"They've gone to Plaid"

[ntiz]

SWoll said:

Unlucky. You almost managed Tesla Bingo in one post, just missed out on mentioning "white goods" and "fanbois".

Never mind though, now you're here it'll be good to hear more about your personal experiences of driving Tesla's and EV's in general as I'm sure it'll be far more interesting than the usual hackneyed posts we get from people just parroting what they've read on the internet..

Looks like he has aTaycan so has experience and clearly not anti.

You are allowed to have negative opinions.

[Smiljan]

They're planning on doing another separate presentation event on the updates in the next few weeks but from the various sites it seems the Long range and Plaid retain the same form factor battery cells as before with the Plaid+ to get the newer battery cells.

They've spent a lot of money and effort ensuring performance runs are repeatable without quickly overheating so they've obviously got some lap record goals in mind for the Plaid+

I'm starting to wonder why they'd ever do a roadster given the performance claims of this thing.

[DMZ]

Cool. 1,000bhp is a good round number.

I’m not sure I’m that bothered with repeatability but no harm in it from a reliability point of view.

Is there any word on the weight?

[Smiljan]

2200 kg for the Plaid, a bit less for long range. No figure for the Plaid+

[dvs_dave]

DMZ said:

Cool. 1,000bhp is a good round number.

I’m not sure I’m that bothered with repeatability but no harm in it from a reliability point of view.

Is there any word on the weight?

Of course, in practice it's a totally useless feature. But as the Taycan can do it, Tesla obviously has to now as well, even though it takes a lot of effort, engineering and expense to achieve.

Only 500+ mile range though...useless for all those folks that absolutely have to have an ability do an unplanned non-stop Land's End to John o Groats run on a cold wet winter's night to rescue an elderly parent that's fallen and can't get up.

[off_again]

dvs_dave said:

Of course, in practice it's a totally useless feature. But as the Taycan can do it, Tesla obviously has to now as well, even though it takes a lot of effort, engineering and expense to achieve.

Only 500+ mile range though...useless for all those folks that absolutely have to have an ability do an unplanned non-stop Land's End to John o Groats run on a cold wet winter's night to rescue an elderly parent that's fallen and can't get up.

I agree. 1/4 mile runs are fun for a while, but being in the middle of winter is a reminder that its broadly a useless feature and something that a lot of people dont really care about. The range thing is a great marketing thing, but again, in reality, having the ability to 'top up' your car at home deals with most of these issues. Not many people just, on a whim, go on a 500 mile drive, so can plan around the range. Bigger is better, obviously, but it just means there is less concern, easier management and takes away the need for some of the public charging network. Which is odd, because the Tesla supercharger network is so good! A friend has had a Model S since 2014 when it could do 250 only. His son was in university in LA while he lived near SF, couldnt do it on a single charge obviously. But superchargers made it easy and did it many times. Would it fundamentally change his life to be able to do SF to LA without stopping? Yeah, not really. Charging network fills the gaps in range and availability. But if a car can do 300, 400 or 500 miles, its an edge case at best. Being able to get to public charging (and at a good speed) is the critical part.

[granada203028]

500 miles range in good conditions still means only 250, after not being fully charged to preserve life, cold, wet conditions, some degradation with age.

0 - 60 is really tricky sub 2 sec for a road car with normal tires, surface and weight distribution. It must be close to pulling a wheelie so the front motor is severely traction limited so the back has to do all the 1000 BHP.

1kBHP doesn't sound as good as 1 Mega Watt (1340BHP) so still some development to go

[Smiljan]

I’d agree longer range tends to me more capacity which means you can charge at higher speed for longer.

Also means in bad weather in winter the range will still be excellent.

Just because it can do 500 miles full to empty doesn’t mean that’s what people will buy it for, There seem to be a lot of EV commentators who never leave their local area and don’t understand how many other people use their cars.

Range clearly matters to customers else they wouldn’t do it.

There’s a real difference between an early adopter adapting their life and enjoying planning charging stops and a normal person who doesn’t want to think about it.

Edited by Smiljan on Thursday 28th January 22:40

[ZesPak]

granada203028 said:

500 miles range in good conditions still means only 250, after not being fully charged to preserve life, cold, wet conditions, some degradation with age.

Don't forget a headwind and uphill!

[Smiljan]

Through 10 foot of snow

[JonnyVTEC]

ntiz said:

I am a little confused the long range and Plaid show range is 400 miles which is the same as before?

But the Plaid plus is over 500 miles? Can’t find anything about a bigger battery? If that’s real I could do a U turn and go back to Tesla.

2022 for Plaid+ so I’m assume that’s when they plan to shift to 4680 cells rather than the model S 18650s

[jjwilde]

Smiljan said:

Through 10 foot of snow

Pulling your fictional boat.

[ZesPak]

Smiljan said:

There seem to be a lot of EV commentators who never leave their local area and don’t understand how many other people use their cars.

Ok there's still people who can't charge at home, I'll grant you that. But who really claims they need to be able to do 400 miles in one go without stopping or it's a show stopper for them? The main problem with this car is the price rather than range though. Charge rate will possibly be absurd as well.

Smiljan said:

Range clearly matters to customers else they wouldn’t do it.

Well... like megapixels? Or GB HDD in Medion computers?
People don't want an EV, they want faster and more frugal internal combustion engines!

Edited by ZesPak on Thursday 28th January 22:57

[Kawasicki]

Plaid+

1100bhp
200mph
140k €

https://www.autobild.de/artikel/tesla-model-s-face...

Edited by Kawasicki on Thursday 28th January 23:01

[Leon R]

Is it possible to limit the maximum performance of an EV to extract more range?

[ZesPak]

Leon R said:

Is it possible to limit the maximum performance of an EV to extract more range?

Yes, funnily enough the accelerator pedal isn't a binary switch .

Other than that, current Model S' have a "chill" driving mode which does limit performance and accelerator response.

[ntiz]

Range does matter to quite a few people who buy this kind of car. Big powerful car you can put through your company cheap.

Tend to be company owners who have meetings to get to sometime under time pressure. amongst my customers and suppliers they all own Panamera, big Audi saloons/estates etc. They don’t blink about driving from Croatia, Germany, Netherlands to meet me in places like Budapest. I know it seems extreme but there are more people than you realise. I have done it in a 90d and 100d and found on the motorway getting on with it range ended up around the 200 mark on a good day. The 500 miles will be totally fictional on a long run at speed but the way I think of it is in theory my Tesla should 350 miles and I get around 160-200 so theoretical 500 will mean 300 miles no matter what.

Which is the number I have had in my head as the tipping point I could go back and really will be the answer for pretty much everyone. I could get to my house in Switzerland in 2 charges one of them at the euro tunnel.

[Leon R]

ZesPak said:

Leon R said:

Is it possible to limit the maximum performance of an EV to extract more range?

Yes, funnily enough the accelerator pedal isn't a binary switch .

Other than that, current Model S' have a "chill" driving mode which does limit performance and accelerator response.

Yeah not really what I was asking. Perhaps Max Torque will be along later.

[ZesPak]

ntiz said:

Tend to be company owners who have meetings to get to sometime under time pressure. amongst my customers and suppliers they all own Panamera, big Audi saloons/estates etc. They don’t blink about driving from Croatia, Germany, Netherlands to meet me in places like Budapest. I know it seems extreme but there are more people than you realise.

There's probably less than you think.
Seriously though, on good chargers these are cars that can add well over 300 miles of range in twenty minutes on a good charger. That's 20 minutes for 4 hours of driving. They'd have to stop an hour in total for 12 hours of driving...
I hope their Panamera's are diesels btw.

ntiz said:

I have done it in a 90d and 100d and found on the motorway getting on with it range ended up around the 200 mark on a good day.

TMS 90d and 100d?

As a TMS 100D owner I find it VERY hard to believe you can empty the battery in 200 miles.

Uphill, in freezing cold in the alps, I didn't manage to get it empty in 250 miles.

[ntiz]

ZesPak said:

TMS 90d and 100d?

As a TMS 100D owner I find it VERY hard to believe you can empty the battery in 200 miles.

Uphill, in freezing cold in the alps, I didn't manage to get it empty in 250 miles.

See this is what I find odd some people seem to do really well but me and my dad have never managed anything like that. I had a 100d on loan had to do 210 miles in the rain 90% battery to start sat nav immediately put a stop in. A short one admittedly but we were understandably disappointed set the cruise to 85.

The Panamera is a Turbo. but he is very wealthy guy.

Edited by ntiz on Thursday 28th January 23:50