EVs... no one wants them!

[_Hoppers]

T_S_M said:

My point is, don't buy a BMW

Mine has got 85k on it and has been great. I'm surprised at the gearbox failure, the ZF units, I understand, are pretty bullet proof!

[T_S_M]

_Hoppers said:

T_S_M said:

My point is, don't buy a BMW

Mine has got 85k on it and has been great. I'm surprised at the gearbox failure, the ZF units, I understand, are pretty bullet proof!

Yeah I was joking really, I've had many BMW's and in general they've all been fine.

Major failures can happen on any car though, irrelevant of how they're powered. Yes a battery may fail, but how much is a new engine if that fails?

[Ankh87]

T_S_M said:

Yeah I was joking really, I've had many BMW's and in general they've all been fine.

Major failures can happen on any car though, irrelevant of how they're powered. Yes a battery may fail, but how much is a new engine if that fails?

I guess with an engine though that's going to be a big bill regardless of car. Also most places can replace an engine, it's just if they want to do it.
With a heater, yes you'd expect it to be maybe £1000 tops. That is still a ridiculous amount. That's the difference as something so small shouldn't be costing more than the car itself.

[Tony33]

CheesecakeRunner said:

Tony33 said:

check out the Buzz, £60k+ for something that looks like it was from the 60s!

That's the whole fking point of it.

The next sentence explained it was a joke for the literal thinking…

[Dave200]

_Hoppers said:

trumpton7291 said:

I see batteries are not the only expensive part of EV ownership...

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2024/apr/17/rena...

£11k... ouch!

I've been eyeing up a Model 3 Tesla, but after reading this I think I might go for a Ford with a wet belt Eco Boost engine?!

I'd get a big Audi estate with an engine so powerful and packaging so poorly designed that the entire unit needs to be removed to do a cambelt/chain service at a cost of thousands of pounds. That's progress.

[Tony33]

Dave200 said:

Tony33 said:

heck out the Buzz, £60k+ for something that looks like it was from the 60s! Joking aside the current crop of EV SUVs all look so anonymous and dull that something resembling a car will appeal to some potential customers.

Cars, especially EVs have massively inflated RRPs right now. Once breaking the “luxury” tax bracket it seems almost an arbitrary figure.

So your point is mostly that new cars look anonymous and are too expensive?

No, just that the lease deals are dominated by EV SUVs that are great deals because they have RRPs that no one is likely to consider. So the cost of leasing for a few years compared to RRP is very favourable.

[123DWA]

trumpton7291 said:

I see batteries are not the only expensive part of EV ownership...

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2024/apr/17/rena...

£11k... ouch!

It says Renault want to replace the whole A/C system comprising of 30-odd parts, I wonder how many of those parts have actually failed and need replacing and how many of those are just 'recommended'.

I'm sure we've all read the countless stories on here of a main dealer quoting 4 figures for a repair, only for the owner to fix the issue with an 85p washer or similar.

[otolith]

Lots of toucans here;

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[stevemcs]

123DWA said:

It says Renault want to replace the whole A/C system comprising of 30-odd parts, I wonder how many of those parts have actually failed and need replacing and how many of those are just 'recommended'.

I'm sure we've all read the countless stories on here of a main dealer quoting 4 figures for a repair, only for the owner to fix the issue with an 85p washer or similar.

Its more about where the metal parts get to, realstically some bits you would replace, other parts such as pipes wash out. ITs just time consuming

[yellowbentines]

CheesecakeRunner said:

Tony33 said:

check out the Buzz, £60k+ for something that looks like it was from the 60s!

That's the whole fking point of it.

I think they look fantastic, but BEV doesn't work for me for several reasons - do it in PHEV and I'd seriously consider one.

My car change in 12 months will probably be dictated by which manufacturers are offering a PHEV powertrain, since diesel is gone or going and EV doesn't work for me, rather than what I actually want.

[cj2013]

trumpton7291 said:

I see batteries are not the only expensive part of EV ownership...

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2024/apr/17/rena...

£11k... ouch!

Read that before, and it sounded like the typical consumer "I ignored it until I couldn't".

Obvious problem was obvious, so they didn't push for it to be fixed until it was out of warranty - and didn't chase it up within warranty to be sure it was documented.


Long story short - not to be too harsh to the naive/ignorant folks involved - but the bill exists because they didn't put enough effort into getting it done earlier. Not defending the dealer, but you do have to own your own issues to get them resolved.

[M4cruiser]

It's stories like these that make me want to go back to a 10-year old Corolla.

[DT1975]

cj2013 said:

Read that before, and it sounded like the typical consumer "I ignored it until I couldn't".

Obvious problem was obvious, so they didn't push for it to be fixed until it was out of warranty - and didn't chase it up within warranty to be sure it was documented.


Long story short - not to be too harsh to the naive/ignorant folks involved - but the bill exists because they didn't put enough effort into getting it done earlier. Not defending the dealer, but you do have to own your own issues to get them resolved.

Yes they should have persisted early on. They also probably regret not extending the manufacturers warranty. Having a quick look its £300 a year from Renault and seems a no brainer. This on the Zoe forum on speak EV

"Warranty just paid out on a faulty heater on my extended warranty R110."

[Dave200]

cj2013 said:

trumpton7291 said:

I see batteries are not the only expensive part of EV ownership...

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2024/apr/17/rena...

£11k... ouch!

Read that before, and it sounded like the typical consumer "I ignored it until I couldn't".

Obvious problem was obvious, so they didn't push for it to be fixed until it was out of warranty - and didn't chase it up within warranty to be sure it was documented.


Long story short - not to be too harsh to the naive/ignorant folks involved - but the bill exists because they didn't put enough effort into getting it done earlier. Not defending the dealer, but you do have to own your own issues to get them resolved.

Indeed. Anyone holding up the results of fecklessness as some kind of indictment of EVs is really clutching at straws. A bit like if I were sharing the cost of a new engine for the ice owner who drove 20 miles with their oil light on as a criticism of ice cars.

[740EVTORQUES]

This is 100% user error. Leaving an intermittent fault for a year is just crazy, did they think the car might heal itself in the meantime or something?

Now cooling problems are potentially more expensive to fix in an EV since the system is shared with the battery cooling and so there are more places to shower metal if your compressor explodes and so more labour mainly. But as pointed out it’s similar to driving on with a low oil warning on an ICE engine because the engine ‘seemed to still work’.

A better title for that article would be ‘car drivers stupidity costs them dearly.’

[heebeegeetee]

I'm going to say not really fair on the Zoe owner. Intermittent faults can be difficult to repair, as the fault is almost guaranteed not to be present when the car is in the shop.

Getting an intermittent fault repaired under warranty is harder still. Main dealers are major pains in the ass, they are very adept at screwing the customer.

I used to work in the trade, I had a strong connection to Mercedes-Benz, I used to hear the stories from customers, M-B are absolutely shameless when it comes to all the tricks, they literally have no shame, and they are very good at ensuring the customer does not get to speak to the person who could put things right afterwards. I even had to use the small claims service over a stupid dispute over my parts bill in which they were clearly in the wrong. They are totally shameless. (Other than that, a head office issue, Merc were otherwise of great support to me, particularly the parts department at my local main dealer).

Reports from customers came from Middlesborough to Brussels and all points in between. Both my Middlesborough and Brussels customers ensured their cars came to us in Birmingham for service or repair.

[Unreal]

I was thinking about the issues around EV uptake in terms of transitioning people from diesel and to a lesser extent petrol to EV.

I wonder if one way to help this would be to shift all the benefits and incentives to the opposite end of the market with generous scrappage schemes and discounts for people with cheap old ICE cars. Those company directors don't need the money and aren't as numerous as the poorer members of society. Those poorer people get into newer, more reliable and environmentally friendly vehicles which are much cheaper to run and rich people can afford the EVs without subsidies anyway. Couple that with building the EV equivalent of the people's car and job done.

[tamore]

Unreal said:

I was thinking about the issues around EV uptake in terms of transitioning people from diesel and to a lesser extent petrol to EV.

I wonder if one way to help this would be to shift all the benefits and incentives to the opposite end of the market with generous scrappage schemes and discounts for people with cheap old ICE cars. Those company directors don't need the money and aren't as numerous as the poorer members of society. Those poorer people get into newer, more reliable and environmentally friendly vehicles which are much cheaper to run and rich people can afford the EVs without subsidies anyway. Couple that with building the EV equivalent of the people's car and job done.

need more affordable models before you can do that. RRP, not the 100 or so heavily discounted models on AT. before someone pipes up.

they are coming in the next 12 months. hope the article i saw yesterday about tesla pressing on with the model 2 at $25k is right.

[Unreal]

tamore said:

Unreal said:

I was thinking about the issues around EV uptake in terms of transitioning people from diesel and to a lesser extent petrol to EV.

I wonder if one way to help this would be to shift all the benefits and incentives to the opposite end of the market with generous scrappage schemes and discounts for people with cheap old ICE cars. Those company directors don't need the money and aren't as numerous as the poorer members of society. Those poorer people get into newer, more reliable and environmentally friendly vehicles which are much cheaper to run and rich people can afford the EVs without subsidies anyway. Couple that with building the EV equivalent of the people's car and job done.

need more affordable models before you can do that. RRP, not the 100 or so heavily discounted models on AT. before someone pipes up.

they are coming in the next 12 months. hope the article i saw yesterday about tesla pressing on with the model 2 at $25k is right.

Yes, hence the people's car reference. Maybe Labour would do it, given their stated green credentials.

[Oilchange]

Dave200 said:

cj2013 said:

trumpton7291 said:

I see batteries are not the only expensive part of EV ownership...

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2024/apr/17/rena...

£11k... ouch!

Read that before, and it sounded like the typical consumer "I ignored it until I couldn't".

Obvious problem was obvious, so they didn't push for it to be fixed until it was out of warranty - and didn't chase it up within warranty to be sure it was documented.


Long story short - not to be too harsh to the naive/ignorant folks involved - but the bill exists because they didn't put enough effort into getting it done earlier. Not defending the dealer, but you do have to own your own issues to get them resolved.

Indeed. Anyone holding up the results of fecklessness as some kind of indictment of EVs is really clutching at straws. A bit like if I were sharing the cost of a new engine for the ice owner who drove 20 miles with their oil light on as a criticism of ice cars.

I don’t think it’s indicative of an electric car specifically but a bill of 11k to fix a heater on any car, wether you leave it until it’s ‘too late’ or not, is grossly exorbitant and frankly taking the piss.
It’s only a heater and they shouldn’t cost that much.