"They've gone to Plaid"

[ZesPak]

ntiz said:

A short one admittedly but we were understandably disappointed set the cruise to 85.

I have to admit I never ran it for 200 miles @100mph+.

ntiz said:

The Panamera is a Turbo. but he is very wealthy guy.

Sure he is. And he doesn't mind filling up every <250 miles on his cross-Europe runs

Edited by ZesPak on Thursday 28th January 23:55

[ntiz]

ZesPak said:

ntiz said:

A short one admittedly but we were understandably disappointed set the cruise to 85.

I have to admit I never ran it for 200 miles @100mph+.

I got 120 miles when I did that. You should see the range when reading 155 on the autobahn. Has to be done once just to see if it could, not that I doubted.

[AB]

SWoll said:

AB said:

It's such a boring looking car and that steering wheel certainly wouldn't work for me! As for the screens

They're also slated for their build quality and driving dynamics i.e. they are a computer which happens to drive around rather that being a car first and foremost.

Unlucky. You almost managed Tesla Bingo in one post, just missed out on mentioning "white goods" and "fanbois".

Never mind though, now you're here it'll be good to hear more about your personal experiences of driving Tesla's and EV's in general as I'm sure it'll be far more interesting than the usual hackneyed posts we get from people just parroting what they've read on the internet..

Defensive much? Plenty of experience with EV's including Model S and 3 and I'm totally sold on EV's in general so don't worry about that.

Headline figures are all well and good but in reality it's great to show your mates or have a quick 'watch this' moment (then wait for it to cool down so you can do it again) but day to day I stick to my opinion that any Tesla I've driven has just been a bit... boring. I'd have bought one otherwise, if it was down to what I'd read on the internet.

Wonderful machines for slogging up and down motorways, but dynamically flawed.

[ZesPak]

ntiz said:

I got 120 miles when I did that. You should see the range when reading 155 on the autobahn. Has to be done once just to see if it could, not that I doubted.

Where do you get this readout? This doesn't sound like a Tesla readout at all... the regular readout doesn't adjust itself to your immediate driving style afaik.

AB said:

Headline figures are all well and good but in reality it's great to show your mates or have a quick 'watch this' moment (then wait for it to cool down so you can do it again)

As opposed to the other 2sec cars that can do it time and time again?

AB said:

Wonderful machines for slogging up and down motorways, but dynamically flawed.

I was under the impression that the TM3 was generally received as a very well driving car, even on track?

Edited by ZesPak on Friday 29th January 00:02

[AB]

ZesPak said:

AB said:

Headline figures are all well and good but in reality it's great to show your mates or have a quick 'watch this' moment (then wait for it to cool down so you can do it again)

As opposed to the other 2sec cars that can do it time and time again?

AB said:

Wonderful machines for slogging up and down motorways, but dynamically flawed.

I was under the impression that the TM3 was generally received as a very well driving car, even on track?

2/3/4 seconds. It almost becomes irrelevant in my opinion. However, the Taycan Turbo S has timed under 2.8s plenty of times, and can do it over and over again and is quite remarkable as a drivers car given the weight. Definitely (IMO again) built primarily with dynamics in mind rather than tech, which is clear from some of the software problems that seem quite prevalent.

As for the TM3, I have no idea, I can only speak for the models I've personally driven.

I didn't pop in for an argument by the way, I do realise how defensive people can become over Tesla and if we all liked the same things then the world would be a pretty boring place.

[ntiz]

ZesPak said:

I was under the impression that the TM3 was generally received as a very well driving car, even on track?

Edited by ZesPak on Friday 29th January 00:02

When I was doing 100 it was between charges on the autobahn it was short stint of something like 100 miles so I put my foot down got to the charger with not alot spare so worked out roughly how much I had left at that usage.

The 155 was just a matter of setting the read out to 5 miles instead of 30 and watching the read out go off the scale in spectacular fashion. I don’t expect the range to good at those speeds though I’m not totally unreasonable. I did the same trip in my Range Rover and was getting 250 miles a fill up. I find I don’t notice so much though because 5 mins to fill up and pay back on my way.

I don’t mean to have a total downer on the cars as I said the plus could very much turn my head again. Just pointing out there is a demographic that the improved range is very welcome to and they are the kind of people who just might blow 140k on a saloon.

I should when I talk about ranges I mean distance travelled between supercharges. As in 90% because I don’t want to wait the long period for the last 10% then allowing to arrive with 15-20% spare invase of diversions etc to get what I guess I consider the usable range.

Edited by ntiz on Friday 29th January 00:47

[ZesPak]

AB said:

As for the TM3, I have no idea, I can only speak for the models I've personally driven.

AB said:

Defensive much? Plenty of experience with EV's including Model S and 3 and I'm totally sold on EV's in general so don't worry about that.

AB said:

I didn't pop in for an argument by the way, I do realise how defensive people can become over Tesla and if we all liked the same things then the world would be a pretty boring place.

No, you popped in spouting just about every cliché in the book, before you started contradicting yourself.

And of course, 2s is the same as 4s. Speed doesn't matter.
Controversial opinion of me, 0-60 in sub 4s will never be boring.

[AB]

Cliche? Not from me, I’m expressing my opinion based on my experiences.

You have to wonder why so many people say the same things.

[ZesPak]

There are definitely some valid criticisms, but most of it is an echo chamber. The Model S was a bit of a boat on launch and the interior wasn't up to scratch.
The 2020 model S isn't the 2012 model S though, they are two very different cars. The Model 3 is also a very accomplished car. There are apparently a lot of people that like to echo whatever they've read one day and keep on voicing that often third hand knowledge.

Saying the cars are dynamically challenged, merely fast computers on wheels smells like that. Can you point me to a recent review where they get slated for their lack driving dynamics as you stated? I wouldn't even had responded to that if you didn't drag the Model 3 into that...

[AB]

Like I said, I read plenty of positive reviews and was all set on a Tesla before I saw and drove a couple.

I’m going on personal experience.

I really hope they get their act together and produce a stonking car because it’s pushing the rest to follow - even though I’m not entirely convinced the numbers on paper will be reflected when tested.

[ntiz]

On a different note. Do we think that steering erm square is going to make it to the UK?

I don’t want to be Luddite but I hope not. Although I would like a smaller sportier wheel than what is in my current car. All personal preference of course.

[Smiljan]

I doubt it will, there are renderings from the code in the Tesla site already out there showing a normal wheel.

Most likely it'll be optional in the US and only a few muppets will choose it.

Edited by Smiljan on Friday 29th January 09:56

[ZesPak]

AB said:

I really hope they get their act together and produce a stonking car because it’s pushing the rest to follow - even though I’m not entirely convinced the numbers on paper will be reflected when tested.

Their cars are far from perfect as you note, but in more than one way they are still often class-leading (range, performance, tech, storage, safety).
So "get their act together" is really relative.
Take the Polestar 2 for example. A good looking car and apparently a good drive, the Google infotainment apparently great. Better finish, better build quality, subjectively better looking.
Overall it's a great car vs the TM3. But in terms of range and performance/driving dynamics still lacking. So do they need to "get their act together" or just make a good product in different ways?

ntiz said:

On a different note. Do we think that steering erm square is going to make it to the UK?

I'm nearly 100% sure it won't. But it does cause a stir on Twitter, Facebook and the "car press"so job jobbed I'd say

Edited by ZesPak on Friday 29th January 10:00

[otolith]

Leon R said:

ZesPak said:

Leon R said:

Is it possible to limit the maximum performance of an EV to extract more range?

Yes, funnily enough the accelerator pedal isn't a binary switch .

Other than that, current Model S' have a "chill" driving mode which does limit performance and accelerator response.

Yeah not really what I was asking. Perhaps Max Torque will be along later.

If you size a petrol or diesel engine to make 1000bhp peak, it will be really inefficient when making 40bhp compared to a much smaller engine.

That creates the idea that it is necessarily the case that having more performance available in reserve reduces efficiency (and thus range).

Electric cars don't work that way. There is very little difference in efficiency between high and low power systems, and a bigger battery gives you both more range and the option of more power.

[Kawasicki]

otolith said:

Leon R said:

ZesPak said:

Leon R said:

Is it possible to limit the maximum performance of an EV to extract more range?

Yes, funnily enough the accelerator pedal isn't a binary switch .

Other than that, current Model S' have a "chill" driving mode which does limit performance and accelerator response.

Yeah not really what I was asking. Perhaps Max Torque will be along later.

If you size a petrol or diesel engine to make 1000bhp peak, it will be really inefficient when making 40bhp compared to a much smaller engine.

That creates the idea that it is necessarily the case that having more performance available in reserve reduces efficiency (and thus range).

Electric cars don't work that way. There is very little difference in efficiency between high and low power systems, and a bigger battery gives you both more range and the option of more power.

If an EV was limited to 100bhp peak, maybe you could get away with smaller tyres and increase range through lower rolling and aero resistance.

[otolith]

Kawasicki said:

otolith said:

Leon R said:

ZesPak said:

Leon R said:

Is it possible to limit the maximum performance of an EV to extract more range?

Yes, funnily enough the accelerator pedal isn't a binary switch .

Other than that, current Model S' have a "chill" driving mode which does limit performance and accelerator response.

Yeah not really what I was asking. Perhaps Max Torque will be along later.

If you size a petrol or diesel engine to make 1000bhp peak, it will be really inefficient when making 40bhp compared to a much smaller engine.

That creates the idea that it is necessarily the case that having more performance available in reserve reduces efficiency (and thus range).

Electric cars don't work that way. There is very little difference in efficiency between high and low power systems, and a bigger battery gives you both more range and the option of more power.

If an EV was limited to 100bhp peak, maybe you could get away with smaller tyres and increase range through lower rolling and aero resistance.

You could do that anyway, it would just be (electronically) traction limited.

[ZesPak]

The proof is partly in that the only ones managing to match Tesla in economy are Hyundai. And this is in cars they go nearly all out in terms of economy.
As said, the big battery gives the possibility of extracting a lot of power, and electric motors are damn efficient.

[dvs_dave]

Kawasicki said:

If an EV was limited to 100bhp peak, maybe you could get away with smaller tyres and increase range through lower rolling and aero resistance.

There’s already that approach. Take the VW ID3 for example. Modest performance, small motor, modest brakes (it has drums on the back), narrow tires, great aero, relatively low cost, etc. It’s of course extremely efficient, but not appreciably more so than a Long Range Tesla with 600+ hp.

[ZesPak]

dvs_dave said:

It’s of course extremely efficient, but not appreciably more so than a Long Range Tesla with 600+ hp.

And still short of the SR Tesla Model 3 with about 300+hp ...

[nicfaz]

ZesPak said:

There are definitely some valid criticisms, but most of it is an echo chamber. The Model S was a bit of a boat on launch and the interior wasn't up to scratch.
The 2020 model S isn't the 2012 model S though, they are two very different cars. The Model 3 is also a very accomplished car. There are apparently a lot of people that like to echo whatever they've read one day and keep on voicing that often third hand knowledge.

Saying the cars are dynamically challenged, merely fast computers on wheels smells like that. Can you point me to a recent review where they get slated for their lack driving dynamics as you stated? I wouldn't even had responded to that if you didn't drag the Model 3 into that...

I'll chip in to back you up here - lots of people pile in to say how terrible Tesla's handle and no "enthusiast" would ever buy one, but then it emerges that their experience is limited to a brief trip in a Model S (if that). That's like saying all VW group cars are crap because they've driven a diesel Passat and didn't like it... The Model 3 is very different.

Whilst not wishing to be accused of fanboyism, there's no news story on this as I write. Go back 5 years and imagine what would happen if BMW or Mercedes had released a saloon car that did 0-60 in less than 2 seconds, 200mph and (estimating) the equivalent of 150mpg for £111k. It would have been the top story for days. Whilst it's right to acknowledge the things Tesla gets wrong, to have no coverage at all does fuel the flames of Tesla enthusiasts who think sites like this are hopelessly biased.