Used car from dealer - issues within 30 days

[Nuisance]

I've had a 30k mile, current generation 2018 Touareg R Line Tech for 21 days. Bought from VW dealer. Within the first week, it had a couple of "moments" with warning lights on the dash related to its radar-based collision systems. Both times the faults cleared when I powered it down. Then it was fine for a few days. One of those things, I thought.


The week after, on one occasion only this time, it had a full on meltdown with these systems - it turned everything off related to them, radar cruise no longer available etc. Again, it hasn't reoccured since. Drove it for several more days without issue.

Yesterday, after several more days without problems, it activated the SOS system as I changed lanes on the motorway. I'm not entirely sure exactly what the car does when this triggers, but it seems to cut power, something odd happens with the steering, etc. It lasted a couple of seconds, then cleared. Then later on the same journey, when on the outside lane of the motorway, it decided it wanted to sharply apply the brakes for no reason, activating the SOS warning again. This then cleared and it was fine for the rest of the journey. Clearly, though, there's an underlying issue.

I phoned the VW dealer yesterday, who are willing to collect the car and leave me a replacement (they're at the opposite side of the country). Their after sales manager insists they legally have to be given the chance to rectify the fault. When I told him about it, he was rather sheepish and seemed to be aware of it. Given that it's within 30 days of purchase, I'm not sure if they have to be given the chance to repair or not? Essentially, I want to know if I can reject the car outright at this point.

There is a portion of the car that is financed, but not through VW, it's through Santander. I have spoken to a lady there this morning who gave me wishy-washy answers about whether I have to let VW check it over or not, or if I can instigate a rejection. I'm no clearer on what I can or can't do at this point.

My main issue is, my nearest VW dealer is a 50 mile round-trip. Yes, I have a 2 year warranty but once I'm outside of 30 days, I'm not willing to get into a never ending to-and-fro to the dealer if this is going to be an ongoing issue. I had a little look into this problem and it seems it's common, and VW don't really know what the problem is or how to fix it. It also affects other VAG products. Some owners have had multiple dealer visits for radar calibration, software updates or component replacements, and the issue still persists.

I've read previous posts on here but I can't send to find an answer to my particular situation.

[Grumps.]

Nuisance said:

I've had a 30k mile, current generation 2018 Touareg R Line Tech for 21 days. Bought from VW dealer. Within the first week, it had a couple of "moments" with warning lights on the dash related to its radar-based collision systems. Both times the faults cleared when I powered it down. Then it was fine for a few days. One of those things, I thought.


The week after, on one occasion only this time, it had a full on meltdown with these systems - it turned everything off related to them, radar cruise no longer available etc. Again, it hasn't reoccured since. Drove it for several more days without issue.

Yesterday, after several more days without problems, it activated the SOS system as I changed lanes on the motorway. I'm not entirely sure exactly what the car does when this triggers, but it seems to cut power, something odd happens with the steering, etc. It lasted a couple of seconds, then cleared. Then later on the same journey, when on the outside lane of the motorway, it decided it wanted to sharply apply the brakes for no reason, activating the SOS warning again. This then cleared and it was fine for the rest of the journey. Clearly, though, there's an underlying issue.

I phoned the VW dealer yesterday, who are willing to collect the car and leave me a replacement (they're at the opposite side of the country). Their after sales manager insists they legally have to be given the chance to rectify the fault. When I told him about it, he was rather sheepish and seemed to be aware of it. Given that it's within 30 days of purchase, I'm not sure if they have to be given the chance to repair or not? Essentially, I want to know if I can reject the car outright at this point.

There is a portion of the car that is financed, but not through VW, it's through Santander. I have spoken to a lady there this morning who gave me wishy-washy answers about whether I have to let VW check it over or not, or if I can instigate a rejection. I'm no clearer on what I can or can't do at this point.

My main issue is, my nearest VW dealer is a 50 mile round-trip. Yes, I have a 2 year warranty but once I'm outside of 30 days, I'm not willing to get into a never ending to-and-fro to the dealer if this is going to be an ongoing issue. I had a little look into this problem and it seems it's common, and VW don't really know what the problem is or how to fix it. It also affects other VAG products. Some owners have had multiple dealer visits for radar calibration, software updates or component replacements, and the issue still persists.

I've read previous posts on here but I can't send to find an answer to my particular situation.

Why don’t you let them just collect it and look into and rectify the problems?

It seems to me they are being reasonable and trying to help out.

And realistically, you have a two year warranty but it’s not their fault you live over 50 miles away from the nearest dealer.

[Nuisance]

Grumps. said:

Why don’t you let them just collect it and look into and rectify the problems?

It seems to me they are being reasonable and trying to help out.

And realistically, you have a two year warranty but it’s not their fault you live over 50 miles away from the nearest dealer.

My question wasn't whether VW are being reasonable or not, I've never said they aren't.

And I'm well aware that if there are the odd issues here and there that I'll be driving 25 miles each way to a dealer. I'm fine with that. I'll also use that very dealer for servicing. That's not a problem. Spending the next 2 years going back and forth regularly, given what I've read about this issue, would be a problem.


I'm asking what the situation is within this 30 day period.

[Grumps.]

Nuisance said:

Grumps. said:

Why don’t you let them just collect it and look into and rectify the problems?

It seems to me they are being reasonable and trying to help out.

And realistically, you have a two year warranty but it’s not their fault you live over 50 miles away from the nearest dealer.

My question wasn't whether VW are being reasonable or not, I've never said they aren't.

And I'm well aware that if there are the odd issues here and there that I'll be driving 25 miles each way to a dealer. I'm fine with that. I'll also use that very dealer for servicing. That's not a problem. Spending the next 2 years going back and forth regularly, given what I've read about this issue, would be a problem.


I'm asking what the situation is within this 30 day period.

The very first hit on Google.

https://www.carwow.co.uk/guides/buying/rights-when...

[Nuisance]

Yes, I've already read that.

So given that the car is almost 5 years old with 30k miles, and there were no defects for the first few days, is it "to be expected" that faults may occur, and the dealer has the right/I have to give the dealer the chance to rectify? What exactly is "expected" of a car of this age and mileage? That it may develop faults in the subsequent 30 days that weren't there to start with?

Initially the car was as described, and fault free. It now isn't. It satisfied those CRA conditions to begin with, and now it doesn't. I was not made aware of any of these faults, or a history of them.

I mentioned the CRA to the VW chap on the phone, and he said to me that they have to be given the chance to fix. He clearly is keen not to take a faulty car back into stock. If that's not true given these circumstances, then he's misleading me.

If it's blindingly obvious to you, and I'm clearly not seeing it, then please by all means spell it out for me.

[alscar]

Within 30 days I believe you can ask for a full refund or a repair but you have to be able to prove there was an issue when you bought it - which if electrical may not be so simple.
As well within the 30 days maybe best to let them try and repair and then keeps your options open if they fail to.
Their behaviour thus far appears very helpful.

[Grumps.]

Do you have a local VW indy that you could plug in VCDS and look at the faults codes?

With issues like you describe, they should be logged in the ECU.

[Nuisance]

alscar said:

Within 30 days I believe you can ask for a full refund or a repair but you have to be able to prove there was an issue when you bought it - which if electrical may not be so simple.
As well within the 30 days maybe best to let them try and repair and then keeps your options open if they fail to.
Their behaviour thus far appears very helpful.

Thank you.

My only concern is that the 30 day window is shortening. Or does it roll on from when I first raise the issue? They can't collect the car until Monday, and that's several more days into the period.

I really like the car. I just can't be doing with an untraceable fault being the bane of my existence for the next 2 years. And it appears that is the case for some owners.

[Nuisance]

Grumps. said:

Do you have a local VW indy that you could plug in VCDS and look at the faults codes?

With issues like you describe, they should be logged in the ECU.

There is a garage I could perhaps use. VW asked specifically if anyone else had looked at it, and they preferred nobody else to have done. So far, they haven't. I'm working the period between now and when VW can collect it, so it's difficult anyway.

[alscar]

Nuisance said:

Thank you.

My only concern is that the 30 day window is shortening. Or does it roll on from when I first raise the issue? They can't collect the car until Monday, and that's several more days into the period.

I really like the car. I just can't be doing with an untraceable fault being the bane of my existence for the next 2 years. And it appears that is the case for some owners.

Yup I appreciate that - I don’t know the answer to your first question but if it were me I’d be making the second point you make in writing to the garage then if they fail to mend the first time you have recourse.
They are lending you a car so they have a vested interest in getting it right.

[123DWA]

I know the Mk7 Golfs suffer with the bracket that the radar mounts to bending ever so slightly. The don't look bent to the eye but they are and no amount of recalibration will sort it so the remedy is another bracket from TPS & then have it recalibrated which normally sorts them. Perhaps this is the same issue? I know when it happens on the Golfs the car disables cruise control & lane assist.

I think WRT to rejecting it may be tricky as its intermittent & it doesn't stop the car from being used.

Edited by 123DWA on Thursday 27th April 11:13

[OutInTheShed]

Nuisance said:

Yes, I've already read that.

So given that the car is almost 5 years old with 30k miles, and there were no defects for the first few days, is it "to be expected" that faults may occur, and the dealer has the right/I have to give the dealer the chance to rectify? What exactly is "expected" of a car of this age and mileage? That it may develop faults in the subsequent 30 days that weren't there to start with?

Initially the car was as described, and fault free. It now isn't. It satisfied those CRA conditions to begin with, and now it doesn't. I was not made aware of any of these faults, or a history of them.

I mentioned the CRA to the VW chap on the phone, and he said to me that they have to be given the chance to fix. He clearly is keen not to take a faulty car back into stock. If that's not true given these circumstances, then he's misleading me.

If it's blindingly obvious to you, and I'm clearly not seeing it, then please by all means spell it out for me.

It's not fit for purpose if it requires turning everything off and back on to make it work.
I think there are plenty of threads in the speed/plod/law section about this.
A fault has come to light within 30 days, it's assumed that was present at point of sale.

My guess is, it only behaved for the first couple of days because they cleared all the errors before dumping it on you.

These cars with so much techocrap are not viable as used cars. Without a full warranty they are a liability.
Nobody is going to be able to keep them out of warranty, they will be worthless once you can't get cover.
If you want all this stuff, I suggest buying new.

[Mammasaid]

From the Ombudsman;

https://www.themotorombudsman.org/knowledge-base/w...

Motor Ombudsman said:

If you bought your car after 01 October 2015, the Consumer Rights Act 2015 applies. This means that, when you buy the vehicle, it has to be of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose and as described.

Within the first 30 days, if there’s a problem that means your car doesn’t meet these standards, it develops a serious fault or you find that it isn’t what was advertised to you, you can raise this with the seller and ask for your money back. In this instance, you will be entitled to a full refund.

If you report the problem outside of the first 30 days, you have to give the selling dealership or garage one opportunity to repair or replace your car, with repair normally being the best option.

If this fails because the same fault persists, or a new inherent fault has developed, you’ve then got two options: a price reduction, meaning you keep the vehicle and get back some of the money you paid for it or, to exercise your final right of rejection – where you will be entitled to a refund of what you paid for the car minus a deduction for any usage you’ve had. This is usually calculated by looking at how many miles you’ve added to the vehicle, and charging a certain amount of pence for each mile driven.

It’s worth bearing in mind that, if the issue occurs in the first six months after buying the car, it’s up to the selling dealership or garage to prove that it was of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose and as described when they sold it to you. However, if you want to reject your car for a full refund within the first 30 days, or the problem happens six months or more after you bought the vehicle, you – the consumer, needs to be able to prove that the car was not of satisfactory quality, unfit for purpose or not as described when you bought it. This will normally be through either a diagnosis from a garage or dealership, or an independent technical report. You can find more information about independent technical reports here.

If something does go wrong, the best thing to do is to let the business who sold you the vehicle know, and give them the chance to look into what’s happened. You can get in touch with the manufacturer if you like, but please remember that it isn’t the manufacturer who sold you the vehicle, so the Consumer Rights Act 2015 doesn’t apply to them in this situation. We’d always recommend contacting the selling dealership or garage and making sure they’re involved in the process of finding a resolution.

[Nuisance]

Thanks to the last few posters. I'm a little pushed for time for lengthy replies, but I appreciate all the input.

[ADJimbo]

Did you physically see the car and collect at the dealership from where you bought it or did you order it online and they delivered it to you?

What I'm trying to get to was this a distance sale?

[LightningBlue]

Some of the advice on this thread is poor, the post about the Ombudsman is correct.

Also as you bought the car approved used from a VW dealer it should be an easy process to exchange it (pasted from the VW website):

“30 day/1,000 mile 'no quibble' exchange policy.
If for any reason, you want to change the car - maybe you have second thoughts, or it doesn't fit in your garage you may be able to exchange it for another of the same price (or higher, with you paying the difference), as long as the vehicle is returned in the same condition as when it was collected and the retailer you bought your car from has an available vehicle in their stock.”

Personally I’d give them a chance to repair the car if you like it otherwise but there are options if that doesn’t happen.

[Nuisance]

ADJimbo said:

Did you physically see the car and collect at the dealership from where you bought it or did you order it online and they delivered it to you?

What I'm trying to get to was this a distance sale?

I placed a deposit over the phone after speaking to the salesman, viewing the online photos and video and being convinced of its condition. I then travelled to collect the car.

LightningBlue said:

Some of the advice on this thread is poor, the post about the Ombudsman is correct.

Also as you bought the car approved used from a VW dealer it should be an easy process to exchange it (pasted from the VW website):

“30 day/1,000 mile 'no quibble' exchange policy.
If for any reason, you want to change the car - maybe you have second thoughts, or it doesn't fit in your garage you may be able to exchange it for another of the same price (or higher, with you paying the difference), as long as the vehicle is returned in the same condition as when it was collected and the retailer you bought your car from has an available vehicle in their stock.”

Personally I’d give them a chance to repair the car if you like it otherwise but there are options if that doesn’t happen.

Thanks. I do like the car. The manager chap yesterday explained about the 30 day exchange thing, but insisted that they must be given the chance to rectify any issues. Seems that isn't strictly true.

[coldel]

Nuisance said:

Thanks. I do like the car. The manager chap yesterday explained about the 30 day exchange thing, but insisted that they must be given the chance to rectify any issues. Seems that isn't strictly true.

No its not. As per the ombudsmen report you are entitled to ask for a refund as it doesn't meet all three of the criteria of Quality As Described and Fit for Purpose.

In terms of the 30 days, as you reported it within the 30 days even if you roll over 30 days whilst in discussion with them you can still reject it (otherwise every dealership would just draw the process out until 30 days has elapsed). State within the 30 days you want your money back and they have to pay you. They do not have the right to deny you this.

Pull down the ombudsmen report, email it to them, state your rights. Keep records of all your conversations.

[Nuisance]

Thank you Coldel. Appreciate the advice.

[Trevor555]

If you've got it on finance reject it with them, as well as the dealer, if that's what you want to do.

The chap telling you that you HAVE to give them an opportunity to fix within the 30 days doesn't know his job.

Please contact citizens advice, they'll point you to template letters on their website to ensure you get the correct wording for your letters. Very important to get your letter in, with the correct wording. Send by email, and recorded post.

If the finance company refuse your rejection simply tell them you'll pass your case to the FCA.

They may try to point you towards another ombudsman, tell them no, and you'll be passing your case to the FCA.

Reason for the FCA?

If FCA agree to accept your complaint the finance company gets the bill for their investigation, and can also be fined by the FCA for not adhering to the rules.

Finance company really wont want FCA involved.

I had an ongoing 7 month case with Bmw that very quickly came to an end when the deadline for FCA involvement came.

Up until this point they pulled the shutters down and blanked me.