EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
greenarrow said:
Genuine question, with the Ford Fiesta and Ford Focus now history, does ANYONE produce an ICE hatch with decent control weights, steering, ride, handling? I can't think of a single bread and butter hatch that delivers, as, say the old bread and butter 306s and Mk1 Focus' did back in the day....is the Golf the best of a bad bunch?
Love this place, someone posts up the above asking about a "bread and butter hatch that delivers" and 2 replies are a Focus ST and a Yaris GR, both hardly "bread and butter"!What about a Clio OP?
stevemcs said:
But the top of the range focus against the bottom of the range model 3 that they don’t even fit all of the basic parts too. The Focus will still be worth something in 3 years, the Tesla probably 15k.
A quick look on autotrader shows asking prices for a three year old ST and a three year old Model 3 are the same. charltjr said:
stevemcs said:
But the top of the range focus against the bottom of the range model 3 that they don’t even fit all of the basic parts too. The Focus will still be worth something in 3 years, the Tesla probably 15k.
A quick look on autotrader shows asking prices for a three year old ST and a three year old Model 3 are the same. 
Green Hammer said:
These are the weaker players but it would be a mistake to assume the big manufacturers are immune by virtue of size alone. A rethink is already taking place. Ford is considering partnerships with General Motors after warning that some battery-operated models have become unprofitable because of spiralling raw material prices.
Rental giant Hertz has blamed high repair costs for a decision to dump 20,000 electric vehicles. Others are tentatively pulling back. Yet, the bigger picture is still one in which the industry goliaths have set aside billions to build entirely new line-ups from scratch.
So given the above, it seems that the EV market is probably on the cusp of a major reckoning that will claim some serious industry scalps. I do wonder which of our favourite European car manufacturers will still be standing by 2035. Or, maybe the Chinese will just buy them?
This is why I'd stick with a major brand just now, you really don't know how long the minority players will be here. Spare parts have to be doubtful in a few years time. Someone near me has an Ora, and it may well look good on the paper specs (I haven't checked), but they've sold only 1,000 in 2 years, but I wouldn't buy one, Same for Jaecoo. Rental giant Hertz has blamed high repair costs for a decision to dump 20,000 electric vehicles. Others are tentatively pulling back. Yet, the bigger picture is still one in which the industry goliaths have set aside billions to build entirely new line-ups from scratch.
So given the above, it seems that the EV market is probably on the cusp of a major reckoning that will claim some serious industry scalps. I do wonder which of our favourite European car manufacturers will still be standing by 2035. Or, maybe the Chinese will just buy them?
tamore said:
monkfish1 said:
tamore said:
Merc 450 said:
I'm hoping these things will eventually put the value of my 5 litre V8 F Type Jag up as they are stopping making them. People are already saying on the F Type forums they plan to buy a new one and put it in to storage as an investment.
how exciting.ChocolateFrog said:
I remember when a new 5 pot ST was £18k by the time all the discounts had been applied.
I wonder if I'll ever not be shocked by new car prices.
That doesn't shock me considering your £18k in 2006 is £30k today. I am pretty sure you can buy a new Focus ST for £33k today. I wonder if I'll ever not be shocked by new car prices.
10% doesn't really get my goat considering how much more of a car in terms of size, spec, safety, NVH...and mpg you get for your money.
As people move out of ICE vehicles, restrictions and taxes on their continual use will surely rise. How many cities will prohibit their use for example?
As such, the pool of people willing to own even interesting legacy petrol cars will shrink and so will the values.
While a Ferrari might still find enough buyers, I suspect many other decently interesting cars will fall by the wayside
As such, the pool of people willing to own even interesting legacy petrol cars will shrink and so will the values.
While a Ferrari might still find enough buyers, I suspect many other decently interesting cars will fall by the wayside
nickfrog said:
ChocolateFrog said:
I remember when a new 5 pot ST was £18k by the time all the discounts had been applied.
I wonder if I'll ever not be shocked by new car prices.
That doesn't shock me considering your £18k in 2006 is £30k today. I am pretty sure you can buy a new Focus ST for £33k today. I wonder if I'll ever not be shocked by new car prices.
10% doesn't really get my goat considering how much more of a car in terms of size, spec, safety, NVH...and mpg you get for your money.
M4cruiser said:
Green Hammer said:
These are the weaker players but it would be a mistake to assume the big manufacturers are immune by virtue of size alone. A rethink is already taking place. Ford is considering partnerships with General Motors after warning that some battery-operated models have become unprofitable because of spiralling raw material prices.
Rental giant Hertz has blamed high repair costs for a decision to dump 20,000 electric vehicles. Others are tentatively pulling back. Yet, the bigger picture is still one in which the industry goliaths have set aside billions to build entirely new line-ups from scratch.
So given the above, it seems that the EV market is probably on the cusp of a major reckoning that will claim some serious industry scalps. I do wonder which of our favourite European car manufacturers will still be standing by 2035. Or, maybe the Chinese will just buy them?
This is why I'd stick with a major brand just now, you really don't know how long the minority players will be here. Spare parts have to be doubtful in a few years time. Someone near me has an Ora, and it may well look good on the paper specs (I haven't checked), but they've sold only 1,000 in 2 years, but I wouldn't buy one, Same for Jaecoo. Rental giant Hertz has blamed high repair costs for a decision to dump 20,000 electric vehicles. Others are tentatively pulling back. Yet, the bigger picture is still one in which the industry goliaths have set aside billions to build entirely new line-ups from scratch.
So given the above, it seems that the EV market is probably on the cusp of a major reckoning that will claim some serious industry scalps. I do wonder which of our favourite European car manufacturers will still be standing by 2035. Or, maybe the Chinese will just buy them?
740EVTORQUES said:
As people move out of ICE vehicles, restrictions and taxes on their continual use will surely rise. How many cities will prohibit their use for example?
As such, the pool of people willing to own even interesting legacy petrol cars will shrink and so will the values.
While a Ferrari might still find enough buyers, I suspect many other decently interesting cars will fall by the wayside
Yes the numbers will fall, just as with classics today. As often mentioned on the bangers show some of the driving force is nostalgia, as in my Dad had one of those. Thus certain models are preserved even though they were a bit rubbish when they were new. Clearly some of them are now down to single numbers registered and on the road. Opinion on whether they're interesting or significant depends on the view of the individual.As such, the pool of people willing to own even interesting legacy petrol cars will shrink and so will the values.
While a Ferrari might still find enough buyers, I suspect many other decently interesting cars will fall by the wayside
However the technology on them is such that they're straightforward for a reasonably competent spannerman to maintain. Not sure their value will diminish. In my opinion there are so few of them and typically do so few miles that they should be exempt from your suggested increased restrictions and taxes.
The question I have is twofold. If we look at general run of the mill cars over recent years, the complications is such that they will become increasingly difficult and maybe impossible to keep running, maybe the expense will deter the casual owner driven by the Dad had one of those sentiment. Second part is I find modern stuff difficult to get that emotional connection to want to run them essentially forever. These will reduce in value clearly, though don't think that applies to anything that is seen as significant, say GR Yaris as one example, though not a run of the mill vehicle clearly. In other words it's not going to be just Ferraris and their ilk.
andy43 said:
My guess is fewer and fewer people will stick with legacy brands. There are a heck of a lot of MGs on the road - super cheap transport - that’s all most buyers are after. Whether there’s the spares support and dealer network to keep these Chinese brands like Ora and BodgeYourDrive going is another matter…
The current 1st year / 3000 miles depreciation on a GWM Ora 3 is over 50% against list.That's over £1300 a month or over £8 a mile.
charltjr said:
stevemcs said:
But the top of the range focus against the bottom of the range model 3 that they don’t even fit all of the basic parts too. The Focus will still be worth something in 3 years, the Tesla probably 15k.
A quick look on autotrader shows asking prices for a three year old ST and a three year old Model 3 are the same. Propping up legacy manufacturers by allowing them to continue producing ICEs diverts their focus from investing in the catch-up they desperately need to compete with Chinese EVs.
That road just delays the inevitable and seals it for sure.
A bunch of old-school manufacturers all competing with each other trying to sell new ICEs to a dwindling global market were the cost of new ICE ownership is rapidly increasing.
Sounds like fun.
Forcing them to sink or swim now is the only way they get to survive long term.
That road just delays the inevitable and seals it for sure.
A bunch of old-school manufacturers all competing with each other trying to sell new ICEs to a dwindling global market were the cost of new ICE ownership is rapidly increasing.
Sounds like fun.
Forcing them to sink or swim now is the only way they get to survive long term.
Green Hammer said:
Wasn't it the head of Toyota (the worlds largest car maker) who said that EV's were not suited to many markets and would only ever represent 30% or so of the global market? So quite why the manufacturers would want to ditch 70% of their future market is quite a stretch of the imagination don't you think? But please feel free to share what you know about the global car market that the head of Toyota doesn't.
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