EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
Unreal said:
Muzzer79 said:
Wills2 said:
The reality is "not everyone wants them!" rather than no one
Amen to that.Wills2 said:
currently around 85% of new car buyers don't want them and the vast majority of the 15% that do are being incentivised to want them, if the government were serious about making everyone want them (they should be) they would offer the same incentives to everyone (in equivalence)
But those rubbishing EVs on this thread are not doing so for the lack of financial incentives.We're being told that it's to do with range, speed of charging, lack of suitability for their lifestyle.
Logic therefore dictates that they would always argue that EVs aren't suitable, no matter the incentives.
Numerous people, including myself, have posted how they would be happy to replace an ICE vehicle with an EV but they don't want to pay tens of thousands or sign up to a monthly lease to do that. The single thing that will dramatically change the landscape is the availability of second hand EVs that are priced at a level that makes giving up the old reliable ICE vehicle a no brainer.
Whilst depreciation on EVs will help, that supply is going to be limited if the new cars are perceived to be too expensive and have have too many shortcomings. 15% filtering down isn't going to lead to replacement. There won't be enough cars to replace the old ICE vehicles which if anything will help to maintain values.
What would transform the market and turbocharge uptake is the availability of cheap EVS and if the cars aren't that cheap, take all the incentives away from the wealthier segment of society and spread it around the lowest levels.
True there are a few posters, possibly more accounts than individuals that who are saying never in their lifetime. But as I see things by far the majority are very happy to move to EV at a suitable time but not yet based on many reasons, examples being there isn't a suitable sensibly priced EV yet which meets their practical needs, eg decent sized estate, or they haven't yet got the requirement to change and aren't going to go shopping for largely the sake of it, again note the word yet.
I would disagree that 15% new sales isn't going to lead to fleet replacement. Clearly it will, eventually, not sure what % of current ICE fleet reaches end of life annually, if average life is say 15 years what % does that lead to? Not 15% anyway. Will it be within the time frame laid out by govt?
Personally looking at an EV estate pre reg, delivery miles, reduced 46 to 32k. Nothing available truly used or ex demo yet. Unfortunately my head has been turned by a PHEV, similar 10k reduction and this one doesn't have the CEO of their group stamping foot and saying unless Govt incentives step up going to withdraw the brand from the market which would be a pisser. Overall problem is I don't actually need to change yet so it would potentially be shopping for the sake of it.
Reprise on something mentioned a while back, a bit of a rant by Matt Prior in Autocar. Link wasn't available earlier but there's one now. Scroll past his bit about led headlights and you get to the comment on SMMT request to halve VAT.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/opinion/new-cars/could-r...
braddo said:
Boxster5 said:
I don’t buy the so called “industry experts” saying we’re well equipped for the migration - there is no long term planning in the UK and we’re effectively sleep walking to disaster. We need investment in nuclear yesterday.
Are you an industry expert in nuclear?Sounds like you know your stuff. Did you vote for Brexit too?
A large number of current nuclear reactors are coming to the end of their lives in the next decade or so with Dungeness B, Hunterston B & Hinckley Point B already being decommissioned.
We have a proposed Sizewell C and Hinckley Point C is under construction but that’s it really with nothing else in the pipeline - bear in mind these projects can take decades to come to fruition.
I don’t like nuclear but if we’re moving away from oil & gas and renewables can’t provide 100% of our needs, then I can’t see an alternative.
And finally I most certainly did NOT vote for Brexit (but that’s a whole other box of frogs!)
Fastdruid said:
12000 miles/year is roughly 10000 more than I'd put on it. 
Roughly 26p/mile in depreciation alone and I'd only be saving 27p/mi in fuel. Add the 3p/mile (assuming 10p/kWh and 3.3 Mi/kWh) and it's costing 29p to save 27p.
Obviously then have all the other costs of running a second vehicle (mot & insurance).
Not sure about your depreciation per mile. There's the savings of 720+ gallons of fuel v overnight charging. Pretty certain he was getting more than 3.3 mi/kwh but I'll ask again at the pub Thursday. Having passengered in it, it was a perfectly comfortable, quiet and civilised ride. Much nicer than his Golf R, in which he always has to pay the hooligan. Roughly 26p/mile in depreciation alone and I'd only be saving 27p/mi in fuel. Add the 3p/mile (assuming 10p/kWh and 3.3 Mi/kWh) and it's costing 29p to save 27p.
Obviously then have all the other costs of running a second vehicle (mot & insurance).
Edited by Fastdruid on Tuesday 30th April 17:15
. Plus nobody broke into his house for the keys to the Leaf.
heebeegeetee said:
Not sure about your depreciation per mile. There's the savings of 720+ gallons of fuel v overnight charging. Pretty certain he was getting more than 3.3 mi/kwh but I'll ask again at the pub Thursday. Having passengered in it, it was a perfectly comfortable, quiet and civilised ride. Much nicer than his Golf R, in which he always has to pay the hooligan. .
Plus nobody broke into his house for the keys to the Leaf.
This time of year you should be getting 4-4.5m/KW on a leaf unless you're constantly on a motorway at 70mph.. Plus nobody broke into his house for the keys to the Leaf.
GeneralBanter said:
sunnyb13 said:
Someone talk me out of a used kona electric. They seem such good value for money
The batteries. They cost a fortune when they fail. GeneralBanter said:
sunnyb13 said:
Someone talk me out of a used kona electric. They seem such good value for money
The batteries. They cost a fortune when they fail. So buy a 3 year old one and keep it 4 years then take a view.
The thing which really annoys me is that the (early) UK ones AFAIK are not rated for towing, while the same model (LHD obviously) sold in Denmark is.
Fastdruid said:
heebeegeetee said:
Fastdruid said:
I would totally have an EV for local use in addition to my current ICE *IF* it was cheaper to run two cars rather than one. It's not unless we get down to really cheap EV's (which tbf I'm hopeful of) rather than a 12 year old Leaf being so stupidly expensive that it'll never pay for itself.
Don't know if it helps but a few years back a mate bought a 2 yr old Nissan Leaf for £10k, kept it 3 yrs / 36k miles then sold it for for £8.4k. That 36k required no fuel and effectively no servicing. It also meant the 36k miles wasn't put on his other cars.
I don't know if similar reliable Leafs or EVs can be had for £1600 over 3 years.
Roughly 26p/mile in depreciation alone and I'd only be saving 27p/mi in fuel. Add the 3p/mile (assuming 10p/kWh and 3.3 Mi/kWh) and it's costing 29p to save 27p.
Obviously then have all the other costs of running a second vehicle (mot & insurance).
Edited by Fastdruid on Tuesday 30th April 17:15
I have two mates with Leaves.
First one, bought for about £6k four years ago.
Used intensely for 3 years, typically 60 miles a day. Saving about £1500 a year in diesel.
So now it's worth buttons but who cares?
Second one bbught for about £8k 18 months ago, done about 6k miles, now might be worth £4k?
Not so good, but it replaced a car rather than being an extra car, so not so bad either.
sunnyb13 said:
Someone talk me out of a used kona electric. They seem such good value for money
From my personal point of view:- Bit small, so more 'Fiesta' sized than they sometimes appear
- Not sure on the specifics, but they require the battery coolant fluid changing (poss. 40k?) at around £500 p+l
- Based on the ICE platform, so still very much an ICE with an EV powertrain (may suit some, but feels a bit old compared to EV-orientated stuff like the ID.3 and Born, Model 3/Y, MG5)
Bear in mind that you can get quite a lot for under £20k these days, so there's actually not a lot in it between the purchase price of an MG/Hyundai/Kia and slightly more used Tesla/Jag/Polestar. There's something for everyone out there, but I specifically wanted to avoid legacy carmarkers who want to charge you as much and as often as the servicing on an ICE
GeneralBanter said:
Article is based 100% on referencing https://cleantechnica.com/2024/04/11/unsold-chines... which then is based 100% on https://jalopnik.com/tesla-settles-fatal-autopilot... which is based totally on a FT article, which is based heavily on the quote:one car supply chain manager said:
“Chinese EV makers are using ports like car parks,” said one car supply chain manager.
So Ports are busy, claims "one car supply chain manager"
romft123 said:
sunnyb13 said:
Someone talk me out of a used kona electric. They seem such good value for money
early ones are too smallLanes are narrow around here, parking iis often tight.
I do sometimes carry passngers who are full size adults though, and don't like low headroom.
I don't need so much interior space if I can have a trailer....
740EVTORQUES said:
GeneralBanter said:
sunnyb13 said:
Someone talk me out of a used kona electric. They seem such good value for money
The batteries. They cost a fortune when they fail. All for EVs for the right use case, but this kind of rose tinted nonsense just leaves people disappointed when they actually try one.
cj2013 said:
GeneralBanter said:
Article is based 100% on referencing https://cleantechnica.com/2024/04/11/unsold-chines... which then is based 100% on https://jalopnik.com/tesla-settles-fatal-autopilot... which is based totally on a FT article, which is based heavily on the quote:one car supply chain manager said:
“Chinese EV makers are using ports like car parks,” said one car supply chain manager.
So Ports are busy, claims "one car supply chain manager"
BricktopST205 said:
Yes but you made the presumption that an EV has the same lifespan as an ICE which it really doesn't.
I would say that at 150,000 miles, most petrol cars are starting to get a bit leggy and are fully depreciated. I sold my Range Rover at 150,000 miles (all driven by me) for £5k, I paid around £90k for it when new. That was the market.A Tesla's battery should last 1,500 cycles largely because of complex battery management which most batteries that we use (phones, laptops etc) don't have. That puts it's potential lifetime range at 500,000 miles. Let's assume it only does 650 cycles, that's nearly 200,000 miles. This sets aside the massive fuel and servicing savings over 200,000 miles in an ICE.
I'd be happy to scrap the car at that mileage.
cj2013 said:
GeneralBanter said:
Article is based 100% on referencing https://cleantechnica.com/2024/04/11/unsold-chines... which then is based 100% on https://jalopnik.com/tesla-settles-fatal-autopilot... which is based totally on a FT article, which is based heavily on the quote:one car supply chain manager said:
“Chinese EV makers are using ports like car parks,” said one car supply chain manager.
So Ports are busy, claims "one car supply chain manager"
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