their ears apart.
Forget about their competence to do so, we all know most dont have it, lets focus on why should they spend taxpayer cash providing charging points?
Im not aware of any legal obligation for them to do so?
I
Ankh87 said:
braddo said:
What?!
That solution is ridiculously simple - connect cable to house, lay the cable in the trough, connect cable to car. Next morning, disconnect cable and put inside car or house.
Those charging cables are worth money, no-one is going to leave them out when not in use (unless they are complete idiots). Most people won't need to charge more than once per week.
There will need to be a bit of collective thinking about how to manage on-street parking and for apartment car parks. These are not problems that threaten the viability of EVs.
Also, there are hundreds of thousands of terraced houses in the UK that are worth £1m+. This is not about the poor being neglected in the EV transition...
On-street parking isn't as simple as you think it is. Everyone wants to park outside their home regardless if they have one or multiple cars. I've seen it first hand where even those who have this issue and have one car per household, there's still not enough on-street parking. Cars are having to be parked on the next street. That solution is ridiculously simple - connect cable to house, lay the cable in the trough, connect cable to car. Next morning, disconnect cable and put inside car or house.
Those charging cables are worth money, no-one is going to leave them out when not in use (unless they are complete idiots). Most people won't need to charge more than once per week.
There will need to be a bit of collective thinking about how to manage on-street parking and for apartment car parks. These are not problems that threaten the viability of EVs.
Also, there are hundreds of thousands of terraced houses in the UK that are worth £1m+. This is not about the poor being neglected in the EV transition...
When it comes to on-street parking, you'll find that people are not reasonable or rational about this at all. Even now, where there isn't really a need to be parked outside their house as they are not charging their cars. This isn't going to change in the future, if anything it's going to be far worse. Especially when cars are parked just that 2 meters further down, making all the other cars further down, meaning the cable won't reach. Or if someone goes from say a small hatchback to a big long Skoda Superb. Stupid things like that have a knock on effect.
Just like now, when I go to the in-laws if I want to be parked on their street, then I take a risk because there is no off-street parking at all. So I take the partners tiny Kia because I know that if there is a space, it's usually just big enough for that car. If I take mine then every time I go to the in-laws I have to park 2 streets away because that's where there is space. It's a complete pain.
What it comes down to is that people are selfish and really do not give a hoot.
I would like to add, that even digging up the path just to lay this cable is going to cost at least £500. That's before even paying to have the thing installed.
And as for laying cable across the path, thats going to require council approval, plus a council contractor. But whos cable and trough is it? Yours? The councils? It cant be yours, you dont own the pavemrent. Why do the clouncil want to own it? No benefit to them? Indeed a massive risk when its not used properly, causes a trip and injury, or electrocution.
Sounds simple in the priciple. Not so much when it meets reality. Not going to be a solution to this particular problem
FiF said:
braddo said:
It is all solvable and the nation has 15 years for it to evolve. However, leaving it to market forces would be stupid. It needs some planning.
Which is exactly my point, it needs consideration and planning.It is not an argument against EVs as some like to make out. It is simply recognising where things are heading and setting stall out to lessen bumps in the road.
The other point is that yes there are 15 year, say, for the graduated change but leaving it 10/12 years until concerted action is just stupid. But then politicians.
So despite all the nonsense posted, without planning, the outcome wont be satisfactory.
monkfish1 said:
FiF said:
braddo said:
It is all solvable and the nation has 15 years for it to evolve. However, leaving it to market forces would be stupid. It needs some planning.
Which is exactly my point, it needs consideration and planning.It is not an argument against EVs as some like to make out. It is simply recognising where things are heading and setting stall out to lessen bumps in the road.
The other point is that yes there are 15 year, say, for the graduated change but leaving it 10/12 years until concerted action is just stupid. But then politicians.
So despite all the nonsense posted, without planning, the outcome wont be satisfactory.
Well it's an opinion one supposes.
OutInTheShed said:
The grand plan is less private cars.
There are streets I know which look like those pictures every evening, thing is, they don't look that much different in the day, when most people are out at work. There are lots of cars taking up a parking space, but rarely being used.
it is happening now, there are streets in Bristol where families are moving out for the houses to be converted to HMOs. The occupants seldom have cars and walk or get the bus to the centre. Of course the residents think it is terrible but it kind of makes sense. For years the residents commuted by car and their cars were replaced by commuters to Bristol who walked or got the bus. Having people live there who don’t need cars is what the council dream of!There are streets I know which look like those pictures every evening, thing is, they don't look that much different in the day, when most people are out at work. There are lots of cars taking up a parking space, but rarely being used.
Quite a few councils around the country are running trials with Kerbo. Here is Nottingham's example with a link to apply for free installation as part of the trial.
https://www.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/newsroom/news/t...
You'd think you could move to an allocated space approach like you can apply for a disabled space outside your house.
There is funding being made available to local authorities through the LEVI (Local Electric Vehicle Infrastructure) fund which is specifically focussed on the provision of charging for those who don't have off-street parking.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/apply-for-local-ev-inf...
https://www.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/newsroom/news/t...
You'd think you could move to an allocated space approach like you can apply for a disabled space outside your house.
There is funding being made available to local authorities through the LEVI (Local Electric Vehicle Infrastructure) fund which is specifically focussed on the provision of charging for those who don't have off-street parking.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/apply-for-local-ev-inf...
FiF said:
monkfish1 said:
FiF said:
braddo said:
It is all solvable and the nation has 15 years for it to evolve. However, leaving it to market forces would be stupid. It needs some planning.
Which is exactly my point, it needs consideration and planning.It is not an argument against EVs as some like to make out. It is simply recognising where things are heading and setting stall out to lessen bumps in the road.
The other point is that yes there are 15 year, say, for the graduated change but leaving it 10/12 years until concerted action is just stupid. But then politicians.
So despite all the nonsense posted, without planning, the outcome wont be satisfactory.
Well it's an opinion one supposes.
Theres no obligation, currently, for the council to do anything, so im unclear why people are "expecting" the councils to do anything.
If there was an obligation, so what? They cant and wont do anything anyway. Many (most?) cant meet various statutory obligations anyway. It makes zero sense to place any such burden, on organisations clearly not capable of delivering it.
Yes, i agree it needs planning. But again, so what. There is no plan, and no evidence of anyone tasked with creating one. Happy to be corrected on that of course.
Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff