Springs and shocks?

Springs and shocks?

Author
Discussion

AMG Merc

Original Poster:

11,728 posts

185 months

Friday 9th September 2016
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I may need a new set as one appears to have compressed (unless it's the shock). Does anyone know the OE type/rates? Also, I realise I should change these in pairs but is it recommended to change both front and rear at the same time (even if the rears are OK)?

steveobes

615 posts

111 months

Friday 9th September 2016
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Cant remember the front spring rate,got it written down somewhere.
Had my existing springs tested but I remember rears were 550 lbs.
Had all four uprated by 30% and it really made the car feel so much better.
Think the fronts are 500lbs front and 700lbs rear now.
Car still feels great on the road and not crashy.
transforms the ride on track.
Had some quantum mono shock dampers put on as well which are fantastic.

doug_porsche

34 posts

39 months

Saturday 10th September 2016
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My research turned up

All rates in Lbs/Inch

M12 F=425 R=575
M400/Rossion F=571 R=685
Protech (Tuxman setup) M12 F=450 R=600 Double Adjustable Shocks.

If you find different, let me know

Jarcy

1,182 posts

207 months

Saturday 10th September 2016
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I've fitted Gaz shocks supplied by Jetstream.
Fronts - 600lbs, Rear - 700lbs.
They're certainly not too hard for road use - I really like them.
Much better than the bouncy Protechs (although Protech offer 2 options for spring rates on the front, so I'd advise going for their "track" setup rather than "road", even on the road).

steveobes

615 posts

111 months

Saturday 10th September 2016
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Trouble is unless iv got this wrong forgive me if I have,is that these shocks from protek,gas and the like are not mono shocks like the original bilsteins that came with the car and are using very old tec in their products .
Matt from Jetstream advised me that unless you go mono shock it really is a backward step.
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Jarcy

1,182 posts

207 months

Saturday 10th September 2016
quotequote all
steveobes said:
Trouble is unless iv got this wrong forgive me if I have,is that these shocks from protek,gas and the like are not mono shocks like the original bilsteins that came with the car and are using very old tec in their products .
Matt from Jetstream advised me that unless you go mono shock it really is a backward step.
I'm not sure what "mono shocks" are? They're all coil-overs. I thought monoshocks were for bikes.
Matt recommended the Gaz shocks to me, and having now tried the OEM Bilsteins, Protechs and the Gaz, the latter is definitely the best for me.

steveobes

615 posts

111 months

Saturday 10th September 2016
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Sorry should have said mono tube dampers.
Have a search on the difference between mono tube and twin tube dampers.

Adrian W

11,069 posts

160 months

Saturday 10th September 2016
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Both Ohlins and Black art Designs have set ups for the M12 that just work.

steveobes

615 posts

111 months

Saturday 10th September 2016
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Going back to original question.
Faulkner Springs tested my old springs
Fronts were 395 lbs
Rears were 550 lbs
So they have lost a bit since new.
Might be worth uprating if you get the chance

Adrian W

11,069 posts

160 months

Saturday 10th September 2016
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i thought your springs are about right for the road, the noble road set up isn't that hard, the dry race set up is 900 and 1000, wet was 750 and 800

steveobes

615 posts

111 months

Saturday 10th September 2016
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To be honest Adrian original spring rates are fine for the road but as you know as soon as you
go on track,not racing but a normal track day the original spring rates seem a bit soft.
So I went with 500lbs front and 700lbs rear which doent make it to harsh on the road but really
transforms the car on track

wessexrfc

4,323 posts

118 months

Monday 12th September 2016
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So it's not just me that find the Protecs bouncy, any solutions to this??

TuxMan

8,953 posts

170 months

Monday 12th September 2016
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stiffen them up a bit , i just do not get this bouncy protech !!!b the damping rate is 50% stiffer than the std setup when they are set at full hard , as long as the springs are set evenly through out the car and the damping levels are set evenly from side to side there should not be any bounce .

Midlifecrisis71

2,856 posts

207 months

Monday 12th September 2016
quotequote all
steveobes said:
Trouble is unless iv got this wrong forgive me if I have,is that these shocks from protek,gas and the like are not mono shocks like the original bilsteins that came with the car and are using very old tec in their products .
Matt from Jetstream advised me that unless you go mono shock it really is a backward step.
The new GAZ shocks are the Mono tube design (single piece tube) They are called Gaz Mono, in case your concerned.
Gaz mono with 600 front & 700 rear new springs works well on setting number 8 of 16 clicks. I believe this is similar to the standard M400 setup and stiffer than the standard M12.

jamie g

516 posts

148 months

Tuesday 13th September 2016
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are M400 springs and shocks still available?

andygtt

8,279 posts

196 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
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I was going to swop out my protechs to the expensive ohlins or BAD stuff (had wifal approval and everything) as it was starting to feel tired and soft.... I went to jetstream and Dave changed the springs on my protechs to better quality eihach ones and it transformed the car. Despite him knowing I had the £3k burning a hole in my pocket for the suspension he recommended I didn't change based on how it rode and handled.

The problem with the protechs is setup, people simply don't get it right. The recommended settings are knowhere near what I ran on mine when I had the protechs springs .... Mines not bouncy and is massively better controlled than stock.

A step back from Gaz or stock they defiantly are not


Jarcy

1,182 posts

207 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
quotequote all
andygtt said:
The problem with the protechs is setup, people simply don't get it right. The recommended settings are knowhere near what I ran on mine when I had the protechs springs .... Mines not bouncy and is massively better controlled than stock.

A step back from Gaz or stock they defiantly are not
I went from Protechs to Gaz (on Jetstream's advice) and it's a huge step forward.
We're all different, and enjoy different setup as it can be a personal thing.
However anyone who went in my car with the Protechs commented how bouncy it was. I tried every setting on the standard road springs. Even full on hard for track use it was still bouncing. I guess it sort of hit a resonant frequency compared to the wheel base. The problem was the fronts. I expect that those who elected for the track setup with stiffer front shocks, didn't experience the problem. So, changing the front springs on the Protechs may be all that's required to make them behave.

The Gaz shocks worked straight out of the box. As another posted commented, I set mine to 8 for road use and it feels great. Of course I whack it up to 16 for track.

Adrian W

11,069 posts

160 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
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Have a read of this and try to understand exactly what is going on.

http://www.smithees-racetech.com.au/performancefac...

It isn't all about stiffness, interestingly enough when I set my M400 up it was spot on 3HZ, which tends to confirm that Lee Noble knew exactly what he was doing.

andygtt

8,279 posts

196 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
quotequote all
Jarcy said:
I went from Protechs to Gaz (on Jetstream's advice) and it's a huge step forward.
Its a step forward because they are set up right on your car, Gaz are single adjustable I believe so the rebound can't be changed making it easy to set up.... they probably have a better spring and rates (I don't like or run the standard Protech springs), they are a fit and forget option with adjustable damping.

Jetstream don't like the Protechs, I went there with them telling me that and I wanted to upgrade/change... they tried different springs until it handled very sweetly and said I had nothing to gain changing to Gaz or even the £3k BAD stuff, and I was pushing to upgrade. But Dave was right.

I agree suspension is a personal choice, but the only time my car was choppy was when I first fitted them Protechs and drove it without setting it up... then it bounced all over the place, I spent ages setting it up in the garage and from then its never once felt choppy or bouncy.

TuxMan

8,953 posts

170 months

Thursday 15th September 2016
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Suspension is such a personal thing and to try and please everybody is very difficult , the std 600 series Protechs are set up for Road use , the damping rating on the 600 series can cope with up too 1000lb springs .
Ultima use Protech 600 series units with 400lb front springs , our std Noble front springs are 475 , for Road use they allow a certain amount of weight transfer under braking and acceleration and a supple ride which is the way Lee designed it , In my opinion 600 lb front springs are too stiff for road use although I'm sure they will be an improvement on track .
Anybody who would like to try stiffer springs I have a various selection at home including 600 lb .
I'm not sure why Matt at Jetstream dislikes the Protechs Although I am aware he prefers a stiffer setup and runs M400 type spring rates on his own car , Dave at Jetstream has worked hard with me to find the Ultimate race setup for my own car and Jetstream can supply these springs although they are totally unsuitable for road use .