Model 3 UK orders.
Discussion
Mikehig said:
Interesting table and chart: thanks to those posters.
The table shows the huge advantage the EV has off the line and through the lower speeds. Thereafter things are much more even - both cars take 2.5 seconds from 40 to 70.
The torque curves on the chart explain what happens. The EV's torque starts to fall away at around 40 mph whereas the ICE car will be in the meat of its torque band by then, and will stay in it thanks to mutliple gears.
Makes me wonder what a "geared" EV could do! Clearly Porsche's decision to use a two-speed rear axle on the Taycan was taken to address this.
Some rolling-start comparisons would be interesting. I imagine the EV would have the edge in sudden acceleration from a cruise as the ICE car would have to drop a couple of gears.
Might've been mentioned already, but there's a tonne of petrol vs EVs on Car wow demonstrating this, including rolling starts, breaking and drag racesThe table shows the huge advantage the EV has off the line and through the lower speeds. Thereafter things are much more even - both cars take 2.5 seconds from 40 to 70.
The torque curves on the chart explain what happens. The EV's torque starts to fall away at around 40 mph whereas the ICE car will be in the meat of its torque band by then, and will stay in it thanks to mutliple gears.
Makes me wonder what a "geared" EV could do! Clearly Porsche's decision to use a two-speed rear axle on the Taycan was taken to address this.
Some rolling-start comparisons would be interesting. I imagine the EV would have the edge in sudden acceleration from a cruise as the ICE car would have to drop a couple of gears.
Tesla Model S v AMG GT 4 v BMW M5 v Porsche Panamera Turbo S
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I-6_H0haAw
Tesla Model 3 vs I-Pace vs e-tron vs …SUPRA?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2egdAJFjSkU
Tesla Model 3 P vs BMW M3 vs Audi RS4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFUutdqUMC4
BMW M850i vs Tesla Model 3 vs Mercedes-AMG E63 S - DRAG RACE, ROLLING RACE & BRAKE TEST
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4gO_T3xIcY
Edited by hixster on Wednesday 23 October 14:02
Edited by hixster on Wednesday 23 October 14:02
jjwilde said:
Zcd1 said:
The Model3 could be declared the greatest car of all time by almost every single motoring journalist and you'd still get people on here saying it's an absolute piece of garbage / worst car ever / panel gaps / nowhere to charge / batteries will fail in 2 years / it's a scam etc. nothing will change their mind. It's like Apple vs. Windows.TX.
Terminator X said:
All these nutters who have opposing opinions!
TX.
The problem seems to be that owners/press who have spent time with the car are essentially all very impressed with it. The vast majority of the opposing opinions are from people with no experience of it seemingly commenting based on a set of standard stereotypes/heard down the pub anecdotes?TX.
Fair comment?
hixster said:
Mikehig said:
Interesting table and chart: thanks to those posters.
The table shows the huge advantage the EV has off the line and through the lower speeds. Thereafter things are much more even - both cars take 2.5 seconds from 40 to 70.
The torque curves on the chart explain what happens. The EV's torque starts to fall away at around 40 mph whereas the ICE car will be in the meat of its torque band by then, and will stay in it thanks to mutliple gears.
Makes me wonder what a "geared" EV could do! Clearly Porsche's decision to use a two-speed rear axle on the Taycan was taken to address this.
Some rolling-start comparisons would be interesting. I imagine the EV would have the edge in sudden acceleration from a cruise as the ICE car would have to drop a couple of gears.
Might've been mentioned already, but there's a tonne of petrol vs EVs on Car wow demonstrating this, including rolling starts, breaking and drag racesThe table shows the huge advantage the EV has off the line and through the lower speeds. Thereafter things are much more even - both cars take 2.5 seconds from 40 to 70.
The torque curves on the chart explain what happens. The EV's torque starts to fall away at around 40 mph whereas the ICE car will be in the meat of its torque band by then, and will stay in it thanks to mutliple gears.
Makes me wonder what a "geared" EV could do! Clearly Porsche's decision to use a two-speed rear axle on the Taycan was taken to address this.
Some rolling-start comparisons would be interesting. I imagine the EV would have the edge in sudden acceleration from a cruise as the ICE car would have to drop a couple of gears.
Tesla Model S v AMG GT 4 v BMW M5 v Porsche Panamera Turbo S
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I-6_H0haAw
Tesla Model 3 vs I-Pace vs e-tron vs …SUPRA?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2egdAJFjSkU
Tesla Model 3 P vs BMW M3 vs Audi RS4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFUutdqUMC4
BMW M850i vs Tesla Model 3 vs Mercedes-AMG E63 S - DRAG RACE, ROLLING RACE & BRAKE TEST
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4gO_T3xIcY
Edited by hixster on Wednesday 23 October 14:02
Edited by hixster on Wednesday 23 October 14:02
Thats not to say an EV always being in the right gear isn't an advantage
At least he's doing less videos with his chavvy Lambo owning supposed social media blogging mate of his. That was a real low for them.
Heres Johnny said:
I've complained to carwow about their 50-70 test - its supposed to simulate an overtake, whenever I've wanted to overtake in an ICE I've manually kicked down to get the car into the right gear in anticipation as its clear the first second on all ICE cars will be waiting for the kickdown.
Thats not to say an EV always being in the right gear isn't an advantage
At least he's doing less videos with his chavvy Lambo owning supposed social media blogging mate of his. That was a real low for them.
Hold the paddle on a lot of modern cars and it selects the best lowest gear vs your speed.Thats not to say an EV always being in the right gear isn't an advantage
At least he's doing less videos with his chavvy Lambo owning supposed social media blogging mate of his. That was a real low for them.
TX.
SWoll said:
The problem seems to be that owners/press who have spent time with the car are essentially all very impressed with it. The vast majority of the opposing opinions are from people with no experience of it seemingly commenting based on a set of standard stereotypes/heard down the pub anecdotes?
Fair comment?
Yes!Fair comment?
SWoll said:
Terminator X said:
All these nutters who have opposing opinions!
TX.
The problem seems to be that owners/press who have spent time with the car are essentially all very impressed with it. The vast majority of the opposing opinions are from people with no experience of it seemingly commenting based on a set of standard stereotypes/heard down the pub anecdotes?TX.
Fair comment?
I've got a M3P which is epic, but I try not to be too Jehovah about it.
MOBB said:
I think it is fair comment, but from the other side there is a lot of (almost) hysteria from Tesla fans and I just think it gets people backs up.
I've got a M3P which is epic, but I try not to be too Jehovah about it.
im hoping most people will refuse to go EV so i can continue to get cheap running costs and hopefully use bus lanes etc I've got a M3P which is epic, but I try not to be too Jehovah about it.
Dave Hedgehog said:
MOBB said:
I think it is fair comment, but from the other side there is a lot of (almost) hysteria from Tesla fans and I just think it gets people backs up.
I've got a M3P which is epic, but I try not to be too Jehovah about it.
im hoping most people will refuse to go EV so i can continue to get cheap running costs and hopefully use bus lanes etc I've got a M3P which is epic, but I try not to be too Jehovah about it.
lets be clear, they are s
t. dont get one MOBB said:
SWoll said:
Terminator X said:
All these nutters who have opposing opinions!
TX.
The problem seems to be that owners/press who have spent time with the car are essentially all very impressed with it. The vast majority of the opposing opinions are from people with no experience of it seemingly commenting based on a set of standard stereotypes/heard down the pub anecdotes?TX.
Fair comment?
I've got a M3P which is epic, but I try not to be too Jehovah about it.
Its also not the best at everything, and thats ok, nothing is the best at everything. There's no need to get defensive or dismiss the competition if its beaten at something which is another annoying trait. The drag race type stuff is comical - as soon as Tesla lost a handling test the immediate response was "its the tyres", something they never mention when Tesla is winning. Tesla put a special edition, stripped out car round the ring and its how Teslas are (partly true as it broke down and couldn't complete a full lap - I jest), and start quoting phrases like "smack down", Porsche do it quicker in standard trim and the excuses come flooding out. The top gear video when the really dodgy handling M4 does a lap only to be pipped by the M3 on the second attempt as it span out on the first - faster.. yes.. more predictable handling, well the evidence would suggest not. Does it matter?
Yes, the truth is as usual somewhere in the middle.
The fact it is mentioned in the same breath as the German cars is impressive imo, as a road car up to 8/10ths its a great achievement.
But if you want a "thrash it round corners" type car, visceral feeling from redline/gearchanges, awesome noise, track days, it doesn't cut it, but nor is it supposed to.
IMO its a brilliant 340i/C43/S4 alternative that leaves them for dust up to 80mph and offers something a bit different, but with some flaws not acceptable to some buyers of that kind of car.
The fact it is mentioned in the same breath as the German cars is impressive imo, as a road car up to 8/10ths its a great achievement.
But if you want a "thrash it round corners" type car, visceral feeling from redline/gearchanges, awesome noise, track days, it doesn't cut it, but nor is it supposed to.
IMO its a brilliant 340i/C43/S4 alternative that leaves them for dust up to 80mph and offers something a bit different, but with some flaws not acceptable to some buyers of that kind of car.
Zealots are a fact of life in anything really. I have a few bits of Apple kit, like them, but I can see Apple's flaws whereas some would defend them killing first borns in the street somehow.
I think you just have to ignore them, wherever they might turn up.
What I find disappointing and apprehensive about Tesla is actually the stuff that ought to be one of the easiest things for them - QC and attention to detail. I'm not expecting Porsche level interior build, but I also don't expect to have to turn up with a printout checklist of things I need to make sure I check before I drive away, stuff like paint defects or panel alignment. I'm not talking about going over the car with a magnifying glass either.
Unfortunately people seem to think it's perfectly fine to balls this aspect of the car up, because "they're really busy right now", "they're disruptive", "they're still refining their processes", "it's not really a £45k car, it's a £25k car with a £20k battery" or some other minimalising crap. That's great, but as a customer if I'm paying £45k (£60k for the spec I'm interested in) I want a level of fit and finish above perfunctory, or just plain wrong. It's not too much to ask.
I think you just have to ignore them, wherever they might turn up.
What I find disappointing and apprehensive about Tesla is actually the stuff that ought to be one of the easiest things for them - QC and attention to detail. I'm not expecting Porsche level interior build, but I also don't expect to have to turn up with a printout checklist of things I need to make sure I check before I drive away, stuff like paint defects or panel alignment. I'm not talking about going over the car with a magnifying glass either.
Unfortunately people seem to think it's perfectly fine to balls this aspect of the car up, because "they're really busy right now", "they're disruptive", "they're still refining their processes", "it's not really a £45k car, it's a £25k car with a £20k battery" or some other minimalising crap. That's great, but as a customer if I'm paying £45k (£60k for the spec I'm interested in) I want a level of fit and finish above perfunctory, or just plain wrong. It's not too much to ask.
Edited by Durzel on Wednesday 23 October 16:13
MOBB said:
But if you want a "thrash it round corners" type car, visceral feeling from redline/gearchanges, awesome noise, track days, it doesn't cut it, but nor is it supposed to.
Take away the redline/gearchanges/noise parts and it a Model 3 cuts it very well. Some of you here need to get one out on a track and you'll seeit for yourselves.
FurtiveFreddy said:
MOBB said:
But if you want a "thrash it round corners" type car, visceral feeling from redline/gearchanges, awesome noise, track days, it doesn't cut it, but nor is it supposed to.
Take away the redline/gearchanges/noise parts and it a Model 3 cuts it very well. Some of you here need to get one out on a track and you'll seeit for yourselves.
Some of us have taken an MS on high speed cross country no speed limit hack like on the isle of man and even though you can't balls out drive it everywhere, its still short of breath half way round
But then why does it matter. 9/10 v 10/10s when everyday driving you don't really get to even 4/10 of what these can do, But you typify the point of being bothered and trying to prove a point when there is no point to prove.
Durzel said:
Zealots are a fact of life in anything really. I have a few bits of Apple kit, like them, but I can see Apple's flaws whereas some would defend them killing first borns in the street somehow.
I think you just have to ignore them, wherever they might turn up.
What I find disappointing and apprehensive about Tesla is actually the stuff that ought to be one of the easiest things for them - QC and attention to detail. I'm not expecting Porsche level interior build, but I also don't expect to have to turn up with a printout checklist of things I need to make sure I check before I drive away, stuff like paint defects or panel alignment. I'm not talking about going over the car with a magnifying glass either.
Unfortunately people seem to think it's perfectly fine to balls this aspect of the car up, because "they're really busy right now", "they're disruptive", "they're still refining their processes", "it's not really a £45k car, it's a £25k car with a £20k battery" or some other minimalising crap. That's great, but as a customer if I'm paying £45k (£60k for the spec I'm interested in) I want a level of fit and finish above perfunctory, or just plain wrong. It's not too much to ask.
People are willing to cut them alot of slack as the ownership proposition is different to anything that came before.I think you just have to ignore them, wherever they might turn up.
What I find disappointing and apprehensive about Tesla is actually the stuff that ought to be one of the easiest things for them - QC and attention to detail. I'm not expecting Porsche level interior build, but I also don't expect to have to turn up with a printout checklist of things I need to make sure I check before I drive away, stuff like paint defects or panel alignment. I'm not talking about going over the car with a magnifying glass either.
Unfortunately people seem to think it's perfectly fine to balls this aspect of the car up, because "they're really busy right now", "they're disruptive", "they're still refining their processes", "it's not really a £45k car, it's a £25k car with a £20k battery" or some other minimalising crap. That's great, but as a customer if I'm paying £45k (£60k for the spec I'm interested in) I want a level of fit and finish above perfunctory, or just plain wrong. It's not too much to ask.
Edited by Durzel on Wednesday 23 October 16:13
Essentially people are willing to sacrifice for it.
Heres Johnny said:
...
Some of us have taken an MS on high speed cross country no speed limit hack like on the isle of man and even though you can't balls out drive it everywhere, its still short of breath half way round...
The Model S and Model 3 driving experiences are vastly different, so why would you use the Model S as a reference point in a Model 3 discussion?Some of us have taken an MS on high speed cross country no speed limit hack like on the isle of man and even though you can't balls out drive it everywhere, its still short of breath half way round...
May as well say that because a 7 series isn't good on a racetrack, an M3 isn't either. Silly.
Zcd1 said:
Heres Johnny said:
...
Some of us have taken an MS on high speed cross country no speed limit hack like on the isle of man and even though you can't balls out drive it everywhere, its still short of breath half way round...
The Model S and Model 3 driving experiences are vastly different, so why would you use the Model S as a reference point in a Model 3 discussion?Some of us have taken an MS on high speed cross country no speed limit hack like on the isle of man and even though you can't balls out drive it everywhere, its still short of breath half way round...
May as well say that because a 7 series isn't good on a racetrack, an M3 isn't either. Silly.
Zcd1 said:
Heres Johnny said:
...
Some of us have taken an MS on high speed cross country no speed limit hack like on the isle of man and even though you can't balls out drive it everywhere, its still short of breath half way round...
The Model S and Model 3 driving experiences are vastly different, so why would you use the Model S as a reference point in a Model 3 discussion?Some of us have taken an MS on high speed cross country no speed limit hack like on the isle of man and even though you can't balls out drive it everywhere, its still short of breath half way round...
May as well say that because a 7 series isn't good on a racetrack, an M3 isn't either. Silly.
Tesla aren’t sending a modified M3 around the ring
Lights touch paper...
Edited by Heres Johnny on Wednesday 23 October 18:23
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