350Z/370Z, Z4C, Z4 35i, 135i/335i, XKR/XFR, Monaro, or...?
Discussion
CABC said:
TameRacingDriver said:
So, my mind currently is drawn to a....
TVR Chimaera 4.0
Seems like there are some decent examples around for £11K-£12K.
Ticks the V8 box. Lighter than my MX5 with a good chunk of extra power and especially torque. My admittedly small amount of research has suggested that they're not ruinously expensive to run, and relatively robust / reliable. Quite simple machines too. The interior looks a fantastic place to be. I can't see them losing any money. Seems like a very tempting proposition?
Is this a brave pill type of car or are they actually alright?
awesome cars. I got one last year to complement the Elise, which it does really well. But that's the problem with it being your only car - it's definitely not an Elise/MX5/MR2/Boxster or even a Zed. it does theatre, noise and V8 torque. sitting in that cockpit is a feel good experience. I'm getting my suspension sorted soon but I really don't expect it to be a Boxster afterwards.TVR Chimaera 4.0
Seems like there are some decent examples around for £11K-£12K.
Ticks the V8 box. Lighter than my MX5 with a good chunk of extra power and especially torque. My admittedly small amount of research has suggested that they're not ruinously expensive to run, and relatively robust / reliable. Quite simple machines too. The interior looks a fantastic place to be. I can't see them losing any money. Seems like a very tempting proposition?
Is this a brave pill type of car or are they actually alright?
I'm not sure about 12k ones either, I'd be careful. Well cared for ones are up to double that. Buy well, visit a specialist and they're reliable.
They're worth of "ticking off the list" more than others you've mentioned imo, but as an only car you'd probably move on after a year.
I paid £12k for mine and it came with recent expenditure pushing £7k including new fuel tank, outriggers, suspension, roof, interior retrim and a few other things. Despite this it turned out it wasn't the best purchase I'd made as I ended up spending more than that again in 5 years including the engine rebuild. However, there are plenty of decent examples out there that have cost their owners buttons to run (fuel aside) and have done big mileage- there is an owner on here with a 240k+ mile example!
As mentioned above, things to look out for are chassis rust, corroded fuel pipes (evidence of these being changed is preferable), tired suspension / tyres, and the camshaft can often wear out by 60-70k miles and can be difficult to spot until you compare it to a car with a fresh one. As with any car, it is significantly cheaper to buy an example that has already had all of this stuff done, than buying a 'cheap' example and ending up paying for the work yourself. Also look at mileage on MOT history as another common problem is sticking milometers- have seen a few cars with the same mileage listed on multiple MOTs meaning the 'actual' mileage is significantly higher than that showing. Not that mileage is an issue on these providing they have been looked after.
In my opinion they offer more excitement than any of their rivals at a similar price point- the low seating position, light weight, and incredible noise from the Rover V8 almost makes the actual performance irrelevant! I think of them as offering the British classic car experience but with modern performance. The later TVR 'T cars' offer a sharper driving experience, feel altogether more modern, and the Speed 6 is a much racier engine, but the Chimaera / Griff sound better and are a more relaxed drive.
We had both the Chimaera and a Tuscan for a while, before eventually moving the Chimaera on. As much as I prefer the Tuscan, no car I've owned has sounded better than the Chimaera. And just look at it
Lovely cars I have to say, yours looks great 
But.... We know there was a but coming...
£12k seems to be more or less the entry level price and it does seem like it would be spendy, and my budget wasn't / can't really exceed £10k anyway so I'll probably put this idea on hold for a bit.
To be honest, I've just had a few unforeseen events happened in the last few weeks which have cost me a lot of money which has impacted the plans for now, such is life.
I still think there's a good case to be made for buying cheaper, and to be honest I've been looking at Boxsters again. Possibly even just the 2.5, as they seem to be plentiful. The tick the good sounding box, they tick the comfortable box, and they actually still handle.
Yes I know they can potentially throw up big bills but I feel like I could take the risk on a £5-£6k car as they're almost disposable at that price; undoubtedly it would still be a kick in the nuts if that happens but otherwise a solid choice possibly.
At the end of the day I don't want to be trying to run a car on a shoestring budget, and some of these cars I was looking at have the potential to cause upsets which I'm really not in the mood for.
But.... We know there was a but coming...
£12k seems to be more or less the entry level price and it does seem like it would be spendy, and my budget wasn't / can't really exceed £10k anyway so I'll probably put this idea on hold for a bit.
To be honest, I've just had a few unforeseen events happened in the last few weeks which have cost me a lot of money which has impacted the plans for now, such is life.
I still think there's a good case to be made for buying cheaper, and to be honest I've been looking at Boxsters again. Possibly even just the 2.5, as they seem to be plentiful. The tick the good sounding box, they tick the comfortable box, and they actually still handle.
Yes I know they can potentially throw up big bills but I feel like I could take the risk on a £5-£6k car as they're almost disposable at that price; undoubtedly it would still be a kick in the nuts if that happens but otherwise a solid choice possibly.
At the end of the day I don't want to be trying to run a car on a shoestring budget, and some of these cars I was looking at have the potential to cause upsets which I'm really not in the mood for.
TameRacingDriver said:
Yes I know they can potentially throw up big bills but I feel like I could take the risk on a £5-£6k car as they're almost disposable at that price; undoubtedly it would still be a kick in the nuts if that happens but otherwise a solid choice possibly.
wise not to buy cheap.that said, if you're concerned about the cash then seeing 6k as an acceptable loss seems contradictory (man maths!)
I really get the itch for a change and the experience, but I'd reassure you again that a well sorted 5 gives about as much real world driving pleasure as anything. sensible man says save up a little more for that next scratch before rushing. difficult I know!
CABC said:
wise not to buy cheap.
that said, if you're concerned about the cash then seeing 6k as an acceptable loss seems contradictory (man maths!)
I really get the itch for a change and the experience, but I'd reassure you again that a well sorted 5 gives about as much real world driving pleasure as anything. sensible man says save up a little more for that next scratch before rushing. difficult I know!
Honestly mate, I really think you are right, and deep down I know this. The 5 owes me nothing, and every time I drive it, I question why I am doing this. I think there's a part of me wants a nice noise, but then going for a bigger engine will generally mean a car that doesn't handle or feel like the mx5 does, and the kinds of cars that give the best of both worlds are massively out of my budget.that said, if you're concerned about the cash then seeing 6k as an acceptable loss seems contradictory (man maths!)
I really get the itch for a change and the experience, but I'd reassure you again that a well sorted 5 gives about as much real world driving pleasure as anything. sensible man says save up a little more for that next scratch before rushing. difficult I know!
Hell I even remember when I got the mx5 and it was clearly more fun more of the time than the Boxster was.
Maybe I just need to stop dreaming and start saving as you say.
If that ends up being the outcome then hopefully nobody feels they've wasted their time on this thread, as ultimately it really has helped me clear things up and I've found it very interesting regardless.
I've just got to try and get my mate to shut up as he keeps trying to talk me into things, bless him
A TVR has this ability to make you happy one minute and then sad the next. They generally take a lot of patience and money, so I also think you are wise to swerve them. The 370Z is a safe bet reliability/noise wise, however you won't get the lightness/nimbleness that you get from your MX-5 though in comparison.
I'm really enjoying the thread regardless of what decision you eventually come to.
I'm really enjoying the thread regardless of what decision you eventually come to.
cerb4.5lee said:
A TVR has this ability to make you happy one minute and then sad the next. They generally take a lot of patience and money, so I also think you are wise to swerve them. The 370Z is a safe bet reliability/noise wise, however you won't get the lightness/nimbleness that you get from your MX-5 though in comparison.
I'm really enjoying the thread regardless of what decision you eventually come to.
Yep I know from bitter experience that all cars can make you happy one minute and sad / stressed the next, some more than others. I think to have genuinely enjoyable ownership of a tvr you need deep pockets and plenty of patience, and I don't particularly possess either. Of course, whenever you think of these things, you only ever think of the good, that's for certain.I'm really enjoying the thread regardless of what decision you eventually come to.
I know how stressed I used to get when I had cars in the past when I genuinely couldn't afford to look after them properly and it seriously ruined the ownership experience of those cars, and quite often I was so eager to get rid I would take a big hit on getting it sold quickly, an experience I don't really want to revisit.
I think I also need to be more grateful for the things I already have and not be constantly thinking about the next big thing, which always end up being something of an anticlimax.
I think the 370Z is possibly the answer at the end of the day, but even decent examples of those are over £10k realistically so I think CABC is absolutely bang on the money; keep what I have, enjoy it, enjoy the fact it's not stressing me out, save up and wait until I can properly afford it without feeling like it's going to impact my day to day life. It's not as though the mx5 is a boring piece of s
t either, I'm sure most people would be happy to 'slum it' in a 200 bhp NA 1100kg RWD sports car I think there is always something to learn from these types of threads, so never a waste of peoples time.
I guess ultimately do you really have that nagging need to try something else? My first NA VX220 I sold it to try something else, even though its was a heck of a machine. Reason why it didnt worry me was that I could always get another one, and a few years later I did exactly that.
The saving idea is a good one as long as you can keep your goalposts constant...dont move them...save another 5k and then you will be looking at something else previously out of scope for a bit more and over stretching again, always hunting around at the bottom of the barrel of cars mostly out of financial reach.
Thought of this thread the other day actually, was out driving and saw two XKRs within literally 10 mins of each other, and have to say the earlier version looked better! It was I think lowered as it looked so low slung and hunkered down.
I guess ultimately do you really have that nagging need to try something else? My first NA VX220 I sold it to try something else, even though its was a heck of a machine. Reason why it didnt worry me was that I could always get another one, and a few years later I did exactly that.
The saving idea is a good one as long as you can keep your goalposts constant...dont move them...save another 5k and then you will be looking at something else previously out of scope for a bit more and over stretching again, always hunting around at the bottom of the barrel of cars mostly out of financial reach.
Thought of this thread the other day actually, was out driving and saw two XKRs within literally 10 mins of each other, and have to say the earlier version looked better! It was I think lowered as it looked so low slung and hunkered down.
cerb4.5lee said:
A TVR has this ability to make you happy one minute and then sad the next. They generally take a lot of patience and money,
well, Cerbs aren't the same as Chims, esp cared-for Chims.in any case I'll take the occasional pain in a real sports car (though my Elise has been fault free for over 10yrs), but I'd be well pissed off if my boring workhorse broke down or needed multiple/long dealer visits. so I drive boring Japanese for the daily schleps. one reason why I haven't got a Jag or RR on my list of dailies to own, though I love them. one recovery would negate the 2db quieter cabin.
cerb4.5lee said:
A TVR has this ability to make you happy one minute and then sad the next. They generally take a lot of patience and money.
Completely agree with that Lee! Although I would add that the patience / money required is a sliding scale- whereabouts you fall on that scale depends how hands on you are and how much you DIY. I know several people who's TVRs have been very cheap to run (financially) as they DIY most of the work. The Chim especially is very DIY friendly. However if you take it to a specialist to sort out every niggle then it can certainly add up...I am in the annoying middle ground where I have neither the time to DIY as much as I'd like, nor the finances to just drop off at a specialist and say 'make this as new again' whenever an issue arises! In many respects I am not well suited to TVR ownership
Unfortunately they get under your skin and I've yet to find anything else that feels anywhere as 'exotic' that isn't at least double the price.
Squirrelofwoe said:
cerb4.5lee said:
A TVR has this ability to make you happy one minute and then sad the next. They generally take a lot of patience and money.
Completely agree with that Lee! Although I would add that the patience / money required is a sliding scale- whereabouts you fall on that scale depends how hands on you are and how much you DIY. I know several people who's TVRs have been very cheap to run (financially) as they DIY most of the work. The Chim especially is very DIY friendly. However if you take it to a specialist to sort out every niggle then it can certainly add up...I am in the annoying middle ground where I have neither the time to DIY as much as I'd like, nor the finances to just drop off at a specialist and say 'make this as new again' whenever an issue arises! In many respects I am not well suited to TVR ownership
Unfortunately they get under your skin and I've yet to find anything else that feels anywhere as 'exotic' that isn't at least double the price.
I completely agree that they do get under your skin, and it took me years to get over mine. I still flirt with the idea of buying an S or a Chim, but then my missus kindly reminds me of how much pain and financial heartache the Cerb brought me though! I still love TVR regardless though for sure.
I'm very happy with the M4/370Z now, because the M4 offers me the performance, and the 370Z offers me the noise and the added bonus of roof down motoring too.
I think what's partially driven my desire to own one of these cars is that feeling that there's some pressure on now to do so while we still can, there's a real feeling of now or never.
I can and should save up so I'm not leaving myself short. However I ask myself, if I do that, what's to say that the prices aren't going to be another 50% higher in a few years and find myself no closer to achieving it.
Then again perhaps things might go the other way in the long term but I doubt it.
It's one of those rock and a hard place situations but ultimately it's not really worth putting myself into a stressful situation for either so I will likely go with my head and just hope anything is actually still affordable at the point when I'm actually ready.
I can and should save up so I'm not leaving myself short. However I ask myself, if I do that, what's to say that the prices aren't going to be another 50% higher in a few years and find myself no closer to achieving it.
Then again perhaps things might go the other way in the long term but I doubt it.
It's one of those rock and a hard place situations but ultimately it's not really worth putting myself into a stressful situation for either so I will likely go with my head and just hope anything is actually still affordable at the point when I'm actually ready.
no way to forecast the future, but I would offer my own thoughts:
- end of ICE is further away than many suggest on here. ULEZ will be the biggest restriction for some time to come.
- there's a 'correction' on the way, natural cycle of things. some tightening is needed. from that pain will be some asset deflation (after too much monetary easing).
- sports cars will have two forces: simpler cars aren't made anymore and will be desirable to some, and yet the overall audience for sports cars is diminishing with EV and large ICE autos. Even on PH the appetite for (proper) sports cars is quite weak really, just look at what is considered for a "road trip"
tldr: opportunities will exist next year.
- end of ICE is further away than many suggest on here. ULEZ will be the biggest restriction for some time to come.
- there's a 'correction' on the way, natural cycle of things. some tightening is needed. from that pain will be some asset deflation (after too much monetary easing).
- sports cars will have two forces: simpler cars aren't made anymore and will be desirable to some, and yet the overall audience for sports cars is diminishing with EV and large ICE autos. Even on PH the appetite for (proper) sports cars is quite weak really, just look at what is considered for a "road trip"
tldr: opportunities will exist next year.
CABC said:
no way to forecast the future, but I would offer my own thoughts:
- end of ICE is further away than many suggest on here. ULEZ will be the biggest restriction for some time to come.
- there's a 'correction' on the way, natural cycle of things. some tightening is needed. from that pain will be some asset deflation (after too much monetary easing).
- sports cars will have two forces: simpler cars aren't made anymore and will be desirable to some, and yet the overall audience for sports cars is diminishing with EV and large ICE autos. Even on PH the appetite for (proper) sports cars is quite weak really, just look at what is considered for a "road trip"
tldr: opportunities will exist next year.
Spooky timing, as I was just discussing this with Mrs TRD! - end of ICE is further away than many suggest on here. ULEZ will be the biggest restriction for some time to come.
- there's a 'correction' on the way, natural cycle of things. some tightening is needed. from that pain will be some asset deflation (after too much monetary easing).
- sports cars will have two forces: simpler cars aren't made anymore and will be desirable to some, and yet the overall audience for sports cars is diminishing with EV and large ICE autos. Even on PH the appetite for (proper) sports cars is quite weak really, just look at what is considered for a "road trip"
tldr: opportunities will exist next year.
I kind of said the same - that perhaps there is a bubble waiting to burst in the second hand market, and that things like cost of living will bite at some point, and as you say with the looming restrictions like ULEZ and beyond, it's difficult to imagine prices will stay as elevated as they currently are... time will tell obviously.
I agree with you though, I think there will still be opportunities next year.
Perhaps to put a brighter note on it, it's an opportunity to real put my own mark on the car I have now, something I've never done yet, I haven't done anything at all to it since I got it.
TameRacingDriver said:
it's an opportunity to real put my own mark on the car I have now, something I've never done yet, I haven't done anything at all to it since I got it.
my best car experience was building a MX5 track car. Eventually supercharging it, but the best thing was the individual mods and how they felt. The best being chassis bracing. wow. big difference, and quite unexpected.Joy of a 5 is all these mods are well tried and tested, not just K&N filter nonsense.
a great starting point:If you're worried about time being called on ICE cars it makes sense to get something older which won't be around much longer. Plenty of ICE sports cars are still being built now like the mx5 for example. You'll be able to get them on the used market for years to come. How much their use might be restricted in the future is another matter.
Even in today's market a lot of older cars are still priced quite reasonably. The Jags you were looking at, or a 986/987 boxster won't break the bank to buy and shouldn't lose much money even if the used car market takes a dive.
I still might end up with an old boxster. To be honest I'd love one. Just need to be brave enough and think of ways around the practicality. I did think I had it sorted with another hot hatch but my interest in them is waning a bit. My current car is an excellent hot hatch and it just seems a bit stupid to chuck another 10k on top of it for basically the same thing but slightly newer and less miles. These thoughts go round my head a lot. I do expect to buy something later this year but as yet don't know for sure what it'll be!
Even in today's market a lot of older cars are still priced quite reasonably. The Jags you were looking at, or a 986/987 boxster won't break the bank to buy and shouldn't lose much money even if the used car market takes a dive.
I still might end up with an old boxster. To be honest I'd love one. Just need to be brave enough and think of ways around the practicality. I did think I had it sorted with another hot hatch but my interest in them is waning a bit. My current car is an excellent hot hatch and it just seems a bit stupid to chuck another 10k on top of it for basically the same thing but slightly newer and less miles. These thoughts go round my head a lot. I do expect to buy something later this year but as yet don't know for sure what it'll be!
ULEZ is an odd one, it basically has no impact on petrol cars from around 2005 onwards, so its not really an issue. Where it does become an issue is for cars like my old GT4 Celica which was a 1994 car and fell outside the limits.
ICE cars have some time to go yet, and as long as sufficient enough can be kept running cant see why you wont see petrol stations (albeit reduced numbers) heading towards 2040.
What I wouldn't count on is the used car market taking a sudden dive overall. Cost of living crisis is not going to be the thing it is now in 2-3 years time, its quite likely your 15k you have saved up will buy the same 10k cars you are looking at now.
ICE cars have some time to go yet, and as long as sufficient enough can be kept running cant see why you wont see petrol stations (albeit reduced numbers) heading towards 2040.
What I wouldn't count on is the used car market taking a sudden dive overall. Cost of living crisis is not going to be the thing it is now in 2-3 years time, its quite likely your 15k you have saved up will buy the same 10k cars you are looking at now.
coldel said:
What I wouldn't count on is the used car market taking a sudden dive overall. Cost of living crisis is not going to be the thing it is now in 2-3 years time, its quite likely your 15k you have saved up will buy the same 10k cars you are looking at now.
Definite donkey and carrot scenario there by the sounds of it 
ah well it is what it is! Perhaps they'll always be just out of reach but I still don't think it's worth me making myself skint either. Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff