EVs... no one wants them!

[biggbn]

Unreal said:

biggbn said:

740EVTORQUES said:

Ankh87 said:

That's all good and well trying to make things how they were before but this isn't the 60s no more. People don't just work around the corner from home or even in the same city.

Lots of people commute from one city to another which can mean in some cases a 2 bus journey that takes over an hour or 20 minutes by car.

So trying to force people to use public transport doesn't really work.

And that is something that will need to change if we are all to live in a more sustainable way.

The idea that large numbers of people should drive in individual vehicles for several hours a day just to get to and from work is a a relatively new phenomenon, and not something to try to preserve.

Imagine the positive effects on quality of life if people weren’t forced to do this?

Do you car share? Genuinely interested

I actually was/am genuinely interested if the poster does...how does it workout, is it viable, what about insurance etc...(we had problems with doormen sharing cars to and from work, some insurance companies said this would incur an excess)

[Olivera]

M4cruiser said:

There are plenty of streets around here where parking is on one side only. Bit awkward for those living on the wrong side.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4003129,-1.3324369...

There's absolutely vast amounts of council built housing in the UK where the rows of houses are built perpendicular to the roads. Great for living away from a noisy road, not so good for anything EV related (communal parking).

In fact in Scotland (where I live) there are many huge towns buily entirely like this (East Kilbride, Glentlrothes, Livingston, Cumbernauld etc), so it's a significant problem for transitioning to EV ownership - the personal cable or swing arm from your own property is completely non viable.

And yes, just to pre empt the point, poorer people do frequently own cars, in fact such places are often overflowing with them and already have an insufficient number of parking spaces.

[Tony33]

Ankh87 said:

Yes it's worth trying but how can you create jobs that just aren't there? You can't just force big companies to buy land or develop a site that's not going to be beneficial

How can you make public transport better when it's all privately owner? Those companies have had decades to improve it, yet still haven't.

It will be a slow process but much like cheap private transport transformed the mobility of labour it can supposedly be undone over time as companies move their premises to where the labour force can more easily reach it and/or workers move to be closer to work.

The vision has nothing to with EVs as such, the transition creates the opportunity to make private transport less desirable for those in areas without home charging capability.

In theory public transport could be much more reliable and frequent devoid of other traffic and with a market with less alternatives.

[740EVTORQUES]

biggbn said:

Unreal said:

biggbn said:

740EVTORQUES said:

Ankh87 said:

That's all good and well trying to make things how they were before but this isn't the 60s no more. People don't just work around the corner from home or even in the same city.

Lots of people commute from one city to another which can mean in some cases a 2 bus journey that takes over an hour or 20 minutes by car.

So trying to force people to use public transport doesn't really work.

And that is something that will need to change if we are all to live in a more sustainable way.

The idea that large numbers of people should drive in individual vehicles for several hours a day just to get to and from work is a a relatively new phenomenon, and not something to try to preserve.

Imagine the positive effects on quality of life if people weren’t forced to do this?

Do you car share? Genuinely interested

I actually was/am genuinely interested if the poster does...how does it workout, is it viable, what about insurance etc...(we had problems with doormen sharing cars to and from work, some insurance companies said this would incur an excess)

Well apart from car sharing my daughter to work I don’t much, which is kind of my point. There need to be much broader changes in the way we live tk reduce the need to travel such large distances.

One paradox of EVs is that being so cheap to run. They might actually encourage people to travel more resulting in more congestion and lessening their environmental benefit.

EVs are an important step no doubt and massively better than the ICE alternatives, but there need to be other deeper changes as well.


It all sounds an affront to personal freedom and what we take for granted, but the alternatives are far worse aren’t they?

Who knows, we may look back and wonder why we didn’t make these changes sooner!

[Oliver Hardy]

Tony33 said:

Ankh87 said:

Yes it's worth trying but how can you create jobs that just aren't there? You can't just force big companies to buy land or develop a site that's not going to be beneficial

How can you make public transport better when it's all privately owner? Those companies have had decades to improve it, yet still haven't.

It will be a slow process but much like cheap private transport transformed the mobility of labour it can supposedly be undone over time as companies move their premises to where the labour force can more easily reach it and/or workers move to be closer to work.

The vision has nothing to with EVs as such, the transition creates the opportunity to make private transport less desirable for those in areas without home charging capability.

In theory public transport could be much more reliable and frequent devoid of other traffic and with a market with less alternatives.

Surely the only way to have efficient public transport is to demolish most of the industrial estates, housing estates and shopping centres and put it on public transport routes?

Everything is scattered around at the moment and apart from the city centre impossible to reach efficiently.

Went to pickup something I bought on ebay from a large housing estate built 10 years ago, tiny, cul-de-sac roads, no shops, no buses/trains, no pubs, one school

[Dave200]

FiF said:

CheesecakeRunner said:

Sounds like it’s not only that generation who lacks resilience.

And don’t make assumptions about which generation I’m from.

Don't make assumptions that I don't care about younger generations either, or the mess that the country and world is in and how we move forward. Just speaking bluntly as I find unfortunately.

Why are old people always obsessed with telling everyone how much better life was in their day? I've got news for you. Life was pretty rubbish back in the day too.

[braddo]

plfrench said:

It won't. Just found this - Nottingham Council clearly agree with you, so the whole idea is utterly, utterly pointless and a waste of cash:

"Having an EV cable channel installed does not guarantee parking outside your property as a dedicated parking bay outside the property won’t be provided as part of the trial.

This would reduce limited on-street parking capacity for residents and visitors throughout the day at locations where there are already parking pressures, and as the EV charge point would be used exclusively by one household a reserved bay is not considered appropriate."

It makes sense that they don't do guaranteed spaces as part of a small trial. Just because you can't guarantee 24/7 access to that parking space doesn't make the cable channel useless. The vast majority of people will not need to charge their cars more than once a week. Some streets it might not work for, but for millions of others it will as ONE option among MANY solutions to make EV ownership viable for people without driveways in the coming years.

Not you specifically but Jesus, some of the miserable pessimists posting on this thread

[Dave200]

braddo said:

plfrench said:

It won't. Just found this - Nottingham Council clearly agree with you, so the whole idea is utterly, utterly pointless and a waste of cash:

"Having an EV cable channel installed does not guarantee parking outside your property as a dedicated parking bay outside the property won’t be provided as part of the trial.

This would reduce limited on-street parking capacity for residents and visitors throughout the day at locations where there are already parking pressures, and as the EV charge point would be used exclusively by one household a reserved bay is not considered appropriate."

It makes sense that they don't do guaranteed spaces as part of a small trial. Just because you can't guarantee 24/7 access to that parking space doesn't make the cable channel useless. The vast majority of people will not need to charge their cars more than once a week. Some streets it might not work for, but for millions of others it will as ONE option among MANY solutions to make EV ownership viable for people without driveways in the coming years.

Not you specifically but Jesus, some of the miserable pessimists posting on this thread

It's almost like these naysayers don't want EVs to work.

[braddo]

An example of a local council planning. Lambeth borough in London. Seems pretty well thought out. Being central London they are looking to reduce car use.

https://moderngov.lambeth.gov.uk/documents/s149438...

[stargazer30]

I'm just over a month into ownership on my EV (Mini Cooper SE). I had to drive our other two ICE cars this weekend... Number 2 son's stolen car which is a totally knackered fiesta, this one has the bike racks on and I was hauling bikes, and then the missus ICE Mini Cooper as its a 5 door and I had to drop her and her mates off.

All I can say is I was glad to get back in the EV It's just nicer in every way.

[FiF]

Dave200 said:

FiF said:

CheesecakeRunner said:

Sounds like it’s not only that generation who lacks resilience.

And don’t make assumptions about which generation I’m from.

Don't make assumptions that I don't care about younger generations either, or the mess that the country and world is in and how we move forward. Just speaking bluntly as I find unfortunately.

Why are old people always obsessed with telling everyone how much better life was in their day? I've got news for you. Life was pretty rubbish back in the day too.

I've got news for you, not claimed life was better back in the day. Please point out where I did.

Things were different that's for sure, different challenges, different problems, young complaining about old uns, and vice versa. There was a claim made that the older generation had no regard for a younger generation that had to live with the problems created directly by that older generation. In time honoured fashion it was worth pointing out that there's a younger generation some of whom are making things difficult for themselves and many others right now and going into the future. It's always been the case, just the issues change.

Or maybe we're just supposed to ignore frequent antagonistic and rude bull crap just because. Actually that's not a bad idea.

[Tony33]

braddo said:

An example of a local council planning. Lambeth borough in London. Seems pretty well thought out. Being central London they are looking to reduce car use.

https://moderngov.lambeth.gov.uk/documents/s149438...

It does seem far more thought has gone into this compared to others. At least it is transparent about using the EV transition to reduce car ownership:

“For this reason, we will not promote a like for like switch from one car to another, but rather use the market disruption caused by the emergence of EVs to encourage lower levels of car ownership and use, as well as a move to more active travel and shared mobility.”

[biggbn]

740EVTORQUES said:

biggbn said:

Unreal said:

biggbn said:

740EVTORQUES said:

Ankh87 said:

That's all good and well trying to make things how they were before but this isn't the 60s no more. People don't just work around the corner from home or even in the same city.

Lots of people commute from one city to another which can mean in some cases a 2 bus journey that takes over an hour or 20 minutes by car.

So trying to force people to use public transport doesn't really work.

And that is something that will need to change if we are all to live in a more sustainable way.

The idea that large numbers of people should drive in individual vehicles for several hours a day just to get to and from work is a a relatively new phenomenon, and not something to try to preserve.

Imagine the positive effects on quality of life if people weren’t forced to do this?

Do you car share? Genuinely interested

I actually was/am genuinely interested if the poster does...how does it workout, is it viable, what about insurance etc...(we had problems with doormen sharing cars to and from work, some insurance companies said this would incur an excess)

Well apart from car sharing my daughter to work I don’t much, which is kind of my point. There need to be much broader changes in the way we live tk reduce the need to travel such large distances.

One paradox of EVs is that being so cheap to run. They might actually encourage people to travel more resulting in more congestion and lessening their environmental benefit.

EVs are an important step no doubt and massively better than the ICE alternatives, but there need to be other deeper changes as well.


It all sounds an affront to personal freedom and what we take for granted, but the alternatives are far worse aren’t they?

Who knows, we may look back and wonder why we didn’t make these changes sooner!

thanks man

[biggbn]

stargazer30 said:

I'm just over a month into ownership on my EV (Mini Cooper SE). I had to drive our other two ICE cars this weekend... Number 2 son's stolen car which is a totally knackered fiesta, this one has the bike racks on and I was hauling bikes, and then the missus ICE Mini Cooper as its a 5 door and I had to drop her and her mates off.

All I can say is I was glad to get back in the EV It's just nicer in every way.

That's what I want. But a cabrio. In that lairy green/yellow colour

[survivalist]

stargazer30 said:

I'm just over a month into ownership on my EV (Mini Cooper SE). I had to drive our other two ICE cars this weekend... Number 2 son's stolen car which is a totally knackered fiesta, this one has the bike racks on and I was hauling bikes, and then the missus ICE Mini Cooper as its a 5 door and I had to drop her and her mates off.

All I can say is I was glad to get back in the EV It's just nicer in every way.

All that says to me is that small hatchbacks are nicer when powered by an electric motor - and that’s assuming the 2 minis are the same generation model.

I drove to the gym today in a 15 year old ICE car with a manual gearbox. It was much better than the EV I own and others I have driven.

Both are compromises, but if I had to choose one it’d be ICE car. Luckily I don’t have to choose, so I just pick the best tool for the job.

[RUSTILLDOWN]

survivalist said:

stargazer30 said:

I'm just over a month into ownership on my EV (Mini Cooper SE). I had to drive our other two ICE cars this weekend... Number 2 son's stolen car which is a totally knackered fiesta, this one has the bike racks on and I was hauling bikes, and then the missus ICE Mini Cooper as its a 5 door and I had to drop her and her mates off.

All I can say is I was glad to get back in the EV It's just nicer in every way.

All that says to me is that small hatchbacks are nicer when powered by an electric motor - and that’s assuming the 2 minis are the same generation model.

I drove to the gym today in a 15 year old ICE car with a manual gearbox. It was much better than the EV I own and others I have driven.

Both are compromises, but if I had to choose one it’d be ICE car. Luckily I don’t have to choose, so I just pick the best tool for the job.

Very curious regarding the age of each stargazer car.

[Maracus]

RUSTILLDOWN said:

survivalist said:

stargazer30 said:

I'm just over a month into ownership on my EV (Mini Cooper SE). I had to drive our other two ICE cars this weekend... Number 2 son's stolen car which is a totally knackered fiesta, this one has the bike racks on and I was hauling bikes, and then the missus ICE Mini Cooper as its a 5 door and I had to drop her and her mates off.

All I can say is I was glad to get back in the EV It's just nicer in every way.

All that says to me is that small hatchbacks are nicer when powered by an electric motor - and that’s assuming the 2 minis are the same generation model.

I drove to the gym today in a 15 year old ICE car with a manual gearbox. It was much better than the EV I own and others I have driven.

Both are compromises, but if I had to choose one it’d be ICE car. Luckily I don’t have to choose, so I just pick the best tool for the job.

Very curious regarding the age of each stargazer car.

They will both be F56, latest generation.

[stargazer30]

Maracus said:

RUSTILLDOWN said:

survivalist said:

stargazer30 said:

I'm just over a month into ownership on my EV (Mini Cooper SE). I had to drive our other two ICE cars this weekend... Number 2 son's stolen car which is a totally knackered fiesta, this one has the bike racks on and I was hauling bikes, and then the missus ICE Mini Cooper as its a 5 door and I had to drop her and her mates off.

All I can say is I was glad to get back in the EV It's just nicer in every way.

All that says to me is that small hatchbacks are nicer when powered by an electric motor - and that’s assuming the 2 minis are the same generation model.

I drove to the gym today in a 15 year old ICE car with a manual gearbox. It was much better than the EV I own and others I have driven.

Both are compromises, but if I had to choose one it’d be ICE car. Luckily I don’t have to choose, so I just pick the best tool for the job.

Very curious regarding the age of each stargazer car.

They will both be F56, latest generation.

Yup the 5 door ICE mini is a F55, the new 3 door EV mini is a F56. Same type of mini the only difference other than the drive train is the 3 door/5 door chassis. Make wise, I've always preferred Fords having owned loads of ford hot hatches so Fiesta's are like coming home to me but sadly my son's fiesta is on its last legs, over 10 years old with 120K+ miles on it.

Maybe its a getting older thing, but the EV is a lazy drive. It practically drives itself, and certainly for city driving with all the start stop, lights, junctions etc.. it just takes the grind out of it and you get to enjoy the drive again. Since I got it I've been looking for excuses to drive it.

What I don't get is all the EV hate that's been spouted. The simple fact is they are a better solution than ICE to personal transport. The technology and infrastructure needs to mature more sure. Some folks need an ICE as they need long range and public charging needs to get faster and cheaper. What is plain bonkers is thinking ICE cars are a better long term solution. Its old tech which has been refined to its max but by its nature the design has many compromises, complexities and inefficiencies. Even then that's ignoring the dinosaur in the room (pun intended), that electricity can be generated but oil is going to run out at some point and well before that its going to get very expensive.

[Tony33]

stargazer30 said:

What I don't get is all the EV hate that's been spouted. The simple fact is they are a better solution than ICE to personal transport.

I firmly believe EVs are the future for keeping private transport an option. Albeit the availability of private transport will shrink with EV charging availability the catalyst for change (read the Lambeth EV strategy which literally states this).

That said it is statements like "fact is they are a better solution than ICE to personal transport" that riles people (like me) that prefer the driving experience of ICE cars as of now. There are also currently scenarios - on street charging, range etc. where EVs are not the best choice. This is well known and in the case of on street charging likely not to be a simple swap of existing ICE for EVs going forward.

I prefer the combination of an ICE auto for easy urban driving and when the opportunity arises for a bit of enjoyment, my experience with EVs is the lack of an engine deters from that experience. It isn't the end of the world and when the time comes I will charge an EV on my drive and have no issues but for now it isn't a "better solution". Others would insist the auto aspect is anathema to driving engagement and a manual is a must, it takes all sorts. 0-60 times and bhp become somewhat irrelevant after a tipping point IMHO to what we consider as enjoyment or sportiness.

For some time we will have a mix of ICE and EVs and the better solution will vary depending upon personal circumstance and choice.

[KingGary]

stargazer30 said:

Fiesta's are like coming home to me but sadly my son's fiesta is on its last legs, over 10 years old with 120K+ miles on it.

I think that comes down to maintenance rather than the Fiesta being a bad car. My daughter’s is a 2008 so older, but it’s serviced every year and there’s nothing wrong with it.