Discussion
Don’t worry too much, my work colleagues Model 3 got savaged while parked by a food delivery van and they did an ace job repairing it.
Took a couple of months though as some of the parts weren’t available. He got a courtesy car with free supercharging while it was waiting for the bits to arrive though.
I suspect as with many body shops it’s all down to how good the individuals are working there. Which service centre is it going to?
Took a couple of months though as some of the parts weren’t available. He got a courtesy car with free supercharging while it was waiting for the bits to arrive though.
I suspect as with many body shops it’s all down to how good the individuals are working there. Which service centre is it going to?
LivLL said:
EQC is far from rubbish.
I had a EQC for two extended test drives. One for 24 hours the other 48 hours. My viewsPoor range (150-200 on a warm day). I get 300+ out of a MY
Poor space including no frunk
A dashboard that has more switches than Concord
Poor charging network. Ok that’s not Mercedes fault but it puts it at a disadvantage to Tesla
Price. Iirc they are over £70k
But it’s an opinion.
Heres Johnny said:
Its fair to say you rarely hear of people going from Tesla to EQC, but the EQC is a 4 year old model now and it wasn't class leading at the time. Thats not to say there aren't better EV's than Tesla, there are, the saving grace for many is the Supercharging network
Unlike an ICE vehicle, an EV is a package: vehicle + charging availability / network. Depending upon your use case, the the relative weights of those two factors will change. For a lot of people, the S/C network is a very heavily-weighted factor in the determination of "better".Lots of talk in the press about Tesla and another potential price drop in Europe. At the moment the trade values for a Model 3, bought in the UK in January this year, will shed 47% by January next year. Source is CAP HPI. That’s year one not 3 years!
So it doesn’t matter how much your cheap night tariff is going to be, the overall running costs of a Tesla is akin to setting fire to half of the value in pound notes as you drive it off the forecourt.. Private buyers won’t take long to wake up to this fact and vote with their feet.
They have become the Vauxhall of the EV industry. Used to be aspirational for middle manager England, but private peeps couldn’t stomach the retained values and bought a BMW, Audi or VW over time. The PCP’s just keep creeping up as the GFV’s slide down. Come to think of it, who buys new Vauxhalls anymore….
I’m trying to steal a M3 LR or preferably a MY LR from the private ads. Most owners haven’t spotted the new list price. Provide a WBAC value and chip away. The day of the used £35k 2022 MY LR is upon us.
So it doesn’t matter how much your cheap night tariff is going to be, the overall running costs of a Tesla is akin to setting fire to half of the value in pound notes as you drive it off the forecourt.. Private buyers won’t take long to wake up to this fact and vote with their feet.
They have become the Vauxhall of the EV industry. Used to be aspirational for middle manager England, but private peeps couldn’t stomach the retained values and bought a BMW, Audi or VW over time. The PCP’s just keep creeping up as the GFV’s slide down. Come to think of it, who buys new Vauxhalls anymore….
I’m trying to steal a M3 LR or preferably a MY LR from the private ads. Most owners haven’t spotted the new list price. Provide a WBAC value and chip away. The day of the used £35k 2022 MY LR is upon us.
z4RRSchris said:
i dont think anyone cares when most are leasing them with huge tax incentives.
3 MYLR popped up on my street this month, we all lease through work.
Quite.3 MYLR popped up on my street this month, we all lease through work.
The cars used value is of zero interest to me. It’s a tax efficient way to run a fantastic car.
If people are getting these cheap second hand after my lease ends then that’s great for them.
I guess the downside is that the leasing companies will price this depreciation into new deals more and more though.
Familymad said:
Lots of talk in the press about Tesla and another potential price drop in Europe. At the moment the trade values for a Model 3, bought in the UK in January this year, will shed 47% by January next year. Source is CAP HPI. That’s year one not 3 years!
So it doesn’t matter how much your cheap night tariff is going to be, the overall running costs of a Tesla is akin to setting fire to half of the value in pound notes as you drive it off the forecourt.. Private buyers won’t take long to wake up to this fact and vote with their feet.
They have become the Vauxhall of the EV industry. Used to be aspirational for middle manager England, but private peeps couldn’t stomach the retained values and bought a BMW, Audi or VW over time. The PCP’s just keep creeping up as the GFV’s slide down. Come to think of it, who buys new Vauxhalls anymore….
I’m trying to steal a M3 LR or preferably a MY LR from the private ads. Most owners haven’t spotted the new list price. Provide a WBAC value and chip away. The day of the used £35k 2022 MY LR is upon us.
It is interesting. Let's note one thing with interest: Tesla Model Y was Europe’s best-selling car In Q1 2023. Now, individual models may not mean much. But in Q1 2023, Tesla (as a brand, with for most people only 2 models) out-sold Nissan, Volvo, Seat, Mazda, MINI, etc. in Europe. Tesla almost out-sold FIAT. Tesla's Q1 2023 sales in Europe were up 58% on Q1 2022. If they kept up that rate of growth, they'd be in the top 10 within 12 months.So it doesn’t matter how much your cheap night tariff is going to be, the overall running costs of a Tesla is akin to setting fire to half of the value in pound notes as you drive it off the forecourt.. Private buyers won’t take long to wake up to this fact and vote with their feet.
They have become the Vauxhall of the EV industry. Used to be aspirational for middle manager England, but private peeps couldn’t stomach the retained values and bought a BMW, Audi or VW over time. The PCP’s just keep creeping up as the GFV’s slide down. Come to think of it, who buys new Vauxhalls anymore….
I’m trying to steal a M3 LR or preferably a MY LR from the private ads. Most owners haven’t spotted the new list price. Provide a WBAC value and chip away. The day of the used £35k 2022 MY LR is upon us.
Now obviously Tesla are nowhere near the volume of the majors, but equally those majors may share platforms, but produce a bewildering array of models - all of which cost a great deal.
In terms of EVs, Tesla had 22% of the European EV market in Q1 2023.
The economies inherent in Tesla's model are extraordinary. The TMY out-sold the VW Gold almost 2:1. The VW ID models don't even make the top 25 of models sold. The fantastic thing about Tesla is how little variation there is from vehicle to vehicle - all those options and variations other manufacturers deem critical to success are simply missing.
Tesla may be cheapening their brand. Or they may simply be taking the well-worn path of BMW and Mercedes, merely accelerated - sell as aspirational, then progressively lower the price to make the aspiration more affordable to more and more people.
Your comments about retained values on BMWs etc. are interesting. Pre-Covid, Peugeot depreciation rates, say, were as much as 70% over 3 years. PSA are doing pretty well
Some BMWs were just as bad - 4-series, I'm looking at you. The average was about a 51-58% drop over 3 years. That's what "normal" looked-like before Covid turned up. My recollection of why people swapped Vauxhalls for BMWs was that BMWs came down in price a long way relative to Vauxhalls (and Mercedes dropped enormously to chase volume), meaning that for the price of a high-end Vectra you could have a low-end 3-Series (which was smaller inside, but a bit better to drive and, although not obviously better-built, had the rosy glow of perceived premiumness). Badge snobbery was alive and well, and older BMWs and Mercs were quite special. But was a late-90s 3-series really a better car than a late-90s Vectra? No, not really. But I take my hat off to the product planning and marketing folks at BMW (and Audi especially) for turning decent cars into objects of considerable desire.Set against that backdrop, the numbers being talked about here aren't large. We've just become accustomed to some odd behaviour in the used car market over the last couple of years. For so long as factories continue to need volume in order to make economic sense, this is what we should continue to expect.
The other thing that drove BMW/Audi/Mercedes sales was the introduction of PCP.
Previously Vauxhall etc would lose 50% over 3 years, where the Germans would lose 50% over 5 years.
PCP meant you could amortise that lower depreciation into the monthly cost of ownership. Combined with lower interest rates that offset the higher initial outlay.
Previously Vauxhall etc would lose 50% over 3 years, where the Germans would lose 50% over 5 years.
PCP meant you could amortise that lower depreciation into the monthly cost of ownership. Combined with lower interest rates that offset the higher initial outlay.
brickwall said:
The other thing that drove BMW/Audi/Mercedes sales was the introduction of PCP.
Previously Vauxhall etc would lose 50% over 3 years, where the Germans would lose 50% over 5 years.
PCP meant you could amortise that lower depreciation into the monthly cost of ownership. Combined with lower interest rates that offset the higher initial outlay.
That's true. And set against that I recall Vauxhall offering not just free insurance, but a full NCB after only that one year's cover. They sold a lot of Corsas etc to people with those deals.Previously Vauxhall etc would lose 50% over 3 years, where the Germans would lose 50% over 5 years.
PCP meant you could amortise that lower depreciation into the monthly cost of ownership. Combined with lower interest rates that offset the higher initial outlay.
It should be recalled, however, that BMW et al cheapened their products a lot to bring the price into the mainstream, and then sold them on the basis of the low depreciation of their earlier (more niche, more expensive) models. It was a great strategy, but as some of us recall the product-cheapening was pretty dire for durability, reliability and - ultimately - resale of those models. But they did their job commercially, I agree
Good gen. I recall trading in lots of Fords and Vauxhalls to my uncles VW dealership and learning a new term …. “He’s upside down on this one”. The regularity at which owners would come in and owe more than the vehicle was worth before the advent of GFV’s.
The finance houses won’t do that on a Tesla. They are pricing a 3 yr MY LR at £21k leaving you to pay finance on £52990 less that and plus charges for credit. So £600-£700 a month roughly. When you can still lease a Skoda Karoq on a 9x36 with 10kpa for £251 a month, that saves a huge amount of family finance for petrol if you want a decent sized SUV.
The finance houses won’t do that on a Tesla. They are pricing a 3 yr MY LR at £21k leaving you to pay finance on £52990 less that and plus charges for credit. So £600-£700 a month roughly. When you can still lease a Skoda Karoq on a 9x36 with 10kpa for £251 a month, that saves a huge amount of family finance for petrol if you want a decent sized SUV.
As familymad says it is notable that the finance houses are not pricing in a continuation of current (low) depreciation rates. The GFVs on offer imply a return to a more “normal” curve losing 50% over 3-5 years (or worse).
Given the finance houses are in many cases tied to the manufacturers, they have an incentive to get GFVs as high as possible, to lower the monthlies and sell more cars.
It’s interesting they are not doing this, clearly willing to take the low volumes rather than the risk of sitting on a pile of cars in negative equity in 3 years time.
Given the finance houses are in many cases tied to the manufacturers, they have an incentive to get GFVs as high as possible, to lower the monthlies and sell more cars.
It’s interesting they are not doing this, clearly willing to take the low volumes rather than the risk of sitting on a pile of cars in negative equity in 3 years time.
Heres Johnny said:
Its fair to say you rarely hear of people going from Tesla to EQC, but the EQC is a 4 year old model now and it wasn't class leading at the time. Thats not to say there aren't better EV's than Tesla, there are, the saving grace for many is the Supercharging network
And the fact you can get one quickly. Ordered mine 3 weeks ago following an end of March special and it's now on the drive. I haven't even had time to get the home charger installed.Has anyone got roof bars on their MY? I'm currently looking at options since the Tesla one seems to be c.£500 which is crazy. Yakima do one that's c.£200 and I think they make the Tesla one too, but open to alternatives if anyone has any? And yes, I'm aware of the potential for cracked glass but will need the rack to take everything on holiday so will just have to be careful and use a torque wrench!
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