How's a Brera coming off an IS250 in your opinion?

[SPKR]

RoVoFob said:

It sounds like you have a strong pull towards the Brera, so maybe it’s worth finding a local Alfa/Brera owners’ group and seeing if there’s someone near you who will take you out in a Brera V6/allow you to try it out. There must be a way of driving one to help you gauge whether you’ll love driving it, as well as simply having it…

I took a 10-minute test drive last week and even though that specific car was pretty ropey, it’s made me certain that’s the model I want. Hopefully a decent Brera test drive will do the same for you.

The idea of an owner's club is brilliant. I had not thought of that. But given the Brera and 159 are the redhead step child of Alfas, I wonder if it will be easier to find. Alfistis snob them because of the GM connection, even though Alfas have been just Fiats in costume for decades and now also Chrysler and soon to be French bits.

Which car did you test? If I may ask.

[SPKR]

RoVoFob said:

SPKR said:

Fantastic roads indeed. Breath taking scenery, coupled with perfect tarmac and sweeping and engaging curves.

But I think you misunderstood me about the AWD. It doesn't put me off at all. To the contrary. If the Brera was only FWD, I wouldn't consider it. I would feel it would be a downgrade from where I am. It's just that the AWD is not the reason I would go for it. Well not the main reason. If I could choose, RWD all day. But AWD is a bonus over FWD to me. But for a daily car AWD probably has some advantages over even RWD. So all good.

Interesting that you felt the Brera interior was cheap. Subjective indeed. I think it feels as solid as anything built in Germany at the time. But looks much better. Looks sporty, special, eventful. Reminds me of the 8C interior.

A test drive will indeed be the deciding point, as it always is. But in this case it might not be enough. So I will have to take the risk or choose to leave it. It would be great if we had those personal car rental services like in the U.S., such as Turo, where I couldn't rent one from somebody for a week. This would be perfect. But no such luck.

Wish I had roads like that here! Ah, OK. I thought you were saying that AWD wasn’t ideal. You said you have multiple cars - what are the other ones, as presumably some cars will fit better alongside those than others?

Why do you say a test drive might not be enough? I took a test drive last week and even 10 minutes in a ropey model was enough to confirm that that’s the model I want, as it drove well and a tidier version would only drive better…

Other cars are a S1 Elise, most likely soon to morph into a MR2 Roadster or 124, and a CX5, which replaced a ML.

The reason I say a test drive might not be enough is that you never really get to know a car till you live with it. Then, I'm obviously enamored with it. So unless it's truly terrible from the get go, I will have to get over the honeymoon period first. I don't believe it will be terrible. The 2.2 I drove wasn't. I expect the V6 to be uphill from that. I of course will be able to tell if it handles well enough for me, is quick enough, if I fit well and so on. But this is not what I'm worried about. I'm worried if it will be a good fit or make me as happy as the Lexus in the longer run. To be honest, I don't care if it handles like a M2 or not. Not that type of brash car. It's a classy and stylish cruiser for me. If I want raw I have something else or that. But a test drive will definitely clear a lot up.

[SPKR]

biggbn said:

No anti Italian car bias here, owned a few Alfa and a load of Fiats but I just don't like the Brera. Heavy handed styling, not a brilliant drive and I freely admit I'm a lexus fan. I could understand swapping the Lexus for something more fun to drive, but I don't think, for me, the Brera would entice me enough to change

I can understand that. To me, the Brera doesn't need be more fun than the Lexus. It just can't be worse. Because it already looks better, with a more fun interior, and way more style overall. If it can at least matches the Lexus in driving, I will call it a win.

But I think the well balanced RWD chassis of the Lexus will give the front heavy FWD based Brera a difficult run. I'm counting on the AWD system to even things out enough. Let's see.

But I'm a Lexus fan as well. The IS250 is my first, but it has totally changed my mind and view of Lexus, which used to be the cliche that Lexus is boring and devoid of character and just a luxury barge. None of that with my IS, apart from being luxurious, enough. So if I could drive around in a nice red LC500 with a great 6 speed manual, I would be happy. But not possible.

[SPKR]

ian996 said:

I have a Brera 3.2 JTS as my Shed / Winter car. I was actually looking for a 159, but a Brera turned up with new cam chains, poly bushes in all the right places and a really good SH, so I decided to go for it.

On the looks front, I think it is a bit of a marmite car. It's kind of grown on me and I've come to the conclusion that it looks very clunky from a couple of angles when stationary, but it usually looks really good while in motion. (Meaning other people's ones always look better than mine!) I think the clunky angles morph into more favourable ones very quickly while it's in motion and I sometime wonder if that was actually part of the design approach.

In terms of driving, you definitely need poly bushes in the lower front wishbones, as the standard ones have way too much play, even when new (I think they overdid the NVH suppression). I seem to remember the top ones are more of a nuanced choice, as they tend to be a bit squeaky. They do also get through wishbones quite quickly, as they are heavy old things.

Overall, it drives a lot more like an Audi than an Alfa (I've driven a contemporary A3 3.2, and they really are quite similar in terms of road manners). Engine wise, the JTS engine is no Busso, but it's quite entertaining when you boot it and makes a nice enough noise when the revs get above about 5K. Fuel consumption is comedy. You can scrape 25-28 MPG on 70ish Motorway work, but I've never cracked 30 MPG on any journey. Locally, it is a little better than my C6 RS6 used to be, but a little worse then a 4.7 Granturismo Sport. (19 MPG is the best I've managed over a week of local only driving).

Apart from the well known Cam chain and subframe issues, the other points to watch out for are:

Well-used driver door seals and boot seals can leak, leading to it becoming a bit musty inside.

Believe it or not, prop shaft bearings are not a serviceable item. If they start to go, a prop shaft specialist has to cut the shaft so the bearings can be replaced, then either weld together and rebalance , or fit some kind of engineered joint. Mine has done about 72,000 miles and noisy prop bearings are the only mechanical issue. I'll give Adrian at WAD Alfa a very grateful "plug" here, as he took the shaft off mine to investigate whether the bearings could be replaced and didn't charge me when he had to put it back, unchanged. He said it was useful research for him, as he had a number of 159 and Brera owners with bearings that were getting a bit noisy. Top service (Independent Alfa specialists tend to be as good as the Main Dealers are bad!)

Overall, the cabin is a very nice place to be (in the front seats at least). As others have said, VERY well put together, no rattles or clunks at all from my 2007 model. Facelift interiors look a hell of a lot nicer, but I have heard that the seats are not quite as comfortable.

If I had garage space to keep it in, I'd have loved a Spider - they look great from any angle, and the engine noise would be very acceptable with the roof down.

Definitely try to get a test drive as it will be a very different experience to a RWD LS250. Overall, as a relaxed cruiser, I love it, but if I had to do a lot of miles , the fuel consumption would make me think twice.

Thanks for writing all that.

Very useful knowledge.

Yeah, I have heard the Audi comparisons many times. If we were talking about a sports car it might not be a stellar comparison. But for a daily cruiser, I guess this can be a compliment.

Fuel consumption is the biggest letdown here. To be daily driven. Thankfully at this moment in my life I don't have any long daily commuting. I'm home office quite a lot.

But the prop shaft bearing thing is mental. How does one know if they are about to go? Is the noise available on youtube to be heard or something? Is this a notorious problem that there could be people covering it online or is it obscure and more rare? Sounds worrying to be honest.

[RoVoFob]

SPKR said:

The idea of an owner's club is brilliant. I had not thought of that. But given the Brera and 159 are the redhead step child of Alfas, I wonder if it will be easier to find. Alfistis snob them because of the GM connection, even though Alfas have been just Fiats in costume for decades and now also Chrysler and soon to be French bits.

Which car did you test? If I may ask.

Owners of enthusiast cars are often quite keen to talk about them/show them off. The Brera may not be an old school Alfa but probably still has a following for V6 models…

I test drove a B8 Audi S4 Avant. Perfect mix of small/big enough and sensible/fun enough for me. My problem now is that I don’t know whether an older, more analogue B8 version would be better for me or if I should sell my other car and get a newer, more economical and reliable but less analogue B8.5 with electric steering and augmented engine sounds…

As always, I think more test drives are needed!

[RoVoFob]

SPKR said:

Other cars are a S1 Elise, most likely soon to morph into a MR2 Roadster or 124, and a CX5, which replaced a ML.

The reason I say a test drive might not be enough is that you never really get to know a car till you live with it. Then, I'm obviously enamored with it. So unless it's truly terrible from the get go, I will have to get over the honeymoon period first. I don't believe it will be terrible. The 2.2 I drove wasn't. I expect the V6 to be uphill from that. I of course will be able to tell if it handles well enough for me, is quick enough, if I fit well and so on. But this is not what I'm worried about. I'm worried if it will be a good fit or make me as happy as the Lexus in the longer run. To be honest, I don't care if it handles like a M2 or not. Not that type of brash car. It's a classy and stylish cruiser for me. If I want raw I have something else or that. But a test drive will definitely clear a lot up.

Hmm. It’s easy to see the appeal of cars where you’re buying with your heart on a test drive. Very hard to gauge whether they’ll still appeal if they need repairs in month one, if the boot proves too small or if the drive isn’t that appealing once you’ve got used to it, when they don’t cover all the sensible boxes.

From what you’ve said, it seems to me like you have far more to lose than gain by swapping to an Alfa; it may be great and sacrifice some sensible elements for more style and feel-good factor, or you could miss the Lexus’s comfort and features and the appeal of driving the Brera may wear off quickly. Both of those sound like a compromise in my eyes…

[ian996]

SPKR said:

Thanks for writing all that.

You are welcome!

SPKR said:

But the prop shaft bearing thing is mental. How does one know if they are about to go? Is the noise available on youtube to be heard or something? Is this a notorious problem that there could be people covering it online or is it obscure and more rare? Sounds worrying to be honest.

Yes, the prop shaft bearing is an odd one...it's almost if Alfa themselves thought the cars would rust out / otherwise fail before the bearings would need replacing!

There is not much on the web in terms of the symptoms (I looked pretty hard when mine started going), but you can find a few threads where people are discussing the non-serviceability:

https://www.alfaowner.com/threads/brera-159-q4-pro...

Here is a pic of one of the bearings (which are a bit hard to get hold of anyway)




The rubber bush deteriorates, so the bearing itself can move within the clamp. Mine manifested itself via a chirruping sound from the left-hand front wheel when I applied tight lock at low speeds. I assume this is because the torque causes the prop to flex a bit (there is never any noise/roughness/sense that anything is wrong once driving at much more than walking pace). My local Alfa Specialist packed the bearing housing with silicon, which has solved the issue temporarily, and I'm going to see how that stands up before deciding whether to bite the bullet an have the prop sliced /diced / put back together again. In the above thread , it suggests that there may be a solution where the rubber is replaced within the existing housings.

You'd know if the issue was present by doing some slow speed manouvering, but you wouldn't know if it was going to bite you in 1,000 miles time.

My guess is that , even if it occurs, it can be managed by periodic repacking of the bearing housing (whether with silicon, or a more permanent material), but it's worth being aware of the potential additional jeopardy (over and above cam chains and subframes).

Here's a bit of spiel on the Torsen setup itself:

https://www.alfaowner.com/threads/brera-159-q4-sys...

Re: Your comments about not being put off by the Audi comparison, if you are happy with a cruiser rather than a sports car, it's definitely worth pursuing a test drive. As per the above link (and an earlier post), the Q4 Torsen system is equivalent to the version in the S Audis, not the base 4WD models. It has rearward bias and, with rear and front lower polybushes, it feels very very planted...it's a bit of a lump, but it is a very reassuring lump in less than ideal conditions.