"Adaptive" ECU

[DanH]

Yep pinnacle, I was thinking along those lines too having just read about similar stuff on an ultima build diary. Only worry is if they would interfere with air flow at high speed. Was also thinking more of whether they'd fit near the side scoops which in all likelihood pull in very little air.

Removing the rear numberplate makes a huge difference on track too, so moving it would also be an option. No obvious place presents itself though.

[gadgeroonie]

I'd consider a replacement intercooler if things got out of conreol

get one made the same size - but with a thicker core


or why not try one of these -

www.randbmotorsport.co.uk/shop/images/act_green.jpg

its an Air Charge Temperature Gauge

its a ford fitment and should fit a noble too

it tells you exactly how hot your air is getting

if it gets over 60 C then you need to think about backing off to let things cool down

[obes]

ThatPhilBrettGuy said:

I'm looking at Chargecoolers. Never looked at them before. It's opened up a whole new world...well, a cooler one anyway.

I've been having a look at chargecoolers too. Were you thinking instead of the intercooler or as well as ?

O.

[ThatPhilBrettGuy]

obes said:

ThatPhilBrettGuy said: I'm looking at Chargecoolers. Never looked at them before. It's opened up a whole new world...well, a cooler one anyway. I've been having a look at chargecoolers too. Were you thinking instead of the intercooler or as well as ? O.

Instead of. Have the chargecooler rad where the intercooler is now. Can't see where to put the chargecooler rad in the front, and the pipe work is much easier.

Phil

[obes]

Agreed, I was thinking exactly the same thing !
'Pace' seem to be well into it don't they?!

I guess the worry is that if the intercooler doesn't get enough air, nor will the new rad!

I know it would be 10 times more expensive & comlicated but I'd thought about 2 small rads by the rear window intakes. This is twice as hard on mine tho as it's an old one with the filters there!

>> Edited by obes on Tuesday 24th August 14:44

[ThatPhilBrettGuy]

Ah, but the chargecool rad can run MUCH hotter than the standard intercooler. The amount of air will be less of a factor then, because of the much higher heat differential (well, I think anyway).

I was thinking of a small electric fan on one half of it for slow speed, and to stave off heat soak in the system.

Matt may know more about this, or one of the Lotus boys.

Cheers

Phil

[DanH]

Whats the advantage? Info I find on chargecoolers is as follows :

8<------------------------

www.perfectpower.com/Technical_info/charge1.asp

A intercooler (IC) is a device which looks like a radiator, but contains the intake air. So the ambient air is cooling the intake air. A charge-cooler (CC) is a device where the ambient air cools water, which in turn cools the intake air. In essence a charge-cooler consists of two "radiators".

What's so good about them?

The "plumbing" is the deciding factor. It is sometimes impossible to get big (50-75mm) airducts from the engine to the front of the engine bay, but a flexible water pipe can be fitted easily. Another advantage of a charge-cooler is it thermal mass, which is very high due to the water. This means that the intake air will not change drastically when the car stops moving.

What's so bad about them?
Charge-coolers are less efficient and more costly than inter-coolers, because the heat has to travel over more transfer surfaces. A inter-cooler transfer is: ambient air/metal/intake air, where a charge-cooler is: ambient air/metal/water/metal/intake air. It is a thermodynamics law which states that heat (energy) can flow only when there is a temperature difference. For more information on inter-cooling refer to the HEAT& COOLING page.

8<------------------------

So not sure there is a win there? You are going to have more weight due to the pumps, radiators and charge cooler, and still be left with an airflow problem. I can see the point if you can route the rads up front, but easier said than done.

How about redirecting the aircon to blow over the intercooler?

[gadgeroonie]

i've tried a charge cooler as well and water injection and water sprays

The Charge cooler is best suited to a drag car

basically the charge cooler takes quite a while before the water flowing round gets heatsoaked - this means it will keep the temps lower for longer - but it also takes ages for the water to cool down afterwards too

fine for a dragster - but not for a road / race car

I used to fill my charge cooler with iced water for drag and dyno shootouts

the best solution is and always will be a big intercooler.

I like the idea of a charge cooler that is cooled by the aircon !! - now that does sound like a good idea

my advice is check how high your act's are before you decide on which course of action to take

[obes]

Only prob is that as soon as you get hot enough for this type of thing to be a problem, the air con packs up too !!!!!

[ThatPhilBrettGuy]

Advantages :-

- MUCH shorter pipes. Just look at how far/volume the compressed air travels at the moment.
- Better cooling. Like said above, they do work better.

Yes, they are heavier and can suffer from heatsoak, but I wasn't thinking of having a water based one.....

Hhhmm, back to Google it is....

[DanH]

obes said:

Only prob is that as soon as you get hot enough for this type of thing to be a problem, the air con packs up too !!!!!

I was joking about the aircon as thats got a bit of a cooling constraint too. Frankly I'm more intersted in getting some cold air over that heat exchanger than the intercooler

[ashgaunt]

Dont bother with other types of charge cooling. There is no where to fit the rads big enough to work except in the current IC location and then you just arnnt gaining anything.

Water injection will work CO2 is likely not to.

But to save your time and money, thinking along the lines of a 75mm cored IC in place of the current spec 50mm cooler is very very likely to help any undercooling problems for serious track day usage or racing on anything up to and including an M400. There is nothing wrong with the current setups IMHO but this will probs be an improvement for really serious use.

Any questions regarding the cars should be directed through the usual press channels - i.e. ask Simon pls.
Cos this discussion was going on and on I thought I'd input a little non-work related advice.

>> Edited by ashgaunt on Tuesday 24th August 18:20

[DanH]

Thanks for the advice Ash, certainly sounds more practical than some of the stuff we've come up with

The other thing though is just to move the damned rear numberplate as it makes a very measurable difference to IC temp on track, and presumably road too.

Anyone found a nice place to mount it permantently where its still lit as per legal requirements?

>> Edited by DanH on Tuesday 24th August 19:03