Engine finally ready for Dyno test

[sundance002]

I'm not really understanding the negativity here, for me this car was never reliable from day one, now I'm not saying they are all like that, but mine was, my first re build was done when I had no knowledge about these cars, it was running 550 bhp 510 ftlb, my second re build was done because the main shaft bearings failed, a not to uncommon problem it turns out, at this point I went the same route as some others and upped the power beyond 600 bhp, then the gearbox failed, 5th gear, a not to uncommon problem it turns out, seems to be a pattern appearing, so this time round I'm doing things my way,
With the changes we now have made, it can't be worse than it was before, now I know it will be reliable and in fact I have more faith now than before that for the first time I can actually put some mileage on the clock,
As so far I have managed about 3500miles in over three years, so what's to loose?

Thanks for the positive support guys, and all I can say to the doubters is watch this space.

[sundance002]

GTO600 said:

Good on you Craig & wish you all the best as like you I've had my share of problems, look forward to continued updates.

Gracias omego, will continue with the updates.

[sundance002]

wessexrfc said:

Yes, there can be alot of negativity and smart arse comments when it's comes to doing upgrades etc. On a lighter note, good for you for.......
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=...
I'm the one with the beard, giving it the "down with da kids" hand jesture

[sundance002]

RobGTO3 said:

Saw the black beast up on the ramps on Saturday at Bespoke and was given a brief guided tour by the legend that is Skip. He took my GTO3 to 500bhp last year and now it's time to look at keeping the old girl a bit cooler. The idea of 700 brake fills me with fear and envy in equal measure. Good luck Craig, can't wait to hear how the build turns out. I have a nasty feeling the notion of a clever programmable ECU is going to eat away at me now.....

What!!! skip giving my secrets away already;), Hi Rob, cool is def the way forward, have you done the tunnel mod? And some cleverly placed vents under engine compartment should help in a big way. New Ecu is a must IMO when you running non standard power, MBE is far to slow to keep up with our cars.
700 seems pretty mad cant wait to see what it feels like but it's not really about power at this point, it's more about control to help with reliability, the system they have designed and built is amazing, I'm already using it in my Caterham R600 superlight, R, only with different software inside the F88 , it's been faultless, the car hasn't missed a beat and is prob as quick as the Noble, so I know it works.
Can't wait to have a go now, if your around when I collect it, come and have a passenger ride no doubt it will scare us both silly..

[sundance002]

R0162 said:

This all sounds very good but very expensive...
are you also doing something with the gearbox?
I was thinking about tyres and traction, I noticed matts car had 275/40, and I assume there was some well thought out logic behind it, I am wondering if on your car 295/35 would help put that power down and would increase top end making it a true 200mph car.
The power delivery does look nice an linear, but there is just so much of it...lol..I bet your ecu would accept the race logic traction control system..it may be an idea to think about..
Amazing project thread though, you will get a good reaction if posted on the US forums...

Yes it is expensive, but not silly money. I am unable to do the work myself, unlike yourself and others on here, so I have to accept labour costs to, and in total has cost under 7k for everything including new looms, ecu, sensors, Inc, wheel sensors, and all the dyno work and the complete set up and fit.

Have been looking at tyre size, and have been thinking of changing to 295/35 for the rear. With the new gearbox, if it ever gets finished, will also be adding 10% to the gear ratios so will be a true 200+ mph car. We have also designed a new twin plate clutch.


Traction control is being added, like Adrian says, it can be done direct with ecu, but we added wheel sensors so we can monitor wheel slip, and clutch slip. The traction will mainly be for launch and exit speed, and of course to help the torque not to break things..

I'm only sharing this project to help others on here who may want to go a similar route, as some others have gone a diff route ie Andy,And I think it's great that there are so many choices with these cars, and some of us are looking and new ways of developing them, just as Adrian had done many years ago, I should go have a look at the posts of that work,
Did you share your info Adrian?

[sundance002]

Here's a few more pics of oil cooler (engine) now fitted, and the fuel pump , and a few other shinny new bits.

[sundance002]

GTO600 said:

Craig are you sure that's your engine oil cooler ? Really does look like its for your gearbox.

My mistake, yep it's the gearbox cooler and pump, and the fuel regulator , and fuel pump.

[sundance002]

andygtt said:

is that a statement?.... as knowone else has suggested that.

all that adrian has questioned is the Knock detection techniques... seeing as he actually supplies ecu electronics to manufacturers i'm guessing he understands it a lot better than the rest of us.

lets be clear, what has been done to sundances car is awsome and it WILL be way better than the MBE... maybe it wont make more power than the MBE is capable of, but it will be a lot safer IMO.

Looks like it will be hitting the roads soon... will it stay in essex long enough for us to get a test ride?????

Hi Andy, lets.not forget there are aftermarket ecu on the shelf from all manufactures for sale, mine cannot be bought off the shelf false stop,

The MBE could make no more power than 633bhp 553ftlb, we have already shown this system has produced 10% more power with no change to the car so not only safer but a lot more power with the Life.

I know Adrian deals with ECU software, how many LMP cars use his system,? it seems that some people seem to think they fit aftermarket Ecus to LMP cars and 50 million pound budgeted racing cars, I don't think so, so until people understand that this is no ordanary ecu and not one available to the public anywhere then we might actuly make some progress in understanding what's been done. There is no point in comparing it with anything else cause its not like anything else.

Yep it will be in Essex til next April so loads of time for test ride and drive.

[sundance002]

swankBaton said:

Craig - With all the work to keep it cooler in the back, did you decide it wasnt worth using a bigger mesh on the side pods?

Hi Alistair, yes we will be using a wider mesh on the rear and the side pods , don't think Skip has got round to fitting them yet.

[sundance002]

Gadgeroonie said:

i meant water radiators

.

Don't think so.

[sundance002]

here's a few more pics of the engine cooler and the plumping work that Skip is finishing, should be ready for Wed to fire up.
[url]

|http://thumbsnap.com/S44LBDOp[/url][url]

|http://thumbsnap.com/4YBoaNx8[/url][url]

|http://thumbsnap.com/uqJSTf12[/url]

Edited by sundance002 on Thursday 11th October 11:13

[sundance002]

The oil cooler is water cooled, it's a Laminova type and doesn't need to have a rad.


www.speedflowshop.co.uk/laminova-oil-to-water-cool...

Edited by sundance002 on Thursday 11th October 14:13

[sundance002]

chuntington101 said:

R0162 said:

I will be interested to see how the water temps handle cooling the engine oil aswell with the laminova, the water is cooling the turbos and engine and then also having to cool the oil from the turbos and engine, it was a problem on the 340bhp 3r,s never mind a 700bhp rocket...:-) .. yes it will help oil get to temp faster, but will it keep temps low under heavy useage is what is more important, if coolant temps rise then it will struggle to cool oil and oil gets hotter adding more heat to coolant and temps spiral up...in theory of course..:-) ..if you have any problems you can fit a 20 bar cooler in there with thermostat sandwich plate, it will take a lot of stress off the coolant system..

Thats what i was thinking. However remvoing the one (or two) small heat exchangers from the fornt of the car is also going to help in getting cold air to the radiator. Still be intresting to see how the radiator can hold up with the extra load.

That was my first thought, The car has never had a problem with water temps on track, has always been good, it has the pro alloy rad which helps a fair bit. The Laminova we are using is the largest size, they are super efficient .
We have made some other changes to help airflow to this area by cutting vents below on either side, so now will create more air in the side scoops. The Cunnards will help divert some air too,
The biggest change to body and rear clam is very simple, at the back of the little side windows there is a opening that leads to the engine, only thing is its so narrow it does nothing, so we are enlarging on both sides of rear clam to act as extra side scoops, keeping them small but having around a 4inch larger opening , should look like it was always there, being done in fibreglass so naturally blends back into clam.

[sundance002]

R0162 said:

sundance002 said:

That was my first thought, The car has never had a problem with water temps on track, has always been good, it has the pro alloy rad which helps a fair bit. The Laminova we are using is the largest size, they are super efficient .
We have made some other changes to help airflow to this area by cutting vents below on either side, so now will create more air in the side scoops. The Cunnards will help divert some air too,
The biggest change to body and rear clam is very simple, at the back of the little side windows there is a opening that leads to the engine, only thing is its so narrow it does nothing, so we are enlarging on both sides of rear clam to act as extra side scoops, keeping them small but having around a 4inch larger opening , should look like it was always there, being done in fibreglass so naturally blends back into clam.

Those scoops behind windows offer massive airflow into the engine bay, more than the side pods, its the age old topic again, dop not try to force more air in, you just need to allow the air to get out the back, the rear clam is a parachute as it is, if you want to improve airflow then open up and vent the whale tail, it will also improve IC airflow, you will see what i mean when you look through the vents, the IC and whale tail are connected and engine bay airflow can stall the IC airflow..

btw the water temps are an unknown on track unless you bypass the ECU with a separate sender, only time you will know they are not ok is when the needle starts to jump to 120.

The good thing now is that we have heat temp sensors in 3 positions, so can monitor for hot spots.

I believe that the flow will be good, there are enough exit points in the clam on top and behind and the exit where the IC sits, providing there is pressure it will push through any exit. I will be keeping my eye on temps, as the ecu now records everything, and the temp sensors should give us an idea of how it's performing, we can then fine tune airflow from the info we get in where its needed if at all .
My water temps at the highest before this work were 90 .

[sundance002]

R0162 said:

I thought the fans didnt cut in until 98?
Optimal running temp is 96, gauge shows 90 at all times until it gets up to 106 then the needle jumps round to 120, but i suppose your new ECU will be controlling this signal to the gauge now? So in theory the gauge should show your accurate temps?

I understand what you are saying about airflow, it will get forced out, but that is the problem that is exactly what you do not want, because to force out it means a pressure build up at the rear of the clam, this stalls airflwo from front of engine and also stall air passing through IC, because the air pressure builds upin the whale tail and go round the back of the IC to escape this stalling air passing through the IC, plus you are creating even more drag on a car that was already bad...think about what i have said some more.. running optimally and cool and efficiently are completely different things to just monitoring for hot spots..

Yes in theory my gauge should be accurate .

Have given lots of thought to creating better airflow, and you could be right, but I am trying to solve this problem without changing the look of the car to much, so by monitoring where the hotspots are I'm hoping to only change what is totally needed. so hopefully all the info we collect will show us what and where any probs are, then we can decide how to solve them, and what changes are needed.

[sundance002]

Well finally ready to be fired up tomorrow afternoon, and here's a few more pics of the heatshield bags on the turbos and some other heat shield on the bulkhead .

[sundance002]

Gadgeroonie said:

is the first pic the boost solenoids ?

It's the oil pressure and fuel pressure .

[sundance002]

Well started her up tonight, and she sounded completely different a lot more throaty, I was amazed you could hear the diff of how sweet she running now to before, the engine is so smooth, the response is instant, they made a few adjustments to the idle ie tick over, it was set at 1200 rpm , great for track not for road,so we agreed on 1050 rpm.
They also re gapped the plugs so now it doesn't blow the spark out at high boost, so now ready for the rolling road,
At a later point I have been told its better to change the plugs and coils to a higher spec but at 160 each coil they can wait till the first service.
So now Skip is finishing off all the new wiring and power cut off switch assembly, plus after moving all the important electrics to inside the car is inc the ecu, Skip is boxing it all in and covering with the same carpet so will not be seen, just means I've lost some storage space.
Should be on the rolling road in a couple of weeks, I will take a video of the session, and show all the final results results and the final settings that we have mapped in all 9 cals.

[sundance002]

Hi gents, an update on progress, and a few more pics.
The rolling road went great, she did still blow the spark out on the top power run with max boost,
but that was fixed today by replacing the plugs with a new type then having them machined.
she now has 8 settings, starting at 460bhp the last one being 690bhp, calculations showed that 716bhp was the max, the next thing at a later date will be the coil as that really isn't up to it. The rev lmtr has been set at 7200 rpm except for the last 2 wich have been set to 7600rpm.
here's a few pics of the new dash layout and cal switch.



The ecu and fuses, relays ect have been moved behind drivers seat,.
Few more pics of Skips great handy work.





Would like to say thanks to Skip at Bespoke, for all his hard work and great craftsmanship, his standard is exceptional, he has put everything together and helped with the development, also thanks to Terry Radbourne, Bourne Racing , for all the help in the new life system, and in bringing his race technology and putting it in my car and also helping in the development the results have been outstanding.
Picking her up tomorrow, and weather permitting, will hope to be at Silverstone on Sat 17th, you know might even go in the wet, just to see what it feels like, and how she handles in tough conditions, will be a good learning curve, of course I'm not going out if there to much standing water, damp to wet I'm thinking. track conditions.

Edited by sundance002 on Friday 16th November 01:28

Edited by sundance002 on Friday 16th November 01:30

[sundance002]

Thanks guys its been long and stressful, now to see if its been worth it.

Hi Andy, It showed that on the high power map the loss was just over 40hp to the wheels, which really ain't bad when you consider that most cars will lose 70 or 80.
How's your beast coming along?

Hi Graham, I thought I would wait and see what the car felt like without the traction control on track, then I can decide what level to have if any, as I really prefer to feel the limit rather than having it controlled, it makes me feel like I never really sure where the limit is, maybe because I'm not used to it as all my cars have been lucky even to have abs.

Hi Chriss, Sorry not got pics of the rear clam yet, as I'm having a spare made with these air scoops in, and rear arch vents with some other changes too, my idea is to put this one on for track days and the standard one for the road.

Cheers guys
Craig