EVs... no one wants them!

[plfrench]

SWoll said:

LowTread said:

Don't get the obsession with on street charging at home. Do people currently have oil refineries at home and petrol pumps in their front garden? Obviously not.

Yes, charging at home is handy, especially for higher mileages and more rural locations, but it's not essential.

Spurious argument as petrol/diesel can add 100's of miles of range in < 5 minutes, filling stations are everywhere and you'll rarely find one broken or blocked for an extended period.

5 year EV owner here that covers 10k miles per year of mostly short trips. if for some reason I couldn't home charge going forward then I'd be back in ICE in a heartbeat as would reverse two of the primary benefits (convenience, running costs) and turn them into drawbacks. I'd be gutted as think they're a great option for the kind of trips we do and prefer the driving experience.

Of course, this is also affected by where I live having only 1 choice of 100kW+ rapid charger within a 20 mile radius, and not much liking the idea spending an hour or more a week sat in a McDonalds car park..

Not disagreeing with your sentiment about convenience, but did you mean a two mile radius? 20miles gives you quite a lot of 100kW chargers:

[Merc 450]

monkfish1 said:

Did you read the post that this referred to?

Id agree, its a great car. Even thought about having one at one time.

Doesnt change the fact that buying one, hiding in a garage as in investment isnt smart. Because an investement it certainly wont be in the long term. Unless you like losing money. 20 years from now, it will be mostly worthless as the world will have moved on.

Buy one now to use. Sure, great idea. Get it done now while you can

Sorry I misread your post, I would never park a car up as an investment, I will use it wash it polish it even show it, I'm 60 next month an RAF Pensioner it will never be worth more than the 45k I paid in my lifetime

[SWoll]

Was thinking more a 20 mile round trip so worded that badly. 10% range loss in order to charge seems enough of an inconvenience.

[CheesecakeRunner]

Merc 450 said:

I'm 60 next month

Then electrification of personal transport is simply not an issue you will ever have to deal with in your life. You don’t have a dog in this fight.

[FiF]

CheesecakeRunner said:

Merc 450 said:

I'm 60 next month

Then electrification of personal transport is simply not an issue you will ever have to deal with in your life. You don’t have a dog in this fight.

Which assumes that a) no future government isn't going to significantly ramp up the sticks on ICE use to force change seeing as there is no money for carrots, and that if a) comes to pass Merc 450 just sucks up any extra expense and restrictions.

Yes it's a bit of FUD, but saying he doesn't have a dog in the fight with, one could reasonably assume, 20 years minimum of motoring ahead is just rude.

[CheesecakeRunner]

FiF said:

just rude.

I know. I’m tired of a generation of people having no regard for anyone younger than them who will actually have to live with the issues they’ve caused.

[Dave200]

M4cruiser said:

Dave200 said:

Mark V GTD said:

Dave200 said:

I took my Tesla on a fairly long trip to visit some friends yesterday evening.

Yes but its a Tesla so it does all that you said. Any other EV would be a lot more stressful!

It really wouldn't. Had the Supercharger been occupied or broken I had 3 viable high speed alternatives that would have simply been charged back to my monthly energy bill without fuss.

Dave, I'm with MarkV on this, it really would have been a different story in a Leaf 24. Try it.
Ok, so you wouldn't buy a Leaf 24 if you had regular trips like that, but most people who do local commuting, week in week out, will have a trip as you describe sometimes,

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. You buy the appropriate car for your circumstances. Using the Leaf 24 as an example is about as relevant as suggesting a Smart Car.

[FiF]

CheesecakeRunner said:

FiF said:

just rude.

I know. I’m tired of a generation of people having no regard for anyone younger than them who will actually have to live with the issues they’ve caused.

Works both ways that. I'm tired of a generation that thinks they know everything but are in many ways completely dysfunctional with little emotional resilience.

Example individuals who apply for a job knowing that it entails them performing certain functions, eg answering phones, but then refuse to do so as they only accept calls from people they know. Mid 20s even 30 year olds who need their mother to ring up and sort some issue out for their offspring, several real examples of that.

[CheesecakeRunner]

Sounds like it’s not only that generation who lacks resilience.

And don’t make assumptions about which generation I’m from.

[biggbn]

Pantomime. Oh no he didn't!! Oh yes he did!! Never any ambiguity. It seems the twain will never meet on this issue. Then again, some will adamantly never have a diesel, an auto, a triple, a hybrid. And that's cool, choice is a wonderful thing. It does always surprise me how acrimonious these discussions become and how steadfastly sure each 'side' of the 'discussion' are. Perhaps if we brought it down a little we could all learn from each other rather than chucking absolutes about from entrenched positions?

Have a wonderful day all, gbnx

[Tony33]

CheesecakeRunner said:

Merc 450 said:

I'm 60 next month

Then electrification of personal transport is simply not an issue you will ever have to deal with in your life. You don’t have a dog in this fight.

Half of all new cars are bought by 55s and over, almost a quarter by the 65s and over. The cars that are hitting the secondhand car market in the next decade or two will be highly influenced by this age group and will impact supply and price. So they do have a part to play and ignoring them as not going to impacted would be foolish for any EV strategy, whether ICE continue to exist in their lifetime or not.

[FiF]

CheesecakeRunner said:

Sounds like it’s not only that generation who lacks resilience.

And don’t make assumptions about which generation I’m from.

Don't make assumptions that I don't care about younger generations either, or the mess that the country and world is in and how we move forward. Just speaking bluntly as I find unfortunately.

[Unreal]

Lots of fingers in the ears, la la la, not listening when it comes to the social issues around electrification, demonisation of ICE, availability of second hand cars and charging.

I did have a laugh at the neat little rubber strips you can install to charge your car. Lovely bit of pavement, perfectly flat, nice and dry and clean. Nice sunny day. Most pavements people will be familiar with, even in decent areas, are in a shocking state with uneven slabs and bodged tarmac and I can just picture those little rubber strips when they're a few months old and filling up with the typical pavement mix of mud, dog piss and other assorted muck. I can really see the attraction of getting home on a wet cold night and laying your twee cable in that minging slot and likewise extracting it in the morning. Certainly puts the gross inconvenience of diesel gloves into perspective. This is before we get to the absolutely epic parking disputes that will ensue or the council 'licence fee' you'll be paying to put the thing in.

This describes where millions who currently have ICE cars live. On street charging for these people cannot be done. Let them eat cake won't cut it. At night round here the public on street charging spots are occupied overnight by ICE vehicles who have lost their normal spaces. No one polices it and quite right to. I'd like some anti social behaviour policed before resources are used to police overnight parking regulations. The council persists in installing facilities and taking a disproportionate amount of space for a minority of expensive cars which they justify under their ambition of making the town net zero which no one can recall finding on an election manifesto. Of course, there's denial at the moment and record breaking progress on filling potholes. Surely nothing to do with the imminent local elections.

I'm all right Jack. I have a drive and garages with power. An EV would be just fine for me and millions like me. I'm concerned about everyone else. It is not about poor people wanting luxuries they have never been able to have, and shouldn't expect to have. It's about removing a basic level of convenience with no way of replacing it. Car less communities and improved public transport. Do me a favour. If we're going car less, why put in charging points? As for public transport - it's already a joke and deteriorating, not improving.

[Tony33]

Unreal said:

I'm all right Jack. I have a drive and garages with power. An EV would be just fine for me and millions like me. I'm concerned about everyone else. It is not about poor people wanting luxuries they have never been able to have, and shouldn't expect to have. It's about removing a basic level of convenience with no way of replacing it. Car less communities and improved public transport. Do me a favour. If we're going car less, why put in charging points? As for public transport - it's already a joke and deteriorating, not improving.

Baby steps, council "solutions" are just a token gesture at this stage. I believe the aim will be to evolve the change to car less or much reduced car usage by steadily making it less appealing to have cars. People will move and be replaced by people who embrace active travel and public transport. Not everyone will be happy about it. Returning cities to how they were in the olden days seems to be a thing and not without support it seems.

[Ankh87]

That's all good and well trying to make things how they were before but this isn't the 60s no more. People don't just work around the corner from home or even in the same city.

Lots of people commute from one city to another which can mean in some cases a 2 bus journey that takes over an hour or 20 minutes by car.

So trying to force people to use public transport doesn't really work.

[tamore]

M4cruiser said:

Dave200 said:

Mark V GTD said:

Dave200 said:

I took my Tesla on a fairly long trip to visit some friends yesterday evening.

Yes but its a Tesla so it does all that you said. Any other EV would be a lot more stressful!

It really wouldn't. Had the Supercharger been occupied or broken I had 3 viable high speed alternatives that would have simply been charged back to my monthly energy bill without fuss.

Dave, I'm with MarkV on this, it really would have been a different story in a Leaf 24. Try it.
Ok, so you wouldn't buy a Leaf 24 if you had regular trips like that, but most people who do local commuting, week in week out, will have a trip as you describe sometimes,

in reality, you're on about me! vauxhall e-combo which in reality only gets 115 miles when it's cold and loaded up. for the trips we do to scotland or elsewhere where public charging is needed, it's worth it. even in the 2 years we've had it the charging situation has improved massively.

destination charging is the big gap now. holiday parks, hotels, etc. easy solutions to these too as you don't need huge power feeds for a few 7kW chargers.

[740EVTORQUES]

Ankh87 said:

That's all good and well trying to make things how they were before but this isn't the 60s no more. People don't just work around the corner from home or even in the same city.

Lots of people commute from one city to another which can mean in some cases a 2 bus journey that takes over an hour or 20 minutes by car.

So trying to force people to use public transport doesn't really work.

And that is something that will need to change if we are all to live in a more sustainable way.

The idea that large numbers of people should drive in individual vehicles for several hours a day just to get to and from work is a a relatively new phenomenon, and not something to try to preserve.

Imagine the positive effects on quality of life if people weren’t forced to do this?

[GT9]

FiF said:

Yes it's a bit of FUD, but saying he doesn't have a dog in the fight with, one could reasonably assume, 20 years minimum of motoring ahead is just rude.

In 450’s case though his chosen dog is called hydrogen and it’s in intensive care on life support.

If by some miracle it survives it’ll be in an electric wheelchair for the rest of its life.

[Ankh87]

740EVTORQUES said:

Ankh87 said:

That's all good and well trying to make things how they were before but this isn't the 60s no more. People don't just work around the corner from home or even in the same city.

Lots of people commute from one city to another which can mean in some cases a 2 bus journey that takes over an hour or 20 minutes by car.

So trying to force people to use public transport doesn't really work.

And that is something that will need to change if we are all to live in a more sustainable way.

The idea that large numbers of people should drive in individual vehicles for several hours a day just to get to and from work is a a relatively new phenomenon, and not something to try to preserve.

Imagine the positive effects on quality of life if people weren’t forced to do this?

It doesn't work though. Local companies are few and far between, jobs for people just aren't there. Back then there were plenty of manufacturers but now everything is make outside of the UK. Look at Tata for example. So you're asking for a utopia to which no longer exists in this century.

As for car sharing, again this doesn't really work. We do it at my work and there's only a handful if that of people that do it. People have things going on in their life that makes it near impossible. Such things as picking up kids, hobbies after work or even second jobs.

Yes it would be great for what you're asking for but since the 70s and 80s, this all changed.

Even where I live, there use to be loads of local jobs but since a certain Prime Minister closed a lot of it down, the locals all had to find jobs further away.

[Merc 450]

CheesecakeRunner said:

Merc 450 said:

I'm 60 next month

Then electrification of personal transport is simply not an issue you will ever have to deal with in your life. You don’t have a dog in this fight.

i'm not planning on dying yet