How's a Brera coming off an IS250 in your opinion?
Discussion
SPKR said:
Thankfully I'm not in a highly populated area. And no ULEZ to worry about either. Only some very nice roads near by to enjoy. I'm within a couple of hours from the Alps, Stelvio pass or the beach.
But the AWD is not really any attraction to me. I would rather it be RWD. But take the AWD over the FWD options. What attracts me in the Brera is the looks, flare, the interior, the nice sounding V6 and the Italianess. Just fancy something different and the Brera is quite exotic. All the things the TT doesn't do, for me. Never liked the looks of them and don't see them as any special. Others might disagree. All things VW are just so common here.
Sounds like a good place to be driving-wise. Interesting that the AWD puts you off. From what you’re saying, the Brera’s appeal is very much design, feel and noise rather than the driving side then (although I realise noise plays a part in this). With that in mind, I wonder whether the Alfa’s weak points compared with the Lexus might grate on you quite quickly, if it doesn’t have more inherent appeal to you in terms of how it drives…But the AWD is not really any attraction to me. I would rather it be RWD. But take the AWD over the FWD options. What attracts me in the Brera is the looks, flare, the interior, the nice sounding V6 and the Italianess. Just fancy something different and the Brera is quite exotic. All the things the TT doesn't do, for me. Never liked the looks of them and don't see them as any special. Others might disagree. All things VW are just so common here.
Fair enough re: the TT. I remember sitting in a Brera a while back and feeling that it looked good at a distance but felt cheap to me inside, which detracted from that. This stuff is all subjective, though, so the key thing is how good the Brera makes you feel. If you love it, go for it. As has been mentioned before, if you can find a good one to test drive, that should make things clearer…
I had a 2.2 JTS a few years ago - i.e. the convertible version of the Brera.
It was a great car. Not particularly quick, but that wasn't a requirement for me. It had character, and everything worked exactly as it should despite it being 10+ years old when I bought it. The only issue I had in the few years I had it was a brake or clutch switch (can't remember which) which stopped cruise from working - but it was easily fixed.
It was one of several cars I've owned which really didn't live up to the fragile / will break every other trip / is a pile of crap stories you hear on the Internet.
At the time, my g/f had a Boxster. Much faster, and - on paper - better than my Alfa. I much preferred the Alfa.
It was a great car. Not particularly quick, but that wasn't a requirement for me. It had character, and everything worked exactly as it should despite it being 10+ years old when I bought it. The only issue I had in the few years I had it was a brake or clutch switch (can't remember which) which stopped cruise from working - but it was easily fixed.
It was one of several cars I've owned which really didn't live up to the fragile / will break every other trip / is a pile of crap stories you hear on the Internet.
At the time, my g/f had a Boxster. Much faster, and - on paper - better than my Alfa. I much preferred the Alfa.
Not much help here! But I had a 159 Sportwagon Ti of a similar vintage to the Brera (only went for the 159 due to needing space for the offsprings seats!) otherwise I would have gone for a Brera.
I found it brilliant, and very well built/rattle free, which I have also heard about the Brera. The angled aluminium dash, with the strip of dials always felt special. I can imagine the low cabin of the Brera would feel like an event too. And still head turning looks, try and get a Red and Tan
I think suspension components can be fragile on them, or at least, they were on the 159, so worth checking for that.
I only sold it, as I hated the 2.0D that was in it, and wish I had bought the V6.
The v6 in the Brera/159 etc isn’t a Busso though, it’s a Holden/GM unit.
The Alfa Romeo GT is another option, and did come with the 3.2 Busso.
I would go for it, with the V6, or if you can find one, the 1.75 TBi is meant to be an impressive engine!
I found it brilliant, and very well built/rattle free, which I have also heard about the Brera. The angled aluminium dash, with the strip of dials always felt special. I can imagine the low cabin of the Brera would feel like an event too. And still head turning looks, try and get a Red and Tan
I think suspension components can be fragile on them, or at least, they were on the 159, so worth checking for that.
I only sold it, as I hated the 2.0D that was in it, and wish I had bought the V6.
The v6 in the Brera/159 etc isn’t a Busso though, it’s a Holden/GM unit.
The Alfa Romeo GT is another option, and did come with the 3.2 Busso.
I would go for it, with the V6, or if you can find one, the 1.75 TBi is meant to be an impressive engine!
Edited by jamesbilluk on Tuesday 15th August 08:16
Edited by jamesbilluk on Tuesday 15th August 08:18
Heaveho said:
biggbn said:
Keep the Lexus.
This. The idea of something that's edgy and different is great, the reality usually different. I have a mate who had a Brera for a while, not long, parted with it quickly for all the reasons I'd expect to do likewise. I had an IS250 and was way more impressed by it than I expected to be. What it really taught me was to appreciate reliable things, but it was also all the things you've come to like about yours. I liked it enough to get an IS-F afterwards.
The Brera seems a proper marmite car in every way. For every story of somebody buying one and not liking there is another of somebody loving it to bits. Even the style, as drop dead gorgeous as it is, you find detractors. But none of this worries me.
My only worry is that the added up experience will fall short of the Lexus. I know for sure I will like to be in the Brera and walk to it way more than I do the Lexus. Interior feels much more special. Always reminded of the 8C. The exterior looks better too. I already it sounds much better too. I guess as slow as people say it is, it will still be faster than the IS250. So these are solid and certain advantages. But will the whole experience of daily driving it be as good or better than the IS250? This is the point. But I don't mean practicality. I know the Brera is practical enough and if not, we have another 2 cars. I mean the general driving experience and ownership.
RoVoFob said:
Shifter1 said:
RoVoFob said:
Shifter1 said:
RoVoFob said:
Shifter1 said:
So basically in many ways, the same as a Merc or Bimmer of same vintage.
By the way, what question were you answering? Definitely none in the OP.
By the way, what question were you answering? Definitely none in the OP.By the way, what question were you answering? Definitely none in the OP.
RoVoFob said:
SPKR said:
Thankfully I'm not in a highly populated area. And no ULEZ to worry about either. Only some very nice roads near by to enjoy. I'm within a couple of hours from the Alps, Stelvio pass or the beach.
But the AWD is not really any attraction to me. I would rather it be RWD. But take the AWD over the FWD options. What attracts me in the Brera is the looks, flare, the interior, the nice sounding V6 and the Italianess. Just fancy something different and the Brera is quite exotic. All the things the TT doesn't do, for me. Never liked the looks of them and don't see them as any special. Others might disagree. All things VW are just so common here.
Sounds like a good place to be driving-wise. Interesting that the AWD puts you off. From what you’re saying, the Brera’s appeal is very much design, feel and noise rather than the driving side then (although I realise noise plays a part in this). With that in mind, I wonder whether the Alfa’s weak points compared with the Lexus might grate on you quite quickly, if it doesn’t have more inherent appeal to you in terms of how it drives…But the AWD is not really any attraction to me. I would rather it be RWD. But take the AWD over the FWD options. What attracts me in the Brera is the looks, flare, the interior, the nice sounding V6 and the Italianess. Just fancy something different and the Brera is quite exotic. All the things the TT doesn't do, for me. Never liked the looks of them and don't see them as any special. Others might disagree. All things VW are just so common here.
Fair enough re: the TT. I remember sitting in a Brera a while back and feeling that it looked good at a distance but felt cheap to me inside, which detracted from that. This stuff is all subjective, though, so the key thing is how good the Brera makes you feel. If you love it, go for it. As has been mentioned before, if you can find a good one to test drive, that should make things clearer…
But I think you misunderstood me about the AWD. It doesn't put me off at all. To the contrary. If the Brera was only FWD, I wouldn't consider it. I would feel it would be a downgrade from where I am. It's just that the AWD is not the reason I would go for it. Well not the main reason. If I could choose, RWD all day. But AWD is a bonus over FWD to me. But for a daily car AWD probably has some advantages over even RWD. So all good.
Interesting that you felt the Brera interior was cheap. Subjective indeed. I think it feels as solid as anything built in Germany at the time. But looks much better. Looks sporty, special, eventful. Reminds me of the 8C interior.
A test drive will indeed be the deciding point, as it always is. But in this case it might not be enough. So I will have to take the risk or choose to leave it. It would be great if we had those personal car rental services like in the U.S., such as Turo, where I couldn't rent one from somebody for a week. This would be perfect. But no such luck.
davek_964 said:
I had a 2.2 JTS a few years ago - i.e. the convertible version of the Brera.
It was a great car. Not particularly quick, but that wasn't a requirement for me. It had character, and everything worked exactly as it should despite it being 10+ years old when I bought it. The only issue I had in the few years I had it was a brake or clutch switch (can't remember which) which stopped cruise from working - but it was easily fixed.
It was one of several cars I've owned which really didn't live up to the fragile / will break every other trip / is a pile of crap stories you hear on the Internet.
At the time, my g/f had a Boxster. Much faster, and - on paper - better than my Alfa. I much preferred the Alfa.
Nice to hear. It was a great car. Not particularly quick, but that wasn't a requirement for me. It had character, and everything worked exactly as it should despite it being 10+ years old when I bought it. The only issue I had in the few years I had it was a brake or clutch switch (can't remember which) which stopped cruise from working - but it was easily fixed.
It was one of several cars I've owned which really didn't live up to the fragile / will break every other trip / is a pile of crap stories you hear on the Internet.
At the time, my g/f had a Boxster. Much faster, and - on paper - better than my Alfa. I much preferred the Alfa.
By many accounts, apart from the subframe and chain issues, they are pretty reliable. Chain you just have to make sure it has been done at the right intervals. Subframe, I find that this is more of a problem with the 159 or maybe the diesel Breras, as the V6 Brera seems to have been more of a weekend or good weather darling type of car, rather than something people would put through winter. I'm seeing many V6 adds saying not driven during winter. But putting a car on a ramp will easily tell. So neither of these problems are the type which would sneak up on you. They are pretty easy to spot.
jamesbilluk said:
Not much help here! But I had a 159 Sportwagon Ti of a similar vintage to the Brera (only went for the 159 due to needing space for the offsprings seats!) otherwise I would have gone for a Brera.
I found it brilliant, and very well built/rattle free, which I have also heard about the Brera. The angled aluminium dash, with the strip of dials always felt special. I can imagine the low cabin of the Brera would feel like an event too. And still head turning looks, try and get a Red and Tan
I think suspension components can be fragile on them, or at least, they were on the 159, so worth checking for that.
I only sold it, as I hated the 2.0D that was in it, and wish I had bought the V6.
The v6 in the Brera/159 etc isn’t a Busso though, it’s a Holden/GM unit.
The Alfa Romeo GT is another option, and did come with the 3.2 Busso.
I would go for it, with the V6, or if you can find one, the 1.75 TBi is meant to be an impressive engine!
The design, in and out is great. Indeed the interior and the aluminium dash are a nice sight. The built quality on them has always gotten good remarks. Top Gear even said it felt German or Audi like in that regard. Specially the interior and how solid and rattle free it is. I drove a 2.2 a year or two ago and was impressed that it didn't have any rattles, despite being almost 15 years old. I found it brilliant, and very well built/rattle free, which I have also heard about the Brera. The angled aluminium dash, with the strip of dials always felt special. I can imagine the low cabin of the Brera would feel like an event too. And still head turning looks, try and get a Red and Tan
I think suspension components can be fragile on them, or at least, they were on the 159, so worth checking for that.
I only sold it, as I hated the 2.0D that was in it, and wish I had bought the V6.
The v6 in the Brera/159 etc isn’t a Busso though, it’s a Holden/GM unit.
The Alfa Romeo GT is another option, and did come with the 3.2 Busso.
I would go for it, with the V6, or if you can find one, the 1.75 TBi is meant to be an impressive engine!
Edited by jamesbilluk on Tuesday 15th August 08:16
Edited by jamesbilluk on Tuesday 15th August 08:18
I would love red paint with tan leather. But I don't think it was available in the Brera. Only in the 159.
I'm aware of the GM connection. But it's only half true that the engine is a Holden lump right? It's only the block. The rest of the bits, which is what gives an engine character, are all Alfa. But none of this bothers me at all. Busso is lovely. But has it's faults too. It was a quarter of a century old by the time they introduced the Brera.
As nice at the 175 TBi might be, the V6 is the only one for me. 6 cylinders, the sound, and AWD.
Brera is a great looking car.
The interior-especially the seats are much improved from 2009ish.
I had a mechanically near-identical Alfa 159 V6 Q4 and it was very solid, planted and charismatic. This is the engine to get.
Powerflex polybushes are a must.
I'd avoid the Prodrive models as they are FWD and command a premium.
Even so the challenge is to get a decent example for sensible money-a lot out there are pretty leggy.
Last time I wanted a toy I seriously considered a Brera but went for another Giugiaro design (Maserati Coupe)
The interior-especially the seats are much improved from 2009ish.
I had a mechanically near-identical Alfa 159 V6 Q4 and it was very solid, planted and charismatic. This is the engine to get.
Powerflex polybushes are a must.
I'd avoid the Prodrive models as they are FWD and command a premium.
Even so the challenge is to get a decent example for sensible money-a lot out there are pretty leggy.
Last time I wanted a toy I seriously considered a Brera but went for another Giugiaro design (Maserati Coupe)
Drive one. Really. You really, really, really need to drive one before you spend any money. Make up your own mind once you've had a poke around the car and taken it for a few miles drive ideally on some fun roads with a bit of a patchy surface. Try to really press on and have some fun.
Maybe then try something else that might fit into your budget. Perhaps a six pot manual 3 series if you can find one, and then try it on the same roads.
How a car feels to drive is such a personal preference you'd be mad to rely on internet advice, far too much fanboy nonsense, snobbery, reverse snobbery, and confirmation bias.
Reliability and durability wise it's never going to match a Lexus, nothing does, but it'll probably be fine.
Maybe then try something else that might fit into your budget. Perhaps a six pot manual 3 series if you can find one, and then try it on the same roads.
How a car feels to drive is such a personal preference you'd be mad to rely on internet advice, far too much fanboy nonsense, snobbery, reverse snobbery, and confirmation bias.
Reliability and durability wise it's never going to match a Lexus, nothing does, but it'll probably be fine.
Edited by GeniusOfLove on Tuesday 15th August 10:49
SPKR said:
The design, in and out is great. Indeed the interior and the aluminium dash are a nice sight. The built quality on them has always gotten good remarks. Top Gear even said it felt German or Audi like in that regard. Specially the interior and how solid and rattle free it is. I drove a 2.2 a year or two ago and was impressed that it didn't have any rattles, despite being almost 15 years old.
I would love red paint with tan leather. But I don't think it was available in the Brera. Only in the 159.
I'm aware of the GM connection. But it's only half true that the engine is a Holden lump right? It's only the block. The rest of the bits, which is what gives an engine character, are all Alfa. But none of this bothers me at all. Busso is lovely. But has it's faults too. It was a quarter of a century old by the time they introduced the Brera.
As nice at the 175 TBi might be, the V6 is the only one for me. 6 cylinders, the sound, and AWD.
Sounds like the V6 is the way to go then! I would love red paint with tan leather. But I don't think it was available in the Brera. Only in the 159.
I'm aware of the GM connection. But it's only half true that the engine is a Holden lump right? It's only the block. The rest of the bits, which is what gives an engine character, are all Alfa. But none of this bothers me at all. Busso is lovely. But has it's faults too. It was a quarter of a century old by the time they introduced the Brera.
As nice at the 175 TBi might be, the V6 is the only one for me. 6 cylinders, the sound, and AWD.
I’ve various videos I’ve heard, this V6 still does sound great as well!
Ah, that’s a shame about the Red. I did park next to a black one at Shelsley Walsh car park once, that has tan leather and looked lovely. I spoke to the owner, said he can’t seem to stop buying them, the one he had at the time was well over 100K miles, and had been very reliable, interior looked in great condition too.
SPKR said:
The reason I didn't reply to canon fodder is because his post was pretty useless. He came in, attacked both cars with his personal opinion and left. He added nothing useful. It read like he was trying to start a conflict. I guess he succeeded. But I don't feel shifter1 was attacking him or off topic. He called him out on an useless post. Might be upfront. But not rude in my book. Maybe not worth the conflict because of such an irrelevant post.
I completely agree with what you’re saying regarding the initial post, but the response was just as unhelpful.The reason I commented was that I have seen a number of comments from that poster slating other people’s opinions for being unsubstantiated while imposing their own opinions on everyone else as fact. That seems pretty toxic to me on a discussion forum. The post I commented on was just an extension of that. Anyway, didn’t want to derail the thread…
It sounds like you have a strong pull towards the Brera, so maybe it’s worth finding a local Alfa/Brera owners’ group and seeing if there’s someone near you who will take you out in a Brera V6/allow you to try it out. There must be a way of driving one to help you gauge whether you’ll love driving it, as well as simply having it…
I took a 10-minute test drive last week and even though that specific car was pretty ropey, it’s made me certain that’s the model I want. Hopefully a decent Brera test drive will do the same for you.
SPKR said:
Fantastic roads indeed. Breath taking scenery, coupled with perfect tarmac and sweeping and engaging curves.
But I think you misunderstood me about the AWD. It doesn't put me off at all. To the contrary. If the Brera was only FWD, I wouldn't consider it. I would feel it would be a downgrade from where I am. It's just that the AWD is not the reason I would go for it. Well not the main reason. If I could choose, RWD all day. But AWD is a bonus over FWD to me. But for a daily car AWD probably has some advantages over even RWD. So all good.
Interesting that you felt the Brera interior was cheap. Subjective indeed. I think it feels as solid as anything built in Germany at the time. But looks much better. Looks sporty, special, eventful. Reminds me of the 8C interior.
A test drive will indeed be the deciding point, as it always is. But in this case it might not be enough. So I will have to take the risk or choose to leave it. It would be great if we had those personal car rental services like in the U.S., such as Turo, where I couldn't rent one from somebody for a week. This would be perfect. But no such luck.
Wish I had roads like that here! Ah, OK. I thought you were saying that AWD wasn’t ideal. You said you have multiple cars - what are the other ones, as presumably some cars will fit better alongside those than others?But I think you misunderstood me about the AWD. It doesn't put me off at all. To the contrary. If the Brera was only FWD, I wouldn't consider it. I would feel it would be a downgrade from where I am. It's just that the AWD is not the reason I would go for it. Well not the main reason. If I could choose, RWD all day. But AWD is a bonus over FWD to me. But for a daily car AWD probably has some advantages over even RWD. So all good.
Interesting that you felt the Brera interior was cheap. Subjective indeed. I think it feels as solid as anything built in Germany at the time. But looks much better. Looks sporty, special, eventful. Reminds me of the 8C interior.
A test drive will indeed be the deciding point, as it always is. But in this case it might not be enough. So I will have to take the risk or choose to leave it. It would be great if we had those personal car rental services like in the U.S., such as Turo, where I couldn't rent one from somebody for a week. This would be perfect. But no such luck.
Why do you say a test drive might not be enough? I took a test drive last week and even 10 minutes in a ropey model was enough to confirm that that’s the model I want, as it drove well and a tidier version would only drive better…
No anti Italian car bias here, owned a few Alfa and a load of Fiats but I just don't like the Brera. Heavy handed styling, not a brilliant drive and I freely admit I'm a lexus fan. I could understand swapping the Lexus for something more fun to drive, but I don't think, for me, the Brera would entice me enough to change
I have a Brera 3.2 JTS as my Shed / Winter car. I was actually looking for a 159, but a Brera turned up with new cam chains, poly bushes in all the right places and a really good SH, so I decided to go for it.
On the looks front, I think it is a bit of a marmite car. It's kind of grown on me and I've come to the conclusion that it looks very clunky from a couple of angles when stationary, but it usually looks really good while in motion. (Meaning other people's ones always look better than mine!) I think the clunky angles morph into more favourable ones very quickly while it's in motion and I sometime wonder if that was actually part of the design approach.
In terms of driving, you definitely need poly bushes in the lower front wishbones, as the standard ones have way too much play, even when new (I think they overdid the NVH suppression). I seem to remember the top ones are more of a nuanced choice, as they tend to be a bit squeaky. They do also get through wishbones quite quickly, as they are heavy old things.
Overall, it drives a lot more like an Audi than an Alfa (I've driven a contemporary A3 3.2, and they really are quite similar in terms of road manners). Engine wise, the JTS engine is no Busso, but it's quite entertaining when you boot it and makes a nice enough noise when the revs get above about 5K. Fuel consumption is comedy. You can scrape 25-28 MPG on 70ish Motorway work, but I've never cracked 30 MPG on any journey. Locally, it is a little better than my C6 RS6 used to be, but a little worse then a 4.7 Granturismo Sport. (19 MPG is the best I've managed over a week of local only driving).
Apart from the well known Cam chain and subframe issues, the other points to watch out for are:
Well-used driver door seals and boot seals can leak, leading to it becoming a bit musty inside.
Believe it or not, prop shaft bearings are not a serviceable item. If they start to go, a prop shaft specialist has to cut the shaft so the bearings can be replaced, then either weld together and rebalance , or fit some kind of engineered joint. Mine has done about 72,000 miles and noisy prop bearings are the only mechanical issue. I'll give Adrian at WAD Alfa a very grateful "plug" here, as he took the shaft off mine to investigate whether the bearings could be replaced and didn't charge me when he had to put it back, unchanged. He said it was useful research for him, as he had a number of 159 and Brera owners with bearings that were getting a bit noisy. Top service (Independent Alfa specialists tend to be as good as the Main Dealers are bad!)
Overall, the cabin is a very nice place to be (in the front seats at least). As others have said, VERY well put together, no rattles or clunks at all from my 2007 model. Facelift interiors look a hell of a lot nicer, but I have heard that the seats are not quite as comfortable.
If I had garage space to keep it in, I'd have loved a Spider - they look great from any angle, and the engine noise would be very acceptable with the roof down.
Definitely try to get a test drive as it will be a very different experience to a RWD LS250. Overall, as a relaxed cruiser, I love it, but if I had to do a lot of miles , the fuel consumption would make me think twice.
On the looks front, I think it is a bit of a marmite car. It's kind of grown on me and I've come to the conclusion that it looks very clunky from a couple of angles when stationary, but it usually looks really good while in motion. (Meaning other people's ones always look better than mine!) I think the clunky angles morph into more favourable ones very quickly while it's in motion and I sometime wonder if that was actually part of the design approach.
In terms of driving, you definitely need poly bushes in the lower front wishbones, as the standard ones have way too much play, even when new (I think they overdid the NVH suppression). I seem to remember the top ones are more of a nuanced choice, as they tend to be a bit squeaky. They do also get through wishbones quite quickly, as they are heavy old things.
Overall, it drives a lot more like an Audi than an Alfa (I've driven a contemporary A3 3.2, and they really are quite similar in terms of road manners). Engine wise, the JTS engine is no Busso, but it's quite entertaining when you boot it and makes a nice enough noise when the revs get above about 5K. Fuel consumption is comedy. You can scrape 25-28 MPG on 70ish Motorway work, but I've never cracked 30 MPG on any journey. Locally, it is a little better than my C6 RS6 used to be, but a little worse then a 4.7 Granturismo Sport. (19 MPG is the best I've managed over a week of local only driving).
Apart from the well known Cam chain and subframe issues, the other points to watch out for are:
Well-used driver door seals and boot seals can leak, leading to it becoming a bit musty inside.
Believe it or not, prop shaft bearings are not a serviceable item. If they start to go, a prop shaft specialist has to cut the shaft so the bearings can be replaced, then either weld together and rebalance , or fit some kind of engineered joint. Mine has done about 72,000 miles and noisy prop bearings are the only mechanical issue. I'll give Adrian at WAD Alfa a very grateful "plug" here, as he took the shaft off mine to investigate whether the bearings could be replaced and didn't charge me when he had to put it back, unchanged. He said it was useful research for him, as he had a number of 159 and Brera owners with bearings that were getting a bit noisy. Top service (Independent Alfa specialists tend to be as good as the Main Dealers are bad!)
Overall, the cabin is a very nice place to be (in the front seats at least). As others have said, VERY well put together, no rattles or clunks at all from my 2007 model. Facelift interiors look a hell of a lot nicer, but I have heard that the seats are not quite as comfortable.
If I had garage space to keep it in, I'd have loved a Spider - they look great from any angle, and the engine noise would be very acceptable with the roof down.
Definitely try to get a test drive as it will be a very different experience to a RWD LS250. Overall, as a relaxed cruiser, I love it, but if I had to do a lot of miles , the fuel consumption would make me think twice.
That's the biggest issue with mid sized engined cars like this, the performance is weak for the economy and RFL and paying 1/3rd the cars value every year for tax and using as much fuel as a 500bhp V8 is particularly painful when a 15 year old 330d hands your arse to you too.
Edited by GeniusOfLove on Tuesday 15th August 19:55
GeniusOfLove said:
That's the biggest issue with mid sized engined cars like this, the performance is weak for the economy and RFL and paying 1/3rd the cars value every year for tax and using as much fuel as a 500bhp V8 is particularly painful when a 15 year old 330d hands your arse to you too.
To be fair, the way I drive my Brera, a fifty year old Austin 1100 could probably hand my arse to me.Edited by GeniusOfLove on Tuesday 15th August 19:55
fflump said:
Brera is a great looking car.
The interior-especially the seats are much improved from 2009ish.
I had a mechanically near-identical Alfa 159 V6 Q4 and it was very solid, planted and charismatic. This is the engine to get.
Powerflex polybushes are a must.
I'd avoid the Prodrive models as they are FWD and command a premium.
Even so the challenge is to get a decent example for sensible money-a lot out there are pretty leggy.
Last time I wanted a toy I seriously considered a Brera but went for another Giugiaro design (Maserati Coupe)
The Maserati is a nice car. Probably my perfect daily driver. But in a totally different level of running costs. The interior-especially the seats are much improved from 2009ish.
I had a mechanically near-identical Alfa 159 V6 Q4 and it was very solid, planted and charismatic. This is the engine to get.
Powerflex polybushes are a must.
I'd avoid the Prodrive models as they are FWD and command a premium.
Even so the challenge is to get a decent example for sensible money-a lot out there are pretty leggy.
Last time I wanted a toy I seriously considered a Brera but went for another Giugiaro design (Maserati Coupe)
The Prodrives were never available here, so I don't need to worry about them. I agree the facelift interior looks nicer. But as have been said on the thread, I have heard the prefacelift seats are better.
Yes, the V6 commands strong money even if higher mileage, but like you, I think it's the only one to get.
GeniusOfLove said:
Drive one. Really. You really, really, really need to drive one before you spend any money. Make up your own mind once you've had a poke around the car and taken it for a few miles drive ideally on some fun roads with a bit of a patchy surface. Try to really press on and have some fun.
Maybe then try something else that might fit into your budget. Perhaps a six pot manual 3 series if you can find one, and then try it on the same roads.
How a car feels to drive is such a personal preference you'd be mad to rely on internet advice, far too much fanboy nonsense, snobbery, reverse snobbery, and confirmation bias.
Reliability and durability wise it's never going to match a Lexus, nothing does, but it'll probably be fine.
Of course I will drive one before spending any money. Maybe then try something else that might fit into your budget. Perhaps a six pot manual 3 series if you can find one, and then try it on the same roads.
How a car feels to drive is such a personal preference you'd be mad to rely on internet advice, far too much fanboy nonsense, snobbery, reverse snobbery, and confirmation bias.
Reliability and durability wise it's never going to match a Lexus, nothing does, but it'll probably be fine.
Edited by GeniusOfLove on Tuesday 15th August 10:49
Difficult will be pressing on. Most sellers are not very happy about that and barely let you have a go around the block. Specially in rare and unusual cars. Doesn't help that with rare cars you don't have a lot of availability to just go to the next one either. This will be the battle. But you are absolutely right.But a six pot manual 3 series would bring nothing to the table.
I'm already currently driving a six pot manual RWD 4 doors saloon, which never breaks down, is ultra reliable, way better built and am very happy with it. I can't see how another similar saloon would add anything. Specially given the reliability experience I had with BMW before. If I'm leaving this it will need to be something different or special. You are absolutely right about cars being a personal preference and no internet advice would replace a proper trial. I just though this being PH, I might find somebody who had been exactly in my shoes and gone from a Lexus to a Brera. It would have been interesting to read. But so far it has been interesting nonetheless.
And again we agree nothing really matches Lexus in reliability and build quality. So I will not hold the Brera to that. But I like hearing you say it will be fine. Based on what I have read I have to agree with you again.
jamesbilluk said:
SPKR said:
The design, in and out is great. Indeed the interior and the aluminium dash are a nice sight. The built quality on them has always gotten good remarks. Top Gear even said it felt German or Audi like in that regard. Specially the interior and how solid and rattle free it is. I drove a 2.2 a year or two ago and was impressed that it didn't have any rattles, despite being almost 15 years old.
I would love red paint with tan leather. But I don't think it was available in the Brera. Only in the 159.
I'm aware of the GM connection. But it's only half true that the engine is a Holden lump right? It's only the block. The rest of the bits, which is what gives an engine character, are all Alfa. But none of this bothers me at all. Busso is lovely. But has it's faults too. It was a quarter of a century old by the time they introduced the Brera.
As nice at the 175 TBi might be, the V6 is the only one for me. 6 cylinders, the sound, and AWD.
Sounds like the V6 is the way to go then! I would love red paint with tan leather. But I don't think it was available in the Brera. Only in the 159.
I'm aware of the GM connection. But it's only half true that the engine is a Holden lump right? It's only the block. The rest of the bits, which is what gives an engine character, are all Alfa. But none of this bothers me at all. Busso is lovely. But has it's faults too. It was a quarter of a century old by the time they introduced the Brera.
As nice at the 175 TBi might be, the V6 is the only one for me. 6 cylinders, the sound, and AWD.
I’ve various videos I’ve heard, this V6 still does sound great as well!
Ah, that’s a shame about the Red. I did park next to a black one at Shelsley Walsh car park once, that has tan leather and looked lovely. I spoke to the owner, said he can’t seem to stop buying them, the one he had at the time was well over 100K miles, and had been very reliable, interior looked in great condition too.
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