What's holding, dropping or rising?
Discussion
My usual bored browsing is around typical weekend cars; older 911s, Ms, AMGs etc. and lots of these types of cars have been hanging around for months now and had chunks taken off their prices.
I've had a look at a couple of cars recently and both owners were selling because their mortgage costs had increased significantly.
Seems like not everything is a 'rare appreciating classic' after all.
I've had a look at a couple of cars recently and both owners were selling because their mortgage costs had increased significantly.
Seems like not everything is a 'rare appreciating classic' after all.
Never mind M2s, the M-lite's are starting to take a battering from the insurance costs.
The M135i/140/235/240 forum on facebook has more good examples going up at lower prices and it's all because of the horrendous insurance increases. And yes, I can understand why - there are also a great number of mapped Cat-S' that are appearing for sale on there. But it still leaves the rest of us baulking when insurance prices have gone from £1600 a year to £2400 overnight. When you can only chop it in for £14k, what do you get that's comparable for the money?
The M135i/140/235/240 forum on facebook has more good examples going up at lower prices and it's all because of the horrendous insurance increases. And yes, I can understand why - there are also a great number of mapped Cat-S' that are appearing for sale on there. But it still leaves the rest of us baulking when insurance prices have gone from £1600 a year to £2400 overnight. When you can only chop it in for £14k, what do you get that's comparable for the money?
pb8g09 said:
Never mind M2s, the M-lite's are starting to take a battering from the insurance costs.
The M135i/140/235/240 forum on facebook has more good examples going up at lower prices and it's all because of the horrendous insurance increases. And yes, I can understand why - there are also a great number of mapped Cat-S' that are appearing for sale on there. But it still leaves the rest of us baulking when insurance prices have gone from £1600 a year to £2400 overnight. When you can only chop it in for £14k, what do you get that's comparable for the money?
This is surely going to start having a noticeable impact over the next year. Almost every car I try getting quotes for that are group ~29/30 is over £1,000 now and anything like an M135i is £1,400+. £1,000 is a barrier I don't want to cross and I'm surely not alone.The M135i/140/235/240 forum on facebook has more good examples going up at lower prices and it's all because of the horrendous insurance increases. And yes, I can understand why - there are also a great number of mapped Cat-S' that are appearing for sale on there. But it still leaves the rest of us baulking when insurance prices have gone from £1600 a year to £2400 overnight. When you can only chop it in for £14k, what do you get that's comparable for the money?
Matt.. said:
This is surely going to start having a noticeable impact over the next year. Almost every car I try getting quotes for that are group ~29/30 is over £1,000 now and anything like an M135i is £1,400+. £1,000 is a barrier I don't want to cross and I'm surely not alone.
Agree, I was expecting to go below that at renewal time this year, instead it went significantly up and I don't expect to get back to 'baseline' (i.e. last year's price) next year either when I collect 5 years NCD. Talking to people I work with a large proportion of them are talking about mortgage rates & energy costs as being a temporary blip & it’ll all come back to normal shortly, just wait.
One even suggests borrowing a bit of head room!
I think there are a lot people who don’t / won’t remember the world pre-Quantative Easing.
There is every likelihood that this ‘spike’ is a return to normal. Inflation & commodity prices is a revision to the norm. Historically they aren’t that high.
The idea that people would borrow through this period to maintain a facade of success to people they don’t know at the detriment of their long term future is alarming.
It’s going to be interesting few years.
One even suggests borrowing a bit of head room!
I think there are a lot people who don’t / won’t remember the world pre-Quantative Easing.
There is every likelihood that this ‘spike’ is a return to normal. Inflation & commodity prices is a revision to the norm. Historically they aren’t that high.
The idea that people would borrow through this period to maintain a facade of success to people they don’t know at the detriment of their long term future is alarming.
It’s going to be interesting few years.
Stick Legs said:
Talking to people I work with a large proportion of them are talking about mortgage rates & energy costs as being a temporary blip & it’ll all come back to normal shortly, just wait.
One even suggests borrowing a bit of head room!
I think there are a lot people who don’t / won’t remember the world pre-Quantative Easing.
There is every likelihood that this ‘spike’ is a return to normal. Inflation & commodity prices is a revision to the norm. Historically they aren’t that high.
The idea that people would borrow through this period to maintain a facade of success to people they don’t know at the detriment of their long term future is alarming.
It’s going to be interesting few years.
Must admit I've not heard anyone talking like that - where do you work?!One even suggests borrowing a bit of head room!
I think there are a lot people who don’t / won’t remember the world pre-Quantative Easing.
There is every likelihood that this ‘spike’ is a return to normal. Inflation & commodity prices is a revision to the norm. Historically they aren’t that high.
The idea that people would borrow through this period to maintain a facade of success to people they don’t know at the detriment of their long term future is alarming.
It’s going to be interesting few years.
I work at sea, and although we are a bit weird on the whole there is a fairly sensible attitude to things.
I was surprised on this occasion, having said that wishful thinking and predicting aren’t always that far apart & the idea that this could be a new normal would be quite depressing if you are only just starting out & haven’t yet bought a place etc.
I was surprised on this occasion, having said that wishful thinking and predicting aren’t always that far apart & the idea that this could be a new normal would be quite depressing if you are only just starting out & haven’t yet bought a place etc.
Energy rates may fall back, a little, but thanks to QE, we have a generation who think almost zero IR is 'normal.'
I won't bang on about rates in the 80s, yadda yadda, I appreciate the multiples are now more but that's the lenders (and borrowers to some extent) thought it was affordable. 35 year mortgages are now common apparently.
I expect the new floor for IRs will be about 4% and that's historically low!
I remember being at classic car auctions pre-covid where people were encouraged to take out a personal loan to buy a classic car, after all you couldn't lose....
I won't bang on about rates in the 80s, yadda yadda, I appreciate the multiples are now more but that's the lenders (and borrowers to some extent) thought it was affordable. 35 year mortgages are now common apparently.
I expect the new floor for IRs will be about 4% and that's historically low!I remember being at classic car auctions pre-covid where people were encouraged to take out a personal loan to buy a classic car, after all you couldn't lose....
Mustang trade in prices have definitely fallen through the floor!
Not that I'm looking to sell mine, but I generally keep an eye on pricing. Mine's only about 6 months old and currently valued at around £30k on Motorway ... it was £42k two months ago.
Can't get a CAP price for some reason, but the above is shocking.
Hopefully when the S650 comes out it'll be £60k+ as expected and help prices of the current gen.
I was planning on keeping this one until next summer, but there's no way I'm paying to get out of the finance.
Not that I'm looking to sell mine, but I generally keep an eye on pricing. Mine's only about 6 months old and currently valued at around £30k on Motorway ... it was £42k two months ago.
Can't get a CAP price for some reason, but the above is shocking.
Hopefully when the S650 comes out it'll be £60k+ as expected and help prices of the current gen.
I was planning on keeping this one until next summer, but there's no way I'm paying to get out of the finance.
Early F82 M4s have dropped significantly from when I last checked a month or two ago - a few >100k miler cars below £20k, plenty of sub 70k ones available below £24k.
Mk3 Seat Leon Cupras have dropped as mentioned above.
I have noticed a few cheaper cars come up through main dealers in the past few weeks - £30k low mileage TTRS, and a £32k 60k mile M2 Comp, both were snapped up fairly quickly.
Mk3 Seat Leon Cupras have dropped as mentioned above.
I have noticed a few cheaper cars come up through main dealers in the past few weeks - £30k low mileage TTRS, and a £32k 60k mile M2 Comp, both were snapped up fairly quickly.
I think there might be a couple things going on.
First, it seems that cars that are priced well are still selling pretty quickly. People know that prices are falling but if they need/want a car, they jump when a good one comes along. I’ve seen this on the cars I’m watching, as keenly priced cars come on and disappear pretty quickly. So I think there is some interest in well priced cars but people aren’t silly, they aren’t biting on the less well priced ones.
Second, that has a knock on effect that, if you’re not looking at cars daily, cars that are “over priced” are sitting for ages. That might show that the market isn’t moving that much. However, it’s the same cars that sit for sale for months at the same price but aren’t actually being bought, so that’s not necessarily a true reflection of the market price.
Hard to say with certainty as no one records sold prices (or makes them public) like you do with house sales.
First, it seems that cars that are priced well are still selling pretty quickly. People know that prices are falling but if they need/want a car, they jump when a good one comes along. I’ve seen this on the cars I’m watching, as keenly priced cars come on and disappear pretty quickly. So I think there is some interest in well priced cars but people aren’t silly, they aren’t biting on the less well priced ones.
Second, that has a knock on effect that, if you’re not looking at cars daily, cars that are “over priced” are sitting for ages. That might show that the market isn’t moving that much. However, it’s the same cars that sit for sale for months at the same price but aren’t actually being bought, so that’s not necessarily a true reflection of the market price.
Hard to say with certainty as no one records sold prices (or makes them public) like you do with house sales.
Edited by b8575 on Monday 2nd October 19:55
Amazingly the Mk8 Golf is having a hard time on the used market with some fair book drops for a car that historically does well.
EV’s and PHEV’s have had rapid drops but sub £35k they are having a dead cat bounce. Would still be wary of E-Trons as there are lots of “50 Technik” versions floating around the trade.
EV’s and PHEV’s have had rapid drops but sub £35k they are having a dead cat bounce. Would still be wary of E-Trons as there are lots of “50 Technik” versions floating around the trade.
RonnieHotdogs said:
Mustang trade in prices have definitely fallen through the floor!
Not that I'm looking to sell mine, but I generally keep an eye on pricing. Mine's only about 6 months old and currently valued at around £30k on Motorway ... it was £42k two months ago.
Can't get a CAP price for some reason, but the above is shocking.
Hopefully when the S650 comes out it'll be £60k+ as expected and help prices of the current gen.
I was planning on keeping this one until next summer, but there's no way I'm paying to get out of the finance.
Gosh that is a big drop. Hopefully whatever you go for next will have suffered a similar drop so the cost to change will still be palatable.Not that I'm looking to sell mine, but I generally keep an eye on pricing. Mine's only about 6 months old and currently valued at around £30k on Motorway ... it was £42k two months ago.
Can't get a CAP price for some reason, but the above is shocking.
Hopefully when the S650 comes out it'll be £60k+ as expected and help prices of the current gen.
I was planning on keeping this one until next summer, but there's no way I'm paying to get out of the finance.
I'm considering a Mustang, ideally the Bullitt edition, but I haven't seen dealers dropping asking prices. They still seem to be at 2020 levels (over £40k).
SFTWend said:
Gosh that is a big drop. Hopefully whatever you go for next will have suffered a similar drop so the cost to change will still be palatable.
I'm considering a Mustang, ideally the Bullitt edition, but I haven't seen dealers dropping asking prices. They still seem to be at 2020 levels (over £40k).
It's annoyingly what I'm finding! 3 year old cars are £40-£42k at dealers, yet I'm being told mine's worth £30k at 6 months old.I'm considering a Mustang, ideally the Bullitt edition, but I haven't seen dealers dropping asking prices. They still seem to be at 2020 levels (over £40k).
I'm sure it'll all even out.
They're a great car, and there's a fantastic community surrounding them. They do need a few minor mods to sort the vague handling out, but once they're done it's a night and day difference.
Bullitts seem to hold their value better, even though they're no different to the facelift car bar a few cosmetic bits.
RonnieHotdogs said:
It's annoyingly what I'm finding! 3 year old cars are £40-£42k at dealers, yet I'm being told mine's worth £30k at 6 months old.
I'm sure it'll all even out.
They're a great car, and there's a fantastic community surrounding them. They do need a few minor mods to sort the vague handling out, but once they're done it's a night and day difference.
Bullitts seem to hold their value better, even though they're no different to the facelift car bar a few cosmetic bits.
You're not being told it's worth £30k... You're being told they only want it if you're selling for £30k. I don't want to go back to owning an M4 but if you offered me a new shape one for £30k I'd have it. What's the average AT price for a 6month old pony? That'll give you more of an idea of 'value'I'm sure it'll all even out.
They're a great car, and there's a fantastic community surrounding them. They do need a few minor mods to sort the vague handling out, but once they're done it's a night and day difference.
Bullitts seem to hold their value better, even though they're no different to the facelift car bar a few cosmetic bits.
TheBinarySheep said:
I was looking for an M340i back in February.
I've checked again and there doesn't seem to be move movement in price. There might be a handful that are £2k cheaper, but most seem to be around £35k for a 2019-2020 model, which is what they were at the beginning of the year.
I've been looking at these for a year or so. They've not moved hugely on price, but insurance for me (20yrs NCB) is now almost double at £1.7k+. Add the tax on at £570 and it becomes a very expensive car to own.I've checked again and there doesn't seem to be move movement in price. There might be a handful that are £2k cheaper, but most seem to be around £35k for a 2019-2020 model, which is what they were at the beginning of the year.
J1990 said:
RonnieHotdogs said:
It's annoyingly what I'm finding! 3 year old cars are £40-£42k at dealers, yet I'm being told mine's worth £30k at 6 months old.
I'm sure it'll all even out.
They're a great car, and there's a fantastic community surrounding them. They do need a few minor mods to sort the vague handling out, but once they're done it's a night and day difference.
Bullitts seem to hold their value better, even though they're no different to the facelift car bar a few cosmetic bits.
You're not being told it's worth £30k... You're being told they only want it if you're selling for £30k. I don't want to go back to owning an M4 but if you offered me a new shape one for £30k I'd have it. What's the average AT price for a 6month old pony? That'll give you more of an idea of 'value'I'm sure it'll all even out.
They're a great car, and there's a fantastic community surrounding them. They do need a few minor mods to sort the vague handling out, but once they're done it's a night and day difference.
Bullitts seem to hold their value better, even though they're no different to the facelift car bar a few cosmetic bits.
And with something "heavy duty" like that you're in to the realms of does the dealer you're talking to actually want to stock it and retail it? If they dont they're going to bid you very low to make it worth their while taking the risk of bringing it in, sending it to auction and not losing money on it.
I'd say WBAC etc are hard on them too.
Probably likely to get the best trade bids from someone who specialises in them and wants it for retail stock.
The other downside is, the future isnt as clear cut relative to values as it was so dealers dont want to take any risk, particularly on a car that even if they do retail it might sit quite a while (and depreciating while its there), so if they have to take a risk they'll do so by bidding v low.
Auto810graphy said:
Amazingly the Mk8 Golf is having a hard time on the used market with some fair book drops for a car that historically does well.
EV’s and PHEV’s have had rapid drops but sub £35k they are having a dead cat bounce. Would still be wary of E-Trons as there are lots of “50 Technik” versions floating around the trade.
Agree with this. The lower price EVs I have been monitoring (i3's and Leafs) have definitely levelled in the last few weeks after coming down a lot. I am hoping the depreciation will start back up again soon. Kia e-Niro's are gently falling towards my price point (£15k ish) but not there yet.EV’s and PHEV’s have had rapid drops but sub £35k they are having a dead cat bounce. Would still be wary of E-Trons as there are lots of “50 Technik” versions floating around the trade.
Asking prices for modernish petrol automatics <=£15k don't seem to be softening much although definitely hanging around longer. I feel if sellers want to sell they will need to lower asking price.
Overall, across all of my AutoTrader searches, many cars are sitting unsold for a long time. As a potential buyer next year I do feel the market is gradually coming towards me as opposed to the last 2+ years when the asking prices have put me off for fear of taking a big hit.
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