MB Lease Charges Dispute
Discussion
Hi all.
I have done some research on the forum of similar cases which has been useful and I wanted to share my situation to see if there is anything worthwhile to do or if I actually do not have any grounds.
On behalf of MBFS, Mortimer Clarke solicitors have written requesting a balance they claim is owed to MB or a claim to court will be issued.
The sum is for £990 for damage charges they say is out the scope of the lease agreement. Now I have to date maintained to MB i disput these charges which they sent after the initial report was done which I signed at Kerbside, they have since stated these charges incurred on their in-depth report.
What if the charges they are claiming for are down to damages that occured from point of collection to the delivery to the depot? It looks like from the report the driver has taken the vehicle to another location to further inspect it before it going to BCA
So i now have 3 weeks to select an option to respond with and wanted to ask if anyone else has been at this stage with MB charges and any advice relating to it
I have done some research on the forum of similar cases which has been useful and I wanted to share my situation to see if there is anything worthwhile to do or if I actually do not have any grounds.
On behalf of MBFS, Mortimer Clarke solicitors have written requesting a balance they claim is owed to MB or a claim to court will be issued.
The sum is for £990 for damage charges they say is out the scope of the lease agreement. Now I have to date maintained to MB i disput these charges which they sent after the initial report was done which I signed at Kerbside, they have since stated these charges incurred on their in-depth report.
What if the charges they are claiming for are down to damages that occured from point of collection to the delivery to the depot? It looks like from the report the driver has taken the vehicle to another location to further inspect it before it going to BCA
So i now have 3 weeks to select an option to respond with and wanted to ask if anyone else has been at this stage with MB charges and any advice relating to it
Not a lawyer but I understand that if this goes to court, it will be decided on the balance of probability.
MBFS lawyers would need to convince, what I assume would be a district judge, that on the balance of probability you caused the damage.
It will depend on what the damage is. If it’s something glaringly obvious that should have been picked up kerbside, I suspect that you would have a good chance of defending against the claim.
However if it’s something like a poor quality repair you’ve had carried out and they’ve spotted it on detailed inspection, this would be easier for them to prove.
MBFS lawyers would need to convince, what I assume would be a district judge, that on the balance of probability you caused the damage.
It will depend on what the damage is. If it’s something glaringly obvious that should have been picked up kerbside, I suspect that you would have a good chance of defending against the claim.
However if it’s something like a poor quality repair you’ve had carried out and they’ve spotted it on detailed inspection, this would be easier for them to prove.
Thank you for all the replies, I will arrange to get the pictures and description for what they are disputing.
To confirm, even though I only signed the kerbside pick up inspection report, MB can rely on the secondary inspection even though I am no longer the keeper or responsible from the point it is taken from pick up?
To confirm, even though I only signed the kerbside pick up inspection report, MB can rely on the secondary inspection even though I am no longer the keeper or responsible from the point it is taken from pick up?
I would be amazed if they actually go to court over £990.
Even if they do, there will very likely be a mediation stage first where both sides try to come to an arrangement outside of court. The small claims track looks very negatively on cases which don’t go through mediation first.
What’s the nature of the damage? Poor repairs? Actual damage which wasn’t picked up at the first inspection?
Even if they do, there will very likely be a mediation stage first where both sides try to come to an arrangement outside of court. The small claims track looks very negatively on cases which don’t go through mediation first.
What’s the nature of the damage? Poor repairs? Actual damage which wasn’t picked up at the first inspection?
jeezy said:
To confirm, even though I only signed the kerbside pick up inspection report, MB can rely on the secondary inspection even though I am no longer the keeper or responsible from the point it is taken from pick up?
They're not 'relying' on it OP. They're 'hopeful' that they may be able to bully you into paying the amount asked.
Refer m'learned friends back to the pick-up report - that's the state you gave the car back. If they mucked up the inspection they can sue their inspector.
Had a similar issue when we sent the wife’s Evoque back, there was some damage to the bumper that I knew was there but they tried to claim several “car park” dents on the secondary inspection.
Thankfully I’d taken hundreds of pics of each panel at all angles which I sent them. They dropped the debts and the bumper damage I knew about was actually very reasonable in the end. Think I managed to knock them down to less than half of what they originally were claiming.
Hopefully you’ve got lots of pictures to back up the roadside inspection as I’m sure there is something that states what you sign roadside isn’t the final inspection and is subject to closer scrutiny.
Thankfully I’d taken hundreds of pics of each panel at all angles which I sent them. They dropped the debts and the bumper damage I knew about was actually very reasonable in the end. Think I managed to knock them down to less than half of what they originally were claiming.
Hopefully you’ve got lots of pictures to back up the roadside inspection as I’m sure there is something that states what you sign roadside isn’t the final inspection and is subject to closer scrutiny.
jeezy said:
To confirm, even though I only signed the kerbside pick up inspection report, MB can rely on the secondary inspection even though I am no longer the keeper or responsible from the point it is taken from pick up?
What does it say in the T&C's of your lease agreement? This would all be covered in detail.OP, do you think that this 'extra' damage should have been easy to spot at the initial inspection, and therefore marked on the condition report in your presence?
Also, why is the finance company's solicitor saying that these additional damage charges are "out the scope of the lease agreement" - is that just a fancy way of saying it's not fair wear and tear?
What are the options that you've been given to choose from?
Also, why is the finance company's solicitor saying that these additional damage charges are "out the scope of the lease agreement" - is that just a fancy way of saying it's not fair wear and tear?
What are the options that you've been given to choose from?
Ted H said:
Not a lawyer but I understand that if this goes to court, it will be decided on the balance of probability.
MBFS lawyers would need to convince, what I assume would be a district judge, that on the balance of probability you caused the damage.
OP needs to be careful that it doesn’t jump that step and they get a CCJ for the debt with no chance to argue the details of the case.MBFS lawyers would need to convince, what I assume would be a district judge, that on the balance of probability you caused the damage.
Thank you again for all your comments.
The options I have been presented with are
1. I agree I owe the debt
2. I owe some of the debt but not all of it
3. I don't know whether I owe the debt
4. I dispute the debt
In terms of the damage they are trying to claim for it is
- bumper front scratched £210
- bumper rear scratched £210
- sill cover left hand scratched £210
- steering column shroud lower air freshener damage £30.50
Wheel left hand rear rim damage - £110
Wheel right hand front spoke damaged £110
Wheel right hand rear spoke damaged £110
When i queried about the report I signed based on the inspection at roadside not mentioning anything they have come back with, one of their reps came back with this
Thankyou for your recent correspondence. Regarding the report you have referenced this is a collection report completed by Anglia this is carried out to ensure the vehicle is road worthy and legal in order to be collected. This would not be an inspection of the vehicle from where charges would be raised. Once the vehicle is returned to our Defleet centre an inspection is then carried out and this is where the damage charges have been raised from please find the link to this report below;
I welcome all your thoughts, i plan to go back to them this week (the solicitors) stating my position
The options I have been presented with are
1. I agree I owe the debt
2. I owe some of the debt but not all of it
3. I don't know whether I owe the debt
4. I dispute the debt
In terms of the damage they are trying to claim for it is
- bumper front scratched £210
- bumper rear scratched £210
- sill cover left hand scratched £210
- steering column shroud lower air freshener damage £30.50
Wheel left hand rear rim damage - £110
Wheel right hand front spoke damaged £110
Wheel right hand rear spoke damaged £110
When i queried about the report I signed based on the inspection at roadside not mentioning anything they have come back with, one of their reps came back with this
Thankyou for your recent correspondence. Regarding the report you have referenced this is a collection report completed by Anglia this is carried out to ensure the vehicle is road worthy and legal in order to be collected. This would not be an inspection of the vehicle from where charges would be raised. Once the vehicle is returned to our Defleet centre an inspection is then carried out and this is where the damage charges have been raised from please find the link to this report below;
I welcome all your thoughts, i plan to go back to them this week (the solicitors) stating my position
If you’re sure that the damage wasn’t present at the point of collection and don’t want to compromise then the only choice is to let them take you to court and argue your case there.
It’s balance of probabilities on the small claims track and their collection report not picking up any issues will likely weigh in your favour.
Be careful though, if the damage was there and they have evidence which shows that then it won’t go well.
I would still be surprised if it gets that far TBH, it doesn’t make much financial sense for them to go to court but maybe they have a policy to try and cut down on losses.
It’s balance of probabilities on the small claims track and their collection report not picking up any issues will likely weigh in your favour.
Be careful though, if the damage was there and they have evidence which shows that then it won’t go well.
I would still be surprised if it gets that far TBH, it doesn’t make much financial sense for them to go to court but maybe they have a policy to try and cut down on losses.
I think that list isn't in your favour. The document you signed is not the final inspection as highlighted above.
One herbed wheel or a singledent you might be able to claim happened after collection, but scratched front and rear bumpers, three kerbed alloys, and "air freshener" damage? I think you would lose in court.
Unless the above damage is all a complete surprise to you, I would pay up.
Is it a surprise?
One herbed wheel or a singledent you might be able to claim happened after collection, but scratched front and rear bumpers, three kerbed alloys, and "air freshener" damage? I think you would lose in court.
Unless the above damage is all a complete surprise to you, I would pay up.
Is it a surprise?
OP, can you write out the list again and for each item outline whether it was there when the car was collected from you or if you are accusing the collector/mb of damaging the car post collection? This really is the only question you have to answer and then the correct action will be obvious.
Example:
Scratch on front bumper - nope wasn't me, must have happened after collection
Air Freshener - oops, yes that might have been me
...
Example:
Scratch on front bumper - nope wasn't me, must have happened after collection
Air Freshener - oops, yes that might have been me
...
As MB state, the collection inspection is to make sure it gets back to the depot ok. Only once there does the full inspection take place.
Are you saying that the report is incorrect and absolutely none of those things were there when it was collected, or are you saying that you consider that because nothing was said at collection you view that as the end of the matter and anything MB have claimed after they can go and do one?
If those things were there then you will have to lump it. Perhaps ask if the BVRLA wear and tear guidelines apply and how much these exceed them? Maybe see if you can make an offer?
I had a Mercedes CLK on PCP which went back 12 years ago. MB wrote with about £500 of charges. I knew one was acceptable, I thought one was picky and the other one which I never noticed - a cracked tail light. This was annoying as I suspect it had happened when the car was hit from behind when it was 3 weeks old and had an insurance repair, clearly nobody had picked it up at the time and it was a hairline crack.
Are you saying that the report is incorrect and absolutely none of those things were there when it was collected, or are you saying that you consider that because nothing was said at collection you view that as the end of the matter and anything MB have claimed after they can go and do one?
If those things were there then you will have to lump it. Perhaps ask if the BVRLA wear and tear guidelines apply and how much these exceed them? Maybe see if you can make an offer?
I had a Mercedes CLK on PCP which went back 12 years ago. MB wrote with about £500 of charges. I knew one was acceptable, I thought one was picky and the other one which I never noticed - a cracked tail light. This was annoying as I suspect it had happened when the car was hit from behind when it was 3 weeks old and had an insurance repair, clearly nobody had picked it up at the time and it was a hairline crack.
Thank you again for all your comments.
The options I have been presented with are
1. I agree I owe the debt
2. I owe some of the debt but not all of it
3. I don't know whether I owe the debt
4. I dispute the debt
In terms of the damage they are trying to claim for it is
- bumper front scratched £210
- bumper rear scratched £210
- sill cover left hand scratched £210
- steering column shroud lower air freshener damage £30.50
Wheel left hand rear rim damage - £110
Wheel right hand front spoke damaged £110
Wheel right hand rear spoke damaged £110
When i queried about the report I signed based on the inspection at roadside not mentioning anything they have come back with, one of their reps came back with this
Thankyou for your recent correspondence. Regarding the report you have referenced this is a collection report completed by Anglia this is carried out to ensure the vehicle is road worthy and legal in order to be collected. This would not be an inspection of the vehicle from where charges would be raised. Once the vehicle is returned to our Defleet centre an inspection is then carried out and this is where the damage charges have been raised from please find the link to this report below;
I welcome all your thoughts, i plan to go back to them this week (the solicitors) stating my position
The options I have been presented with are
1. I agree I owe the debt
2. I owe some of the debt but not all of it
3. I don't know whether I owe the debt
4. I dispute the debt
In terms of the damage they are trying to claim for it is
- bumper front scratched £210
- bumper rear scratched £210
- sill cover left hand scratched £210
- steering column shroud lower air freshener damage £30.50
Wheel left hand rear rim damage - £110
Wheel right hand front spoke damaged £110
Wheel right hand rear spoke damaged £110
When i queried about the report I signed based on the inspection at roadside not mentioning anything they have come back with, one of their reps came back with this
Thankyou for your recent correspondence. Regarding the report you have referenced this is a collection report completed by Anglia this is carried out to ensure the vehicle is road worthy and legal in order to be collected. This would not be an inspection of the vehicle from where charges would be raised. Once the vehicle is returned to our Defleet centre an inspection is then carried out and this is where the damage charges have been raised from please find the link to this report below;
I welcome all your thoughts, i plan to go back to them this week (the solicitors) stating my position
I think you have two options, but only you know the best choice -
1) you accept that you caused this damage (which judging from the volume of different items and locations, seems likely), own up to it, pay the money and accept the learning experience
2) you dispute the charges and put the onus back on MB and their solicitors to prove that the damage was not caused in transit; when you return a hire car, they inspect on return and end your hire. They don’t wait until someone else has driven the car, as they’d never be able to prove who actually caused any damage or when.
1) you accept that you caused this damage (which judging from the volume of different items and locations, seems likely), own up to it, pay the money and accept the learning experience
2) you dispute the charges and put the onus back on MB and their solicitors to prove that the damage was not caused in transit; when you return a hire car, they inspect on return and end your hire. They don’t wait until someone else has driven the car, as they’d never be able to prove who actually caused any damage or when.
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