Model 3 UK orders.

[gangzoom]

Sambucket said:

It’s early days. We have years to build infrastructure before the fleet hits 1%. In the mean time there are more than enough people for whom EV is the better choice, to keep things ticking over.

If an EV doesn’t work for you, then sell your EV. Not sure of the drama.

Not everyone needs any infrastructure at all. I used a supercharger once to test it but doubt I’ll ever use one again. I never drive over 150 miles. P3d is my perfect car. 100% of the time.

Why would I sell the best car I have owned??

It seems like some EV owners just cannot admit EVs have limitations versus combustion cars.

I love our EV, it does far more miles than our combustion car, but for our usage there are times - about once a month, taking the combustion car is simply far easier.

[gangzoom]

SWoll said:

You're obsessed with 'road trips'. Try looking past the end of your own nose and you'll realise that you are in a very small minority of people who do them on anything like a regular basis.

That's hilarious, so your advice for someone looking at EVs is to never go on road trips???

You do realise how ridiculous that sounds to most people looking to buy cars costing from £40k+.

Its like Apple trying to pretend the iPhone 4 was fine, as no one uses a smart phone to make phone calls, so who cares about the aerial .

EVs are fine for road trips, but they are not as hassle free as a combustion car. We don't mind, I even did a 150 miles trip in a Leaf in winter that took 5hr including charging time. But plenty of people might not want the extra hassle, especially when EVs cost so much more to buy.

There is no point not telling potentially buyers about this, its much better people know the facts rather than find out later when they are stuck with a product that might not suit their needs. Its called telling the truth.

Edited by gangzoom on Thursday 5th December 06:16

[gangzoom]

SWoll said:

All you're doing is constantly stating the obvious, that if you do regular long distance trips an EV is going to be an inconvenience compared to ICE and I completely agree. .

Am glad you agree, but its not obvious, not when you have WLTP ranges now going into 300 miles but come winter real life range is half that unless you drive around with little heating and slow down.

What manufactures should actually state isn't the ideal max range, but the minimal range the expect the cars to get with the heater running, at 70mph, in the rain. That way people can decide for them selves if the car has enough range for their needs.

Most of manfactuers do offer real life examples of this already, but they rarely advertise these figures. The reality is for users what provides much more information is the minimal range these cars can achieve not the theoretical max range.

[gangzoom]

SWoll said:

Just look at the average annual mileage in the UK according to MOT tests (approx 7,500 miles). Then take the average commute distance driven of 20 miles per day. 253 working days per year = 5k miles, remaining 2500 miles/112 weekend and bank holidays = 22 miles per day.

Of course there will be the odd 50-100 mile trip thrown in and day's without any use but 250-300 mile trips on a regular basis?

Edited by SWoll on Thursday 5th December 10:48

But what's the SD of that mean figure?

Our combustion car only does 5k miles per year but every month is currently doing a 200-300 mile in a day work trip.

Trying to do the same trips in any EV would be a major pain in comparison, despite the below 'average' figure.

Nissan used the same logic as you when promoting the original 24kWh Leaf, and predicted sales massive sales on the basis most people don't drive 100 miles a day....History showed how wrong that logic turned out to be.

https://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/01/officially-off...

[gangzoom]

For all UK owners, keep an eye on the underside trim cover for the rear motor. It appears Tesla was been cheap and designed the cover to be made from a composite material that breaks down when its wet. Which sadly here in the UK we see alot.

There is a whole discussion on this over at TMC, but if ripped it seems to expose to the main HV cable connecting the battery to the motor-orange bit. If you can see it than any road debris under the car could get to it.

Lots of electricity, wet roads, exposed cables, you get an idea how things might go wrong.

Tesla appear to be aware of the issue, but currently its not even a warranty repair - owners fault for driving on wet roads. A new part is apparently in the works, but owners told to use Gorilla tape to keep the trim in place - I don't know to laugh or cry!!

Any UK owners who experience this on their cars needs to keep pressuring Tesla, this is pretty unacceptable design flaw on a £40k+ car in 2019.



https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/ripped-und...

Edited by gangzoom on Sunday 15th December 07:17

[gangzoom]

Dave Hedgehog said:

Car started developing a steering noise about a week ago, it’s got very loud quickly

https://imgur.com/gallery/3TlLX1O

That's an upper control arm failure, Google Tesla and control arm failure and you'll see its a common fault on the S/X.

Had it our X recently, it'll keep on getting worse to the point where even a tiny bump in the road will cause that noise to appear even if you don't move the steering wheel.

I called up Tesla Recovery on a Sunday afternoon when ours got that bad, and I explained I wasn't happy to drive the car with my family in till its sorted, they sent a tow truck to picked up the car that afternoon and it was repaired/ready to collect Tuesday Lunchtime. I was also offered a loan car from Enterprise delivered to my driveway that Sunday.

Another example of awful parts design/quality control, but actually surprisingly good customer service.

From a cost/bottom line view its much cheaper for Tesla to just stop trying to save money on bad design/parts rather than having to sort things out post delivery with all the additional customer support costs.

[gangzoom]

Dave Hedgehog said:

Earliest appointment 20 Jan

I really woudlnt put up waiting another month for that to be sorted. If you do have an accident/issue, Tesla have a track record of blaming the owner. They have tried to blame a owner for kerbing the wheel as a cause of lower control arm snapping in the past.

https://www.businessinsider.com/aladdin-stars-prob...

Edited by gangzoom on Tuesday 17th December 09:50

[gangzoom]

Dave Hedgehog said:

the S and X 'issues' are irrelevant unless they use common parts with the 3

how do you prove the wheel came off first or was taken off because of an accident

Hold on, so your car (I assume) if making a horrible creaking noise from the steering wheel just like mine (and plenty of others do), and your first response to some genuine advice is to put your head in the sand and pretend everything is OK??!!

Surely even as a Tesla fanboy you see the madness in that kind of knee jerk reaction??

Our X is the MOST UNRELIABLE car I have ever owned, its been to the service centre more times I have fingers. The last time I was there - only a few weeks ago, there was just as many Model 3s parked up waiting for work as S/Xs.

Tesla makes great cars, but they haven't got a clue about car building. Our Lexus is the almost exact opposite, not that great car but built by people who know how to put a car together.

The inability of some Tesla owners to take criticism really is madness.

Go and get Tesla to fix your car (if is yours) now via the emergency road side assistance, or wait for another 4 weeks and hope a wheel doesn't fall off......For most car owners I would have thought the best course of action is pretty clear?

Edited by gangzoom on Tuesday 17th December 10:50

[gangzoom]

Dave Hedgehog said:

There is no support to ring, not sure what else i can do, theres no point emailing support as they do not answer

Call road side assistance, 0162 845 0660.

Option 1 I think is road side assistance, have your Vin ready, and explain how quickly the noise has come on, it will only get worse not better.

You should be offered an loan car from Enterprise or similar whilst your car is flatbed to a service centre.

Tesla knows the suspension control arms are an issue, they have parts in stock.

[gangzoom]

Sambucket said:

Why is at all so binary. Johnny and gang come across as very patronising .... surely the majority of owners are mature enough to be able to hold both critical and positive opinions at the same time.

Its called sharing experience not trying to patronise anyone.

The steering noise is the perfect example, would you drive around in any other brand new car with that kind of noise every time you turn the wheel for 4 weeks??

Even if you bought that as a used car you would be perfectly in your right to take it back to the dealership and ask them to sort it out ASAP.

Tesla have processes in place to deal with these matters. You can contact service centres still, get urgent work done, but Tesla would prefer new owners are bamboozled into thinking what they see is what they get.

Its all common sense stuff, which some how Tesla often gets away with and shouldn't.

Forget its a Tesla for one second, would anyone here put up with a car making that kind of creaking noise when turning the steering wheel for 4 weeks - just for a diagnostic appointment. Let alone on a brand new £40k+ car?

But because its a Tesla, and the phone App says its OK to wait 4 weeks thats fine??.......Come on guys get real.

Edited by gangzoom on Tuesday 17th December 11:18

[gangzoom]

Dave Hedgehog said:

im used to waiting, took 6 months to get merc to agree to the new gearbox in my A45 despite it being a known issue (unable to select reverse on a cold start) and they had developed an updated gearbox for the problem, they then had the car in the workshop for 4 months whilst they fixed it ...

i had to wait 7 months for my replacement RS3 as well

Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Tuesday 17th December 11:26

If you want to continue and make excuses for Tesla go for it, enjoy the next 4 weeks of worrying when the wheels will fall off or suspension collapse.

Our Tesla is the most unreliable car I have ever owned by a long long way, its also the best car I have owned ever.

The two aren't mutually exclusive, Tesla need do better in lots of areas and they will, but like all car manufacturers they need customers to push them, not just pretend everything is perfect.

Edited by gangzoom on Tuesday 17th December 11:35

[gangzoom]

Dave Hedgehog said:

its about realistic expectations, in my experience all cars have problems and all manufacturers drag their heals when sorting them

Absolutely, but not highlighting issues doesn't do Tesla any favours, they need to learn how to build cars better, and if us customers don't push them who is?

As for the whole waiting 4 weeks for an diagnostic appointment via a phone app when the every time you turn the wheel, that's just BS.

As I've already said (and experienced my self), the customer service in these situations is actually very good and quick. However denying there is no problem or waiting 4 weeks for a service appointment is 'fine' is just been blind to very real improvements Tesla need to make.

[gangzoom]

So if this true and turns up next year we I might end up with another Model 3 order after all - 100kWh pack at 3 miles per kWh worst case situation is 300 miles range, job done .

https://insideevs.com/news/389234/100-kwh-battery-...

Edited by gangzoom on Saturday 21st December 18:25

[gangzoom]

modeller said:

Indeed. Wonder what rate this could charge at!

So worst case in winter, at 70mph+, around 3 miles per kWh is what people are getting.

V3 SC is what 250KW, lets assume 100kWh pack can stay at 250KW for a decent chunk of SOC, so if your arriving with 10% 12.5 miles per minute in winter? So a 5 minute stop would add 60 miles+, when coupled with a true 300 miles range in winter, that is enough range for us to ditch the combustion car with no compromises.

We have to wait to see the figures when it comes out, but great work by Tesla.

Also makes you wonder how big the battery will be in the Plaid S/X, if they can fit 100kWh into a 3, 130+kWh must be possible in a S/X!!

[gangzoom]

SWoll said:

I'm more interested in the possibility of a Ludicrous mode for the current M3P. I wonder if it'll be a chargeable upgrade as per the acceleration boost for the LR?

Ludicrous is essentially more peak battery power output, the current 3 is likely power limited by Software, but a 100kWh pack will increase power output regardless.

Am not sure any of these cars needs to be faster, more range would be a much bigger selling point for most people- like my self.

If Tesla can get a 150kWh pack into a S/X than your looking a near combustion car levels of true range, and will in effect remove any reason for anyone to buy a combustion over an EV - pricing aside.

A side effect of having a 150kWh pack would be sub 2 second 0-60 times.

Edited by gangzoom on Sunday 22 December 04:09

[gangzoom]

Durzel said:

Back in 2017 Elon said the 3 wheelbase couldn’t take a 100kWh battery, but now it can? Has battery density really improved that much?

Roadster 2.0 needs nearly a 200kWh pack to hit the performance figures quoted.

The Roadster is Model 3 size.

Tesla have some proper next gen battery tech in development, its price that will be decider on when its introduced not the tech.

[gangzoom]

^I probably disagree with every point, from performance to residuals. But we can agree to disagree, and it is 3 sleeps to xmas .

[gangzoom]

Durzel said:

Don’t know what effect that will have on the current P+ spec but I can’t see how it would be good, since the defining characteristic of that model is the performance (otherwise you might as well buy a LR).

Which is why you should buy any 'P' Teslas.

The 100kWh P Model 3 will no doubt cost even more than the current P+. It have virtually zero impact on residuals for the SR+. The 'best value' Tesla's have always been the base cars.

Musk is also about to show his hand on something far more important than 0-60 times or range- Full Self Driving.

IF he can pull of anything close to Level 5 autonomy a £40k SR+ will become the bargain of the decade.

For example today am having to find time off work to pick up my inlaws from the station, wouldn't it be amazing if I could send the car, pick them up than drop off at home, than have the car come back to the work car park? That is the tech which truly has almost unlimited value!

Edited by gangzoom on Monday 23 December 04:41

[gangzoom]

SWoll said:

And couldn't you in-laws just get an Uber occasionally? A hell of a lot cheaper than paying £6k for FSD on the Model 3 that's for sure..

Ofcourse it is, but the ramifications or FSD is massive from the way goods are delivered, the way we 'commute', and plenty of people will come up innovative ways to capitalise on it.

From the car point of view IF, and its a big IF, Tesla can deliver FSD on these cars than all current owners really do have a non depreciating product on their hands.

I think its likely the 'preview' will be nothing more than another video, but everyone also said landing reusable rock boosters was impossible till SpaceX made it routine so we will see.

Don't forget Tesla have promised FSD on all the cars dating back to Dec 2016 cars, far more exciting than any kind of infotainment upgrade, FSD hardware/software upgrades is what's really potential exciting about these cars.

[gangzoom]

Durzel said:

I really don’t understand how intelligent people can earnestly make the argument that full self driving is within the grasp of current cars.

Suggesting that a current Model 3 is going to up to the job, and is therefore a safe bet to buy on that basis, is just wrong imo.

I see asking price for FSD as a pure gamble/punt, for the price of a couple of MacBook Pros you get to potentially access some of the most cutting edge neural network software, its not that much of a price to pay.

I personally don't think any of the cars built today can achieve FSD, but quite happy to wait and see .