Model 3 UK orders.

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SWoll said:

Happy to stick with my non FSD Evezy M3P for £799 a month with insurance, maintenance, public charging, no upfront payment and 1 month commitment. Looks more of a bargain every day.

I think its the first time I've seen a £799/month spend on a car been descried as a 'bargain' .

If I was to sell our X tomorrow for under £50K - which would make it the cheapest X on AutoTrader by around £3K, that would give me a monthly ownership figure cost around £700/month to cover 42K miles excluding insurance but including all other costs, and as much as I love our X I would never describe it as a cheap and certainly not a bargain.

If you want a bargain EV there is an ex demo MG ZS EV on Auotrader for £21K, put in a cheeky cash offer in for £19K to take it off the dealer hands tomorrow you will have one of the cheapest new EVs on sale today which will keep going for the next decade with tiny running costs.

Teslas are great, but none can be described as a 'bargain', not without ALOT of man maths regardless how you own one .

Edited by gangzoom on Thursday 2nd January 20:46

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ZesPak said:

While I agree with the premise, a friend of mine was cross shopping an M3P with a C63. He went for the C63 as it'd be a "last chance to run a V8", get it on the business and later garage queen it (fair enough).

He's spending over 1k/month in fuel alone.

So... relatively speaking...

The mean UK household income is £35k per year post tax, to spend 25% of that on any car is nuts.

We all love cars on here, hence use examples like you have given to justify spending what is actually quite a ridiculous amount of money on something totally unnecessary.

£790/month spend on any car for most UK households is a lottery win dream, not a 'bargain'.

Edited by gangzoom on Thursday 2nd January 23:32

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ZesPak said:

Being able to run a car with BMW M3 levels of performance at that price is a bargain.
Running a Model S 100D literally costs me as much as it would to run a BMW 525d.
Bargain.

Running costs are cheap, but kindly remind everyone how much the 100D cost to buy versus a 525d .

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Throttle Body said:

By the way, a Tesla Model X would cost close to £1000 per month. Now that looks really ridiculous compared with a Model 3.

I've not claimed buying a X was ever a 'bargain', quite the opposite, despite cheap running costs EVs are overpriced at present, the S/X in particular.

Disappointingly all EV prices remain high especially compared to what manufactures like Tesla was promising 5-6 years ago.

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jamoor said:

People get irrational because they're so attached to their cars emotionally wether it is an EV or ICE.

But don't forget EVs are often compared to white goods in the house, so why would any one get emotional about one .

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p1stonhead said:

What are people’s thoughts on a used S vs a 3?

Seems I can get an S for about £35k which is a bit less than a new 3, but obviously used.

Is the S ‘more’ of a car? Never bought new before so buying used doesn’t bother me in the slightest.

It depends on what you want, what your usage pattern is, and if you're bothered about having the newest and latest stuff.

The S is a large hatchback, think Mondeo size interns of boot capacity, the 3 is substantially smaller essentially a 3 series size saloon.
When I owned a 3 series there was plenty of time we had to use my wife 5 door Civic due to lack of cargo space etc, and that was before we had a kid to look after.

The 3 has much newer tech than a £35K S both interms of drive train/battery and infotainment. Though that is relative, I recently had a loaner 2015 Model S and to be quite honest it still felt more futuristic/advanced top spec E class loaner I had a few month before, and the drivetrain is still ultra smooth especially compared to the rough XC60 loaner.

The fact I had so many loaners also tells another factor to consider with any Tesla, a brand new car is still under warranty so you can still rely on Tesla to bail you out with loaners when things go wrong but a used S you will have to sort thing out your self, both interns of time and finding alternative transport when the car is in for repairs. Having said that once the 'known' issues are sorted on these cars most of the time they are fairly reliable.

Deprecation on the S is now fairy stable, they seem to be hovering around £30K, given a brand new Kia/Hyundai EV is now approaching £35K I doubt S prices will fall much below £25K over the next 12 months, used prices on a new £40K SR+ Model 3 is still an unknown but I suspect prices will be quite stable especially for the SR+ Models.

Personally we're now waiting for a used 100D S to become 'affordable' to run along side the X - the cheapest used one though is still nearly £60K which far too much to pay for a second car role. Next year when Tesla introduce a 100kWh pack into the 3 that may change things, but even than I cannot see a brand new 100kWh pack Model 3 been much less than £50-55K which is still crazy money to pay for a commuter car.

Luckily we are in no rush to get a second EV, so more than happy to sit tight for another few years till the 100D S reaches sub £40K mark.

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cossey said:

I am just not sure what else should go on the list too.

EQC has got really good reviews and seems to be by far the most refined EV, though its more costly than a P Model 3.

iPace I believe can be had with a decent discount, they are starting to appear for sub £50k for a light used demo, so similar cost to an AWD 3, certainly better value than a S/X.

Edited by gangzoom on Saturday 4th January 18:56

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Equilibrium25 said:

The single Tesla I have driven was not especially refined. The Cayenne S, RRS, Disco V6 are all more refined overall than the model X. Vibration was a particularly notable feature of the X I drove.

Luckily no one in the UK is forced to buy anything they don't want. If you don't like Tesla there are over 300 iPaces for sales right now, there is the eTron, EQC, and Taycan. You're spoilt for choice.

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Equilibrium25 said:

Model 3 or Model Y is the front runner for replacing my wife’s car. Whatever it is will definitely be electric. However good Teslas are, your attitude just makes me think less of the owners. Shame.

If you found the noise level in a X unacceptable than you are not going to be happy with a 3, its much worse than a X even when running on smaller/narrower wheels.

If you are looking at a higher spec 3 or Y than it really makes sense to try and see if you can get a deal on the stupid amount of iPaces that seem to be lying around forecourts unsold. With the latest Jaguar software the range is better (it may not matter anyways), with SE specs been advertised for just over £50K you can probably get one for under that if you are a serious buyer. I have to admit am keeping one eye on used prices as a car for my wife, still bit too high at the moment but once they hit the right side of £40K it will become tempting - Though the iPace objectively isn't that much less noisy than a X .

[gangzoom]

NHS salary sacrifice will effect pension pay out, the calculator below helps to work out the numbers.

If you are over the £40k per year tax free pension contribution limit than this might help you reduce the tax bill. I was over by £2k last year, if am over again this year than I might be 'forced' to do some kind of salary sacrifice ....

https://www.benefitseveryone.co.uk/salary-sacrific...

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jjwilde said:

I'd be amazed if Tesla can keep up with the BIK demand, the NHS are offering the Performance as a car at a crazy low price. I'd expect the delays to be 10+ months by March.

£513/month for the P, 10k per year, 36 month agreement. No up front cost, includes insurance for 2 people, servicing, and tax.

Amount taken from gross salary is £1103/month.

Kia Niro is £348/month same options.

Shame aren't ready for a new car, very cheap new motoring!

[gangzoom]

May be with a different supplier, cheapest EV I can see is an instock i3 for £260/month doing 5k per year, 36 month.

Some really cheap EVs, depending on pensions situation might make sense selling the Lexus and going one of these deals.

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Zoon said:

So your salary is reduced £1103 but it's costing £513?

Depends on your tax situation, gross salary reduction is £1103 before tax, but the net take home pay reduction is alot less as you are not paying income tax/NI/pensions contribution on that amount.

Ultimately its still a lease deal though so at the end of 3 year having paid out £18k plus reduced your pension you still have nothing to show for it.

Only makes sense to me if it helps with the £40k annual tax free pension growth limit. Even than in theory any tax bill from going over that limit will be repaid by NHS England.

[gangzoom]

SWoll said:

That £18k is still significantly less than the expected depreciation if you handed over £50k+ of your own cash to buy one outright though?

One is a rental and the other is owning, am sure you know the difference. But you are right £50k+ is a big amount of money to waste on a second car, and the NHS salary sacrifice may be alot cheaper than anything else but for me is equally a stupid amount of money to waste.

The car the rental will replace costs £200/year to service, £400/year to insure, and £500/year to refuel, that's £91/month, or 36% the cost of even the cheape i3 rental. Add in the fact in 3 years time the current car will still be going strong (sub 50k miles is nothing for a Lexus), and remain just as cheap to run, whilst if we had a rental we would be looking around crossing fingers for a good deal.....The numbers simply don't work.

The main attraction of salary sacrifice of me is the potential to reduce pension tax burden and/or marginal tax, that situation will become more clear later this year as well as my own earning potential going forwards. If renting a car gets me out of a tax bill than I will bite you can be sure of that, as either way the cash is going to some else.

Edited by gangzoom on Saturday 25th January 06:23

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covmutley said:

Obviously 2nd hand is cheaper but you need to add the cost of depreciation. In what I assume, based on mileage, is a newish Lexus ite going to be something like £200 month.

That closes the gap a lot. Now add in the tax savings and it must be getting very close to very attractive

The tax savings are already built into the NHS lease prices, but it doesn't show the longterm cost on pensions reduction, which isn't an issue if you rent for just 1-2 years, but if you end up in a rental cycle for year after year it will have a significant impact on the pension value. The NHS isn't offering these 'cheaper' deals out of the good will for the employees, it's a very effective way to reduce the organisations pension/NI commitments.

The IS was bought for £34K in 2015 new, lets assume its worth £9K in 2023 - which is about right given current 2013 car prices that's the equivalent of £260/month in deprecation, and on running costs and its £360/month for all in cost. Still far cheaper than a Model 3 even on a NHS lease deal.

The biggest killer of the rental though is what happens after 2023, the IS is our 2nd car, it only does 5K a year, given its rock solid reliability, on going cheap running costs there is very little if any reason to sell it. So after another 3 years the total cost of ownership will drop even more, where as with a rental come 2023 we will be needing to fund another new agreement or another car.

The NHS deals will makes sense to us if it helps with an potential tax bill related to the whole pensions mess, the government is making more details clear in the budget this year, if the budget causes the numbers not to stack up from the tax/pension point of view than I suspect pretty much ever single NHS employee in the higher tax bracket will be jumping on the salary sacrifice band wagon!! At the moment though it does't make sense to commit to any salary sacrifice scheme, not until we know exactly the situation with the pensions tax issue.

Edited by gangzoom on Saturday 25th January 09:01

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jjwilde said:

I'd be amazed if Tesla can keep up with the BIK demand, the NHS are offering the Performance as a car at a crazy low price. I'd expect the delays to be 10+ months by March.

My figures may be wrong but I can see why the NHS organisations are able to offer what seems like cheap deals up front.

A P Model 3 is a gross annual salary reduction of about £1000/month.

This translates to £570 yearly reduction in pension pay out for the NHS.

The NHS pension has inflation linked growth, call it 3%.

Over 20 years therefore, based on 3% growth per year, that translates to a total reduction of £15k in pension pay out for the NHS per year of deal, or around £45k for a 3 year lease deal.

In addition the employee has paid out £18kish in present day cash in rental costs over the term. So in effect when you take into account pension pay out savings for the NHS and rental income, after just 3 years the NHS/rental company have absorbed the initial purchases cost of the car! So they can now sell the car at auction after 3 years and what ever they get back is pure profit.

Add in NI reduction costs for the NHS organisation, and its quite obvious why now NHS organisations are so keen to push salary sacrifice schemes!!

My figures might be wrong, and trying to visualise money now by taking into future inflation may not be correct, but I was always taught there is no such thing as a free lunch, and these cheap NHS deals certainly are not a free lunch for employees they first appear to be.

Edited by gangzoom on Sunday 26th January 04:40

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Tophatron said:

As noted, this includes the £3,500 grant, so adding it back on gives £56,490.

So anyone who's bought any £50k+ Tesla since April 2017 has just got a £1.4k reduction in road tax bill, whilst a brand new version of their car has gone up in price by £3.5k.

Reisdual value on these are cars will be high for a while.

[gangzoom]

RobDickinson said:

1 - dont know they seem pretty robust but older white seats have stained. Is denim still a thing?

White seats are fantastic, I wear jeans but not all that much, however our car is the family wagon, my daughter is in it nearly every day and has done both number 1 and 2 in the car/getting it on the seat at various points in her life!! She also has no problems climbing into the passenger seat from the back these days, often without taking her shoes/boots off!!

But life is too short to clean cars constantly but I do an bi-annual proper clean inside with the child seat out, and I happened to do it today. I know there anxiety is about how well Tesla build quality lasts the test of time, but am not too sure there is much to be worried for the interior based on how our family wagon looking after 3 years and 36K miles.

Edited by gangzoom on Friday 10th July 18:38

Edited by gangzoom on Friday 10th July 18:44

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Otispunkmeyer said:

And, out of interest part II... Does anyone have any feedback about the M3 with car-seats and buggies? In particularly rear-facing car seats, which seem to gobble up more room that they ought to.

Its no better or worse than any other saloon, and if you do the nursey drop every day your soon realise why everyone else is in a SUV .

We swapped a S order to an X after trying to fit a rear facing seat into a S. You will be able to do it but taller cars with wider door openings are simply easier.

But kids do grow up quickly.

Edited by gangzoom on Thursday 23 July 04:48

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Otispunkmeyer said:

I too definitely do not want an SUV. They're not necessary. Many of them don't even have any more space on offer, so its just a hatch back on pointless stilts!

They aren't necessary in the same way a 5 bed detached house isn't necessary but most families wouldn't mind having more space.

Now that am use to the space both for driver and passengers, along with higher driving position I cannot see not self NOT having one as a daily driver.

As for space don't forget the 3 isn't a hatchback its a saloon, try doing the skip run in any saloon and your struggle.

The Y is without doubt the best family car Tesla makes, both for value and function, it'll be in the UK some time in 2021. It'll give you almost as much cargo/people space as a X, for a much cheaper price and better efficiency.

I wouldn't swap our X for a 3, but a Y maybe, though am now use to power doors so anything that involves having to physically open a door my self just seems a bit uncivilised.

Edited by gangzoom on Thursday 23 July 20:23