Model 3 UK orders.

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p1stonhead said:

Is anyone really buying a 40k car to save money?

The mistake people make is trying to justify an EV based on swapping it for a cheap run around, in that situation the numbers simply don't work.

However if your looking to spend £40/50/60K+ on a combustion car with some half decent performance, which isn't the general public but is what many people on this forum do, than buying an EV is almost a no brainer. Why buy something that costs more to run and often slower if the initial purchases cost is the same?

EVs make the most sense if your after performance, which is why I don't get the anti EV brigade on this forum, surely if your on a website called pistonheads, than performance is a key part of car ownership.

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SWoll said:

Including depreciation/finance costs?

Edited by SWoll on Sunday 13th October 16:41

I would say if your buying a brand new M3 or AMG the deprecation will be far higher than a Model 3.

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David87 said:

Have to pick the kids up from school, pack everything in and get going by 4pm, hopefully. Will report back with how it goes. Hoping Autopilot will take the strain.

The car, AP, and Superchargers will be fine, but leaving at 4pm with kids.....I hope your not any where near the car park that is the M25!

We are going down to Cardiff later, much shorter trip at 160 miles, but not leaving till 7pm, cannot see the point of leaving at 5pm to sit in traffic for an extra hour around the M6/M42 for no reason.

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David87 said:

Oi, stop laughing at me. I'm sure it'll be fine.

Hope you made it, horrific rain for 80% of our trip, normally don't need to stop and charged but I ended up adding 10kWh at Hoopwood as I rather not get to my destination with 0% SOC.

Rain and cold, the two worst combination for EVs.

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Cold and traffic jams don't kill range that much, its the rain/wind that kills range.

I've just asked this question on the Model 3 forum since the range on our 75D X drops to about 150 miles in heavy rain.

Looks like LR AWD Model 3 has a range of about 200 miles in similar conditions.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-3-ra...

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Dave Hedgehog said:

Any loss does not feel noticeable in the real world although i am normally 50%+ SoC

There needs to be some really checking here rather than peeing contest.

In the real world on public roads I hardly ever use full throttle in our 75D X, even at low SoC.

If you want to be a nutter and drive at 3 figure speeds everywhere than sooner rather than later either your get banned or your be in a ditch.

Even on the Mways given the number of 'smart' M ways been introduced even going over 70mph on a regular basis is asking for NIPs, especially around the M25.

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I genuinely never thought I would see the day when on a website called 'PistonHeads' where one of the lead stories is about a 815 BHP McLaren people would be putting a negative spin on a manufacture providing a FREE power upgrade to owners.

Some of you guys really need to find better things to stress about in life!!

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Durzel said:

Apocryphal but I’ve lost 30-40 miles range in this current cold weather, on an i3 120Ah (42kW battery) which also doesn’t have a heat pump.

I guess ICE cars also burn more fuel in winter running heaters etc, but don’t the engines run more economical with colder air?

EDIT: Scratch that, it’s -1C out and I’ve lost 60 odd miles.

You lost range in your i3!! WTF there is another i3 owner on here who claims to be able to do 190 miles on a charge in current weather, even when doing WOT runs for fun......You must be driving it wrong

Edited by gangzoom on Monday 2nd December 04:15

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Our X is currently showing 130 miles max range going from 100-0%. Used 52% to do 67 miles today (started the day at 80%), driving like you would any other car, with multiple trips in the day, again like how most people use their cars.



Am not entirely why the consumption is so high, with the cabin set to 23 C, the heater pulls less than 1KW to maintain cabin temperature. Even assuming 1KW pull over a 3hr road trip that's less than 5% battery usage even on our 75D X with 65kWh usable



'Pre heating' is also pretty taxing on the car, our car was pulling 5KW+ when preheating this morning. If your not in the E7 time frame, that's not a insignificant amount of electricity usage you're adding to the bill.



The Korean cars (and one person's i3), offer winter efficiency no Tesla can get close to. A Kona I recon will go further at 70mph in sub zero temps than a LR Model 3 despite a smaller battery.

Edited by gangzoom on Monday 2nd December 19:34

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RobDickinson said:

Theres a temp range where heat pumps have a definite advantage and this tends to be UK winter temps (roughly -5 to 10 degrees)

I don't buy that, our old Leaf had heat pump,

The drop in range between summer and winter use was just as noticeable, if not more so. From a best of over 6 miles per kWh to a rather useless 3 miles per kWh. The main difference was the use to the heater, I personally am not one of those people who enjoy sitting in a freezing cold car.





The car data also suggests once up to temp the cabin heater uses less than 1KW to maintain 23 degrees inside when its just above zero outside. A heat pump would reduce that to <500W, over a 3 hr trip that difference it would make to SOC would be about 2%, which is essentially the difference between doing a WOT run up to 70mph+ versus a gentle build up of speed.

Edited by gangzoom on Monday 2nd December 20:20

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RobDickinson said:

Uh so it has an advantage?

An advantage of 2% on our 65kWh usable car, on a 100D car that would be 1% difference in SOC over 3hr, that's barely worth the effort of thinking about adding a heat pump let alone installing one.

You cannot blame the crazy winter bad consumption Tesla's have on just a heat pump. The Kona/eNero has far better designed drivetrains interns of efficiency and it really shows in winter, assuming the Kona can achieve more range just because its has a heat pump is just not correct. The iPace also has a heat pump, look how great that car is when it comes to winter range.

For pure drivetrain efficiency, Hyundai/Kia are leagues ahead of everyone, Tesla included.

Edited by gangzoom on Monday 2nd December 20:26

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Zcd1 said:

Which data is the basis for this statement?

According to testing by the US agency "Consumer Reports", the opposite is actually true:

Anyone here getting 310 miles range from any Model 3? Or even 250 miles?

Where as most real world reports suggest the eNero will do 200 miles+ all day long.

I have a feeling Tesla have 'gamed' the EPA tests in the same way as VAG did emissions testing and JLR the WTLP for the iPace.

All these 'official' test really are pointless, the reality is if the Model 3 really did do 300 miles in real world use the last few pages of this thread woudlnt have appeared.

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SWoll said:

I keep giving you the evidence, if you'd like to challenge that please do so as happy to provide whatever details you request.

What evidence? In one post you imply your i3 will do 180 miles non stop according to the cars dash data, in another post you admit you had to stop and charge on a 150 mile trip to add 30 mile of range. So what is the range of your i3, 180 mile or 120 miles?

EVs are limited in winter, am not sure why so many EV owners are in denial?

I've had an EV since 2015, I will never buy another combustion car, but equally am not going to tell people EVs have no issues in real world use.

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Dave Hedgehog said:

I could get 300 on my M3 cruising at a sensible m-way speed

Some of you guys really are living on different planet, good luck to the EV loving madness but am out.

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squirdan said:

all this pre-heating, scheduled departures, planning every journey to the Nth degree around chargers , going on different websites looking at accurate consumption data, for me life's a bit too short.

Exactly how 99% of the car buying public will view a £50k+ purchase.

How many people have bought a £50k+ before and go in it ready for a weekend road trip and thought, hold on let me turn the cabin heating off, drive at 65mph, and better look up some places to charge just in case.....

I don't mind doing that once in a while, most people on this forum might not, but most normal people would expect a £50k+ car to function like any other £50k+ car regardless if it's an EV or not.

Pretending EVs 'just work' fools no one but a few of the very devoted.

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Heres Johnny said:

Personally i wish they just showed kwh available - but then they'd get all the questions about "why does my 90 only show 78kwh when full?" (the answer to which is because we lied to you but thats another matter)

If your getting 78kWh usable on your 90 your doing well....Our 75D which isn't even a 'bad' pack has 64kWh usable at 31k.

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SWoll said:

The vast majority of the car buying public rarely travel more than 30 miles per day so not really an issue for them as EV's will 'just work' 99.9% of the time.

Would you get on a plane with a 99.9% chance of not crashing? That's roughly one crash a day out of an airport like Heathrow.

A tool that's only good 99.9% time might as well be useless depending on what you use if for.

Edited by gangzoom on Wednesday 4th December 14:14

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Dave Hedgehog said:

99.999% i would

Thats a crash rate of 1 plane every 3 months from Heathrow, am not sure I would take a flight based on those numbers. Actual airline crash rates seems to be about 0.00000003%.

This demonstrates well the pointless figure of the 'average' driver doing 30 miles a day nonsense. What you need is a product that work XX% of the time. What that figure should be depends on usage/circumstances.

Most people I think would agree a £50k+ car should meet their journey needs 100% of the time.

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SWoll said:

Anyway, you carry on believing whatever you want. My new car turned up today so better things to do with my time than argue with you.

The funny thing is I believe what I believe from real life experience of owning an EV since 2015, and doing 55k EV miles since including going road trips to Scotland in November, family holiday in France etc.

If you notice those of us on here who have owned EV for longer than a few months all generally have the same view, EVs are great, and Tesla's are fantastic cars, but anyone who thinks these things are ready for mass adoption is living in fantasy land.

Enjoy your Model 3, its a fantastic car but here is what the future holds for EV road trips....oh this particular Supercharger site has 40 stalls, so be interesting to see how UK sites will cope in future.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/31274/more-teslas-on...

We are holding on to our combustion car because frankly life is too short to waste sitting at a Supercharger queue.

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Sambucket said:

The good old days

EVs are something like 0.05% of the fleet. Does all this mass adoption stuff really matter at the moment?

What can I say, there's nothing quite like real life experience. Seeing the other thread on 2 minute fuel ups in a hydrogen car and than the frankly ridiculous (but every believable) situation of a over run 40 stall Tesla SC puts things into perspective.

I'll be the first to say trying EV was always an experiment for me, and actually the longer I own an EV the more am sure they aren't the full replacement for combustion cars.

Toyota may have got it right all along.