EVs... no one wants them!

[biggbn]

I can't believe so many people have rushed out and bought one of these new fangled four wheeled automatons. It's so ridiculous. No character, no personality, they're never gonna have a bond with them. Soulless, pointless, characterless. I'm keeping my horse and cart...

[Essarell]

biggbn said:

I can't believe so many people have rushed out and bought one of these new fangled four wheeled automatons. It's so ridiculous. No character, no personality, they're never gonna have a bond with them. Soulless, pointless, characterless. I'm keeping my horse and cart...

You don’t find the lack of blacksmiths an inconvenience? Our local one closed down 40years ago……..
Having said that refueling is easier and when it finally gives up and heads to that big stable in the sky you can eat it…..proper sustainability right there…..

[biggbn]

Essarell said:

biggbn said:

I can't believe so many people have rushed out and bought one of these new fangled four wheeled automatons. It's so ridiculous. No character, no personality, they're never gonna have a bond with them. Soulless, pointless, characterless. I'm keeping my horse and cart...

You don’t find the lack of blacksmiths an inconvenience? Our local one closed down 40years ago……..
Having said that refueling is easier and when it finally gives up and heads to that big stable in the sky you can eat it…..proper sustainability right there…..

[nickfrog]

You guys crack me up!

[740EVTORQUES]

A Tesla model S on its original battery, 12% degradation after 360,000 miles!

I thought they were all going to wear out after 5 years?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/285808764752?mkcid=16&a...

Edited by 740EVTORQUES on Friday 19th April 18:13

[tamore]

740EVTORQUES said:

A Tesla model S on its original battery, 12% degradation after 170,000 miles!

I thought they were all going to wear out after 5 years?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/285808764752?mkcid=16&a...

and that's old school tech relatively now.

[740EVTORQUES]

Apologies

360,000 miles not 170,000!

[AstonZagato]

Chasing Potatoes said:

BlackTank said:

I wish the EV supporters who have made a type of propulsion their identity would just stop with the nonsense that EVs are exciting, engaging, thrilling to drive. They are not which is why Hyundai is trying hard to figure out how to make the Ioniq 5 N drive more like an ICE.

Let's discuss the ease of use, driving simplicity and economics of EVs - don't try to bullst driving enthusiasts on a driving enthusiasts website. It destroys any credibility and harms the discussion on EVs.

I wish that people would stop thinking that only by driving an ICE could you possibly be a driving enthusiast. They’re different, and some people prefer that point of difference.

You’re not better than someone because of your car.

I have said this a few times but I think it would help the debate if people thought of EV and ICE as being completely different types of transport. I own a 6.0l V12, an EV and a PHEV. The EV is almost, in my mind, as different from the V12 as a motorcycle is from a car, or a horse versus a bicycle. They each get you from A to B but do so in very different ways. They each have pros and cons.

[Tony33]

AstonZagato said:

I have said this a few times but I think it would help the debate if people thought of EV and ICE as being completely different types of transport. I own a 6.0l V12, an EV and a PHEV. The EV is almost, in my mind, as different from the V12 as a motorcycle is from a car, or a horse versus a bicycle. They each get you from A to B but do so in very different ways. They each have pros and cons.

Personally I think lumping ICE together and EVs together causes far more perception issues. A 6 litre V12 doesn’t drive like a Dacia Duster, a Taycan drives nothing like a GWM Ora. There are plenty of EVs that are better driver cars than many dull boring ICE of which there are many.

For the vast majority of drivers the driving experience difference between similar vehicles will scarcely be noticeable.

[cj2013]

740EVTORQUES said:

A Tesla model S on its original battery, 12% degradation after 360,000 miles!

I thought they were all going to wear out after 5 years?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/285808764752?mkcid=16&a...

Edited by 740EVTORQUES on Friday 19th April 18:13

200k Model 3 Performance.

Cost to service and maintain over 200k? £800

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xWLl-M3PvE

[monkfish1]

Tony33 said:

AstonZagato said:

I have said this a few times but I think it would help the debate if people thought of EV and ICE as being completely different types of transport. I own a 6.0l V12, an EV and a PHEV. The EV is almost, in my mind, as different from the V12 as a motorcycle is from a car, or a horse versus a bicycle. They each get you from A to B but do so in very different ways. They each have pros and cons.

Personally I think lumping ICE together and EVs together causes far more perception issues. A 6 litre V12 doesn’t drive like a Dacia Duster, a Taycan drives nothing like a GWM Ora. There are plenty of EVs that are better driver cars than many dull boring ICE of which there are many.

For the vast majority of drivers the driving experience difference between similar vehicles will scarcely be noticeable.

Rubbish. It is completely different.

To refer back to an earlier post, what you are saying is a Ferrari Testarosa in ICE form and converted to Electric, the difference would be scarecely noticable.

Right, OK!!!!

[Tony33]

monkfish1 said:

Tony33 said:

AstonZagato said:

I have said this a few times but I think it would help the debate if people thought of EV and ICE as being completely different types of transport. I own a 6.0l V12, an EV and a PHEV. The EV is almost, in my mind, as different from the V12 as a motorcycle is from a car, or a horse versus a bicycle. They each get you from A to B but do so in very different ways. They each have pros and cons.

Personally I think lumping ICE together and EVs together causes far more perception issues. A 6 litre V12 doesn’t drive like a Dacia Duster, a Taycan drives nothing like a GWM Ora. There are plenty of EVs that are better driver cars than many dull boring ICE of which there are many.

For the vast majority of drivers the driving experience difference between similar vehicles will scarcely be noticeable.

Rubbish. It is completely different.

To refer back to an earlier post, what you are saying is a Ferrari Testarosa in ICE form and converted to Electric, the difference would be scarecely noticable.

Right, OK!!!!

That definitely is not what I am saying. For enthusiasts the differences are clear but for run of the mill SUVs and Crossovers the typical driver probably won’t notice much difference, a lot have no idea which wheels are being driven.

I had a Golf R that was faster than a Testarossa, both ICE but the diving experience was vastly different and shows what a difference an engine makes!

We currently have an A4 Avant and an M240i. The A4 engine is so muted and devoid of character even in its sportiest setting that it could be replaced with an electric motor as the engine adds little if anything to the experience. The B58 in the BMW is a completely different experience, the engine adds so much.

[stevemcs]

cj2013 said:

200k Model 3 Performance.

Cost to service and maintain over 200k? £800

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xWLl-M3PvE

To me that sums up ev owners do not service there cars.

[Chasing Potatoes]

Or their cars.

[survivalist]

Tony33 said:

monkfish1 said:

Tony33 said:

AstonZagato said:

I have said this a few times but I think it would help the debate if people thought of EV and ICE as being completely different types of transport. I own a 6.0l V12, an EV and a PHEV. The EV is almost, in my mind, as different from the V12 as a motorcycle is from a car, or a horse versus a bicycle. They each get you from A to B but do so in very different ways. They each have pros and cons.

Personally I think lumping ICE together and EVs together causes far more perception issues. A 6 litre V12 doesn’t drive like a Dacia Duster, a Taycan drives nothing like a GWM Ora. There are plenty of EVs that are better driver cars than many dull boring ICE of which there are many.

For the vast majority of drivers the driving experience difference between similar vehicles will scarcely be noticeable.

Rubbish. It is completely different.

To refer back to an earlier post, what you are saying is a Ferrari Testarosa in ICE form and converted to Electric, the difference would be scarecely noticable.

Right, OK!!!!

That definitely is not what I am saying. For enthusiasts the differences are clear but for run of the mill SUVs and Crossovers the typical driver probably won’t notice much difference, a lot have no idea which wheels are being driven.

I had a Golf R that was faster than a Testarossa, both ICE but the diving experience was vastly different and shows what a difference an engine makes!

We currently have an A4 Avant and an M240i. The A4 engine is so muted and devoid of character even in its sportiest setting that it could be replaced with an electric motor as the engine adds little if anything to the experience. The B58 in the BMW is a completely different experience, the engine adds so much.

Exactly this.

On a recent trip to Spain I ended up with a rented Peugeot 3008. Range ( and maybe price) aside, there is absolutely nothing about this car that wouldn’t be better as an EV.

It makes sense to start with the bland stuff with EV, because no one is buying that stuff for fun motoring - it’s cost effective transport.

Edited by survivalist on Friday 19th April 21:38

[otolith]

stevemcs said:

To me that sums up ev owners do not service there cars.

The servicing requirements are much lower than ICE cars. Though I’m sure a main dealer would be delighted to charge you to look at it any time you like.

[740EVTORQUES]

otolith said:

stevemcs said:

To me that sums up ev owners do not service there cars.

The servicing requirements are much lower than ICE cars. Though I’m sure a main dealer would be delighted to charge you to look at it any time you like.

My car needs brake fluid after 2 years.

That’s it.

That’s likely to be around £150 for 35,000 miles.

Compare that to an equivalently powerful ICE car such as an RS6 or M5..,

[Fastdruid]

Not directly related but I was reading an article that the average age of cars in the UK has risen from under 8 years old to over 9 as a combination of production delays and cost of living has meant people have put off buying new cars.

Newer cars being having risen massively in price generally hasn't helped and really that's the only thing that makes the even more expensive EVs seem reasonably priced.

[Zero Fuchs]

Fastdruid said:

Not directly related but I was reading an article that the average age of cars in the UK has risen from under 8 years old to over 9 as a combination of production delays and cost of living has meant people have put off buying new cars.

Newer cars being having risen massively in price generally hasn't helped and really that's the only thing that makes the even more expensive EVs seem reasonably priced.

I think it's related. It's easy to say that nobody wants EVs but conveniently ignoring that cars in general aren't selling due to what you've mentioned and other things like interest rates etc.

I watched a YouTube video yesterday and a Honda Jazz is now ~£30k. A half decent Picanto is £17k and a Duster isn't the bargain it once was. There's no wonder people are buying fewer cars.

[va1o]

Zero Fuchs said:

Fastdruid said:

Not directly related but I was reading an article that the average age of cars in the UK has risen from under 8 years old to over 9 as a combination of production delays and cost of living has meant people have put off buying new cars.

Newer cars being having risen massively in price generally hasn't helped and really that's the only thing that makes the even more expensive EVs seem reasonably priced.

I think it's related. It's easy to say that nobody wants EVs but conveniently ignoring that cars in general aren't selling due to what you've mentioned and other things like interest rates etc.

I watched a YouTube video yesterday and a Honda Jazz is now ~£30k. A half decent Picanto is £17k and a Duster isn't the bargain it once was. There's no wonder people are buying fewer cars.

Also ICE cars are ageing much slower these days, perhaps because most manufacturer's R&D effort is going into EVs. There is arguably little difference between a 2014 ICE car from 10-years ago compared to what is on sale now and consumers aren't blind to that, hence even less incentive to change.