Model 3 UK orders.
Discussion
Thanks Jim for coming back, I'm not trying to push discussion off the forum. I still have my test drive for Tuesday (after they made a balls up of my appointment last week),
I genuinely have an interest in these cars and owning one at some point but the blinkered, aggressively protective views of some Tesla owner pushed onto the forums makes it really hard to get the real picture on if they're upper their game or not.
Everything I read away from those slightly fanatical posts doesn't make good reading. The Tesla forums are littered with horror stories from owners too.
I'm not new to this and £40k is a lot of money, I've owner many brands in the past who've fallen well short of what is expected and don't want to be bitten again. This is what leads me to question and probe when people say everything is fantastic and it's all nothing to worry about.
I'm not convinced so far.
I genuinely have an interest in these cars and owning one at some point but the blinkered, aggressively protective views of some Tesla owner pushed onto the forums makes it really hard to get the real picture on if they're upper their game or not.
Everything I read away from those slightly fanatical posts doesn't make good reading. The Tesla forums are littered with horror stories from owners too.
I'm not new to this and £40k is a lot of money, I've owner many brands in the past who've fallen well short of what is expected and don't want to be bitten again. This is what leads me to question and probe when people say everything is fantastic and it's all nothing to worry about.
I'm not convinced so far.
Smiljan said:
Thanks Jim for coming back, I'm not trying to push discussion off the forum. I still have my test drive for Tuesday (after they made a balls up of my appointment last week),
I genuinely have an interest in these cars and owning one at some point but the blinkered, aggressively protective views of some Tesla owner pushed onto the forums makes it really hard to get the real picture on if they're upper their game or not.
Everything I read away from those slightly fanatical posts doesn't make good reading. The Tesla forums are littered with horror stories from owners too.
I'm not new to this and £40k is a lot of money, I've owner many brands in the past who've fallen well short of what is expected and don't want to be bitten again. This is what leads me to question and probe when people say everything is fantastic and it's all nothing to worry about.
I'm not convinced so far.
Not sure if that's directed at me or not? Sorry if I came across as blinkered and aggressive. It was not my point.I genuinely have an interest in these cars and owning one at some point but the blinkered, aggressively protective views of some Tesla owner pushed onto the forums makes it really hard to get the real picture on if they're upper their game or not.
Everything I read away from those slightly fanatical posts doesn't make good reading. The Tesla forums are littered with horror stories from owners too.
I'm not new to this and £40k is a lot of money, I've owner many brands in the past who've fallen well short of what is expected and don't want to be bitten again. This is what leads me to question and probe when people say everything is fantastic and it's all nothing to worry about.
I'm not convinced so far.
It seems that Tesla has a very polarised views and therefore has those that hate and those that love the brand - so flaws that are accepted in other OEMs are screamed at as terrible in Tesla, and visa versa.
For me, and I can only speak for myself, I only got the Model 3 because of the BIK and VAT benefits as it turns a £50k car into a £35k car (arguably) which you can't do with any other non EV car, and after 3 years of a BMW i3 we wanted something larger... No one else has come to the party sadly, other than the Jaguar iPace which was in serious contention but I just can't do the SUV thing and the Leaf, which was so nearly there.
So, sadly when there's only two cars to pick from you have to accept one of the other - being a lease, the sense of ownership isn't the same so it's easier to be laissez faire with some of the crap QA because after 3 years it'll go back to the lease co and job's a goodun.
To suggest that other OEMs are perfect does seem to be a strawman argument against Tesla, as plenty of other cars in the same price bracket have had catastrophic failures or systematic failures of major components. I recall not long ago every shouting about the costs of DPF's and how they always go wrong. As said, Tesla are far from perfect, but I can't see any other OEMs being there either over a volume?
If the PS2 was available, I'd have seriously considered it - or the ID3, but it's just taking an age for them to become available easily here sadly... I hoping in 3 years time, there's a lot more options than the handful at the moment.
Anyway, I hope that restores some balance to the argument. But try and drive one, I was pleasantly surprised and hence took a punt for 3 years (with the BIK and VAT benefits being a big help
)Edited by RemarkLima on Sunday 18th October 16:31
Thanks for that, I am still trying to get a test drive and have one booked for Tuesday morning (last weeks was a cock-up as they sent the confirmation after the appointment).
I don't benefit from BIK or company tax incentives so can't use that in my man maths. I'm just struggling to see the real state of the quality issues due to some extreme views from both sides although on the UK owners forums it seems like there are still some pretty poor cars being delivered with the expectation that owners will bring them back for bits and bobs to be fixed.
I'll let you know what I think once I've been on Tuesday, I had a Model S and the quality and build of that was excellent although obviously in a totally different price bracket.
I'd really miss having Apple Carplay as it's so convenient but a lot of owners seem to use a phone mount and get by that way instead. I didn't find the nav on the S particularly bad but it wasn't anywhere near as good as waze.
I don't benefit from BIK or company tax incentives so can't use that in my man maths. I'm just struggling to see the real state of the quality issues due to some extreme views from both sides although on the UK owners forums it seems like there are still some pretty poor cars being delivered with the expectation that owners will bring them back for bits and bobs to be fixed.
I'll let you know what I think once I've been on Tuesday, I had a Model S and the quality and build of that was excellent although obviously in a totally different price bracket.
I'd really miss having Apple Carplay as it's so convenient but a lot of owners seem to use a phone mount and get by that way instead. I didn't find the nav on the S particularly bad but it wasn't anywhere near as good as waze.
Smiljan said:
Thanks for that, I am still trying to get a test drive and have one booked for Tuesday morning (last weeks was a cock-up as they sent the confirmation after the appointment).
I don't benefit from BIK or company tax incentives so can't use that in my man maths. I'm just struggling to see the real state of the quality issues due to some extreme views from both sides although on the UK owners forums it seems like there are still some pretty poor cars being delivered with the expectation that owners will bring them back for bits and bobs to be fixed.
I'll let you know what I think once I've been on Tuesday, I had a Model S and the quality and build of that was excellent although obviously in a totally different price bracket.
I'd really miss having Apple Carplay as it's so convenient but a lot of owners seem to use a phone mount and get by that way instead. I didn't find the nav on the S particularly bad but it wasn't anywhere near as good as waze.
TBH the BIK and VAT was the only thing that swung it for us, otherwise we'd have probably stuck with an i3 or gone for a Leaf over the i-Pace... But then this whole lease thing is pretty new to us hence trying to get heads round the ongoing cost. Safe to say our other car, which is rarely used, is always going to be a cheapie, or something which has suffered the worst of the deprecation and owned. Still trying to get a Lotus Evora as the second car... Can still do the school run right? One day!I don't benefit from BIK or company tax incentives so can't use that in my man maths. I'm just struggling to see the real state of the quality issues due to some extreme views from both sides although on the UK owners forums it seems like there are still some pretty poor cars being delivered with the expectation that owners will bring them back for bits and bobs to be fixed.
I'll let you know what I think once I've been on Tuesday, I had a Model S and the quality and build of that was excellent although obviously in a totally different price bracket.
I'd really miss having Apple Carplay as it's so convenient but a lot of owners seem to use a phone mount and get by that way instead. I didn't find the nav on the S particularly bad but it wasn't anywhere near as good as waze.
The paint seems to have improved - we have the blue, which may help as it's a darker colour, and so far everything has worked fine.
Maps-wise it uses Google Maps AFAIK so thus far haven't felt the need to use anything on my phone for nav, including jaunts into central London through the morning hell of traffic. A couple of times I had my phone speaking as well and both took the same routes... Obviously YMMV
Apologies for deleting my posts and any confusion caused. I got the impression I was walking in on a fight, and didn't want to get involved!
But just to add my 2c... sounds like many of your concerns are build related, so could be checked without leaving the lot. (just don't sign before you inspect)
Recent what car survey suggests things have improved with recent 3 shipments and i would expect the refresh to be better
"What Car?, based on surveys of more than 13,000 vehicle owners, found that the Tesla Model 3 was the most reliable executive car. It had a reliability rating of 99.4%. The biggest issue, representing 5% of those who had a problem, was with interior trim."
Interior trim is something you can check before signing.
I would caution against using forums to gauge quality, due to lack of objectivity as you righty point out. However might be useful to post on facebook uk owners as I would guess volume of new buyers is highest there. TMC perhaps better for longer term opinions .Quite a few moderates on there.
demo cars are relentless punished and will not be the refresh. And finally I would warn that lazy staff will try to get you to sign off the car before inspection if they can get away with it.
But just to add my 2c... sounds like many of your concerns are build related, so could be checked without leaving the lot. (just don't sign before you inspect)
Recent what car survey suggests things have improved with recent 3 shipments and i would expect the refresh to be better
"What Car?, based on surveys of more than 13,000 vehicle owners, found that the Tesla Model 3 was the most reliable executive car. It had a reliability rating of 99.4%. The biggest issue, representing 5% of those who had a problem, was with interior trim."
Interior trim is something you can check before signing.
I would caution against using forums to gauge quality, due to lack of objectivity as you righty point out. However might be useful to post on facebook uk owners as I would guess volume of new buyers is highest there. TMC perhaps better for longer term opinions .Quite a few moderates on there.
demo cars are relentless punished and will not be the refresh. And finally I would warn that lazy staff will try to get you to sign off the car before inspection if they can get away with it.
Thanks Jim, is the demo likely to be an older one then? I also haven’t found out how long I’ll get as some folk seem to get a 15 minute run and others a few hours.
I really want to be sure it’s the right thing before progressing any further.
As for the reliability surveys I’m always dubious about their sample sizes and controls but that’s quite promising for the 3.
I really want to be sure it’s the right thing before progressing any further.
As for the reliability surveys I’m always dubious about their sample sizes and controls but that’s quite promising for the 3.
11 months in, a slightly dodgy panel gap on one side of the frunk and a piece of loose B pillar trim (i believe caused by the lease company fitting a dashcam poorly) are all there is to report problems wise.
As above if build/interior quality are big things for you then better off with a Polestar 2. If driving, tech, efficiency and charging flexibility are more your thing than it's a cracking car.
As above if build/interior quality are big things for you then better off with a Polestar 2. If driving, tech, efficiency and charging flexibility are more your thing than it's a cracking car.
RemarkLima said:
The speedo thing is weird, in as much as no one really complained about the Mini, which is much worse!
And build quality, I think it's perceived to be honest - it's pre supposed cognative bias. You've been told it's bad so look for the bad and find it.
There's some proper cheap crap on VAG cars, same as BMW and Mercs, but they've perfectly judged where to save cash. As said earlier I was amazed that the Model 3 had double wishbone suspension up front, whilst all rivals have cheaper and inferior McPherson struts.
So a lot of the cost has been in the actual engineering but buyers will not see this, just the usual touch points which is a shame in many ways.
Don't get me wrong, some of it isn't great, but most is on par I'd say... No rattles on ours. The window switch has some unclipped and sunk down and some of the sill covers needed to be reclipped with a shove but I see that you're paying for the range and the drivetrain, along with a fairly decent chassis.
Not sure the mini comparison is fair (BL Mini) as you got plenty of other clues as to how fast your were going, and in absolute terms that would not be fast. For me the lack of a central instrument cluster would be an annoyance. For a car which can go from 30 to 50 in 2 seconds in near silence I think it would be useful.And build quality, I think it's perceived to be honest - it's pre supposed cognative bias. You've been told it's bad so look for the bad and find it.
There's some proper cheap crap on VAG cars, same as BMW and Mercs, but they've perfectly judged where to save cash. As said earlier I was amazed that the Model 3 had double wishbone suspension up front, whilst all rivals have cheaper and inferior McPherson struts.
So a lot of the cost has been in the actual engineering but buyers will not see this, just the usual touch points which is a shame in many ways.
Don't get me wrong, some of it isn't great, but most is on par I'd say... No rattles on ours. The window switch has some unclipped and sunk down and some of the sill covers needed to be reclipped with a shove but I see that you're paying for the range and the drivetrain, along with a fairly decent chassis.
On build quality I would only be bothered if it cost me. If things got fixed under warrantee readily, and were cheap and available out of it then no problem, but I bet they aren't, I bet they are cripplingly expensive and difficult to get.
granada203028 said:
Not sure the mini comparison is fair (BL Mini) as you got plenty of other clues as to how fast your were going, and in absolute terms that would not be fast. For me the lack of a central instrument cluster would be an annoyance. For a car which can go from 30 to 50 in 2 seconds in near silence I think it would be useful.
On build quality I would only be bothered if it cost me. If things got fixed under warrantee readily, and were cheap and available out of it then no problem, but I bet they aren't, I bet they are cripplingly expensive and difficult to get.
The speedo thing is a non issue after a couple of days. Haven't though about it in once in months as a lot clearer and more user friendly than an analogue equivalent despite the difference in location as far as I'm concerned. No complaints from the wife either so can't be a problem..On build quality I would only be bothered if it cost me. If things got fixed under warrantee readily, and were cheap and available out of it then no problem, but I bet they aren't, I bet they are cripplingly expensive and difficult to get.
And ours does 30-50 in 1 second BTW.
granada203028 said:
Not sure the mini comparison is fair (BL Mini) as you got plenty of other clues as to how fast your were going, and in absolute terms that would not be fast. For me the lack of a central instrument cluster would be an annoyance. For a car which can go from 30 to 50 in 2 seconds in near silence I think it would be useful.
On build quality I would only be bothered if it cost me. If things got fixed under warrantee readily, and were cheap and available out of it then no problem, but I bet they aren't, I bet they are cripplingly expensive and difficult to get.
Didn't the first BMW Mini's have a central speedo? And recent ones still have something in the middle but maybe its the tacho? On build quality I would only be bothered if it cost me. If things got fixed under warrantee readily, and were cheap and available out of it then no problem, but I bet they aren't, I bet they are cripplingly expensive and difficult to get.
Anyway, as said it's really trivial to tell your speed, both from the seat of the pants and the instruments. Weirdly, on all EVs I've driven and owned I naturally stick to the speed limit a lot easier, maybe its the flat torque means that you're not dropping into power bands, maybe?
It's a 4 year warranty on the Model 3, and I'd be more concerned on the quality if it was an outright purchase! But time will tell...
ZesPak said:
SWoll said:
And ours does 30-50 in 1 second BTW.
As someone who gets kicked in the head on a near-weekly basis, dropping the accelerator to the bottom feels strangely familiar.
It's a hell of a party piece and one I don't think ICE drivers can really understand until it's been experienced. The throttle response and overtaking ability are if anything more impressive than the 0-60 time.
SWoll said:
I'm under orders to not do it without warning. After my wife thought it would be funny to catch me out with it whilst leaning forward to change the track on Spotify I know why. my neck ached for 2 days..
It's a hell of a party piece and one I don't think ICE drivers can really understand until it's been experienced. The throttle response and overtaking ability are if anything more impressive than the 0-60 time.
One trick pony basicallyIt's a hell of a party piece and one I don't think ICE drivers can really understand until it's been experienced. The throttle response and overtaking ability are if anything more impressive than the 0-60 time.
Bobtherallyfan said:
SWoll said:
I'm under orders to not do it without warning. After my wife thought it would be funny to catch me out with it whilst leaning forward to change the track on Spotify I know why. my neck ached for 2 days..
It's a hell of a party piece and one I don't think ICE drivers can really understand until it's been experienced. The throttle response and overtaking ability are if anything more impressive than the 0-60 time.
One trick pony basicallyIt's a hell of a party piece and one I don't think ICE drivers can really understand until it's been experienced. The throttle response and overtaking ability are if anything more impressive than the 0-60 time.
I still remember in my old Exige, the absolute best way to get a reaction was on the brakes, how late you could leave it was stunning :-)
Bobtherallyfan said:
SWoll said:
I'm under orders to not do it without warning. After my wife thought it would be funny to catch me out with it whilst leaning forward to change the track on Spotify I know why. my neck ached for 2 days..
It's a hell of a party piece and one I don't think ICE drivers can really understand until it's been experienced. The throttle response and overtaking ability are if anything more impressive than the 0-60 time.
One trick pony basicallyIt's a hell of a party piece and one I don't think ICE drivers can really understand until it's been experienced. The throttle response and overtaking ability are if anything more impressive than the 0-60 time.
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