RE: Noble lets the M12 and M400 go
Discussion
Leoparky said:
Who will believe that Farboud (Chris Marsh) will launch the car in a few weeks.....it has been in the concept stage for years, no wonder Arash got rid of the company. The M12 is an old design and it was based on the Ascari Ecosse which was designed by Lee when he was with Klaas Zwart and before they had the massive bust up (flowers beds at East Midland Airport beware!!!). The problem is that without product either available for supply or being used by the motoring press the company will die (Ascari is testament to that!!). It is all well and good getting a royalty from the states but the cars were ever only sold in very limited numbers due to the US lesgislation, (which is why the engines were installed in the US). The new car is distinctive in appearance (not always a good thing) and the quality I saw at Goodwood and the Motorshow is just not good enough. Being wealthy or having a wealthy backer is sometimes just not enough.....look at TVR and Ascari. Bristol seem the exception to the rule.
I agree M14/5/6/7 is still not properly styled, interior is still very low rent. I guess the manufacturing is finally coming to the UK. Jimmy Price controlled the pricing of M12 and the licencing to the US is a natural move to keep the M12 going ( or have I got it wrong that the tooling has moved to the US - then JP has dumped the production) . I can understand that Lee has been frustrated in not having enough margin to sustain his business hence M14/5/6/7.
M14/15/16 will succeed when it goes to production as Lee realises that he must control manufacturing in the UK and that he needs to be in the 80k market sector to make it sustainable and controlable. The new car can survive just on performance and Top Gear reputation, but it really could do with a professional stylist sorting it out. This is hardly likely to happen based on the massive investment in tooling for the body and the control of the company by Lee is who wouldnt want his masterpiece tampered with.
Arash hasent got rid of the company and has licenced the design and still has a financial interest (based on what was said at last pistonheads interview) and I think the decision was a good one as the 40-50k is very tough. CM has the ability to mass produce where Arash was only able to initiate the concept so sustainability under the new management of the company is a good solution and stronger future.
HT
Edited by Honkytonk on Friday 23 February 00:14
mg511 said:
honkytonk said:
m12_nathan said:
joust said:
Why the surprise? The M12 and M400 are a 7 year old design, 5 year old production run.
It would be like Porsche still making 993's....
J
It would be like Porsche still making 993's....
J
Except it would be like them making 996's, which they only stopped doing when they made a replacement.
Just seems odd that we now have a car company that you cannot buy a car from, no different to Farboud etc.
Boll**ks - you can order a Farboud GTS today as it is coming out in a few weeks time.
Are you sure? I've just looked at their website and it looks like they haven't updated it for years, it still talks about full production in 2005. I live a couple of miles from the factory and I've still never seen one.
Wow - worth a trip to see them then if you live up the road. Would love to know what they are doing, but I have heard that the car is close to launch - matter of weeks. Bit dissappointing about the web site keeping us in the dark I agree.
HT
DanH said:
M400 NBL said:
and my one major concern is that most are bought to be raced.
I'd refute that. There really aren't that many Noble owners who regularly attend track days.
I hope you're right. I only assumed that by NOT buying a Porsche or Ferrari that owners bought them to drive them...hard, something you can't do on many British roads.
In this article they only refger to them being South African
[url]www.thecarconnection.com/Auto_News/Daily_Auto_News/Noble_M12_Coming_to_U_S_.S173.A11953.html[/url]
[url]www.thecarconnection.com/Auto_News/Daily_Auto_News/Noble_M12_Coming_to_U_S_.S173.A11953.html[/url]
Slightly off topic but is Arash a car company? (it could be a persons name for I know) and if so were they the ones that got sued by Porsche for making a car that looked too similar to the GT1? I saw this car below at Le Mans, didn't have a clue what it was, found out, now have forgotten again and it's irritating me that I can't remember. Arash sounds familiar though.
What ever it was it was absolutely
.
What ever it was it was absolutely
.Digga said:
[quote=yak293]gizard,
congratulations on the gt3 in may,just been out for a 25 mile dry
b road blast in mine, all i can say is you are going to love this car!
the sound between 6-8+,000 rpm as it hunkers down and blasts out of corners is hi-fidelity.
quote]
Staffordshire. Was it you who thoughtlessly distracted me from trying to earn a living as you blasted down the Rugeley eastern by-pass then? Sounded superb.
FWIW, I took a de-tour past Noble (being nosy) on the way to taking the Griff to Mallory Park last week, and the only 'interesting' machinery in evidence there were two 996s...
congratulations on the gt3 in may,just been out for a 25 mile dry
b road blast in mine, all i can say is you are going to love this car!
the sound between 6-8+,000 rpm as it hunkers down and blasts out of corners is hi-fidelity.
quote]
Staffordshire. Was it you who thoughtlessly distracted me from trying to earn a living as you blasted down the Rugeley eastern by-pass then? Sounded superb.
FWIW, I took a de-tour past Noble (being nosy) on the way to taking the Griff to Mallory Park last week, and the only 'interesting' machinery in evidence there were two 996s...
might have been!!
if it was me I can categorically confirm I was not exceeding the speed limit!
do you have any idea of the limit on that lovely bit of straight road ??
bye the way if think we know each other!
don't work too hard
regards
yak
ps it was a person near there that told me noble had dumped the m12 last year.
mikey_p said:
Slightly off topic but is Arash a car company? (it could be a persons name for I know) and if so were they the ones that got sued by Porsche for making a car that looked too similar to the GT1? I saw this car below at Le Mans, didn't have a clue what it was, found out, now have forgotten again and it's irritating me that I can't remember. Arash sounds familiar though.
What ever it was it was absolutely.
What ever it was it was absolutely
.Arash is based near me in Cambridge.
The model above was a 1 off GT model that he made to race but never did.
The Farboud GTS was made and SVA'd and I think there were 2 or 3 road going models made before he saold the company to Chris Marsh.
The GT in your picture may not actually be road legal.
but thats another story! M400 NBL said:
DanH said:
M400 NBL said:
and my one major concern is that most are bought to be raced.
I'd refute that. There really aren't that many Noble owners who regularly attend track days.
I hope you're right. I only assumed that by NOT buying a Porsche or Ferrari that owners bought them to drive them...hard, something you can't do on many British roads.
Nah if you want to drive a car hard and don't want endless servicing, you'd buy Porsche not avoid it! That aside, my comment is more based on the fairly low attendance of Nobles on trackdays, and how few people tracked them even when it was an owners day combined with a trackday. Many of those who did were doing it for the first time too.
DanH said:
M400 NBL said:
DanH said:
M400 NBL said:
and my one major concern is that most are bought to be raced.
I'd refute that. There really aren't that many Noble owners who regularly attend track days.
I hope you're right. I only assumed that by NOT buying a Porsche or Ferrari that owners bought them to drive them...hard, something you can't do on many British roads.
Nah if you want to drive a car hard and don't want endless servicing, you'd buy Porsche not avoid it! That aside, my comment is more based on the fairly low attendance of Nobles on trackdays, and how few people tracked them even when it was an owners day combined with a trackday. Many of those who did were doing it for the first time too.
Apparent low attendance at trackdays may just reflect comparative low volume of Nobles and the burgeoning number of trackday companies. Certainly much rarer to see a Noble than a Porsche
I'm at Snet tomorrow where there are 5 Porsches (inc 997GT3RS)and 1 Noble.
If it's dry(ish) I will have alot of fun. If it's wet I'll probably get my butt kicked.
robp said:
DanH said:
M400 NBL said:
DanH said:
M400 NBL said:
and my one major concern is that most are bought to be raced.
I'd refute that. There really aren't that many Noble owners who regularly attend track days.
I hope you're right. I only assumed that by NOT buying a Porsche or Ferrari that owners bought them to drive them...hard, something you can't do on many British roads.
Nah if you want to drive a car hard and don't want endless servicing, you'd buy Porsche not avoid it! That aside, my comment is more based on the fairly low attendance of Nobles on trackdays, and how few people tracked them even when it was an owners day combined with a trackday. Many of those who did were doing it for the first time too.
Apparent low attendance at trackdays may just reflect comparative low volume of Nobles and the burgeoning number of trackday companies. Certainly much rarer to see a Noble than a Porsche
I'm at Snet tomorrow where there are 5 Porsches (inc 997GT3RS)and 1 Noble.
If it's dry(ish) I will have alot of fun. If it's wet I'll probably get my butt kicked.
You see a lot more GT3 RSs than you do Nobles. How many nobles have been sold? At the absolute max 120 996 RSs in the Uk and more than a few are in a carcoon never having moved since delivery!
Of course thats the thing. Most people don't buy cars to track them. It's one thing affording to buy a car, its another affording and having the desire to rag it round a racetrack!
They have sold production rights, but have they also sold the design rights??? Is the design still under some sort of copyright protection?? If so does it mean Noble still gets some sort of royalites for each one produced by 1G????
(sorry if this has been discussed before, i jus skimmed read throu this forum.)
(sorry if this has been discussed before, i jus skimmed read throu this forum.)
mr noble said:
mikey_p said:
Slightly off topic but is Arash a car company? (it could be a persons name for I know) and if so were they the ones that got sued by Porsche for making a car that looked too similar to the GT1? I saw this car below at Le Mans, didn't have a clue what it was, found out, now have forgotten again and it's irritating me that I can't remember. Arash sounds familiar though.
What ever it was it was absolutely.
What ever it was it was absolutely
.Arash is based near me in Cambridge.
The model above was a 1 off GT model that he made to race but never did.
The Farboud GTS was made and SVA'd and I think there were 2 or 3 road going models made before he saold the company to Chris Marsh.
The GT in your picture may not actually be road legal.
but thats another story! Ah I feel for this guy so did some research. He made this car when he was 25 years old.
Arash Farboud has licenced the IPR and badge to Farboud Sports Cars of which he is a major shareholder.(Not sold, but hey its great to make him sound like a cop out eh) He still works with Farboud Sportscars on a regular basis although he doesnt own it. Reasons due to productionisation being a larger task than he wished but public demand requested that he produced a more affordable car. Car company now a riser in global branding.
(All this info I found on Wikepeadia) My best bet is that money doesnt get results every time - Ask NS for this, but experience with Chris Marsh does.
The Farboud GT is road legal, tax disc and reg confirm. Jeez I would love to have one of these in the garage, but not sure if I could deal with the parking issues. I saw it at Lemans through the parade last year and the year before. The car also appeared at the last 2 gumball starts through london for the past two years. Currently the top trump card on top trumps. Valued at $1.8M which is slightly more expensive than Arash's Bugatti Veyron or his Carrera GT. Spoke to the Doc and apparently his GT is black. Story on the GT is that he made it and then a guy who worked with Porsche for the lemans GT1 project worked with him but they fell out as they couldnt agree ownership of the project. Blokey then got peaved and upset porsche to give him a slap on the risk, but apparently they couldnt give a toss as he only made one for himself, loyal customer da da da di daa daa etc etc
7 prototype GTS cars produced as far as I am aware. 5 are owned by Arash (Spoken to TheDoc to confirm)1 is kept in Bath at FSC
www.arashcars.com - new car and company that Arash has created to make a supercar which many feel is an Enzo rip off. Not sure why he is doing it, but seems as though he is having fun with a few chums.
Sorry back to topic on how Noble M15/6/7/8/ is going to kick arse. when they find a stylist.
HT
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