Tesla unlikely to Survive (Vol. 3)

[RobDickinson]

Why don't you buy a Mercedes then?

[gregs656]

RobDickinson said:

Why don't you buy a Mercedes then?

It tickles me you have gone from 'The Germans are coming lolllllllll' to this

[Heres Johnny]

gregs656 said:

RobDickinson said:

Why don't you buy a Mercedes then?

It tickles me you have gone from 'The Germans are coming lolllllllll' to this

Rob can’t construct a fact based argument to save his life, he just resorts to childish posts. If he actually thought Tesla had a credible level 3 offering one would imagine posting the proof points to that would be a better argument, so draw your own conclusions when he doesn’t.

Tesla are all in on FSD, no intermediate levels, they’re expecting to go from level 2 to level 5. You can form your own opinion if that’s a smart approach. Mercedes will help flush out/influence/be at the table on a bunch of issues, who picks up the speeding ticket when the car misses a variable speed limit, how do the police know the car is driving when the driver is on their mobile phone, how does the car produce a police statement if involved in an accident even when not their fault? These and many more need to be addressed once the driver can stop paying attention.

[soupdragon1]

I don't think there is room for debate anymore after this incident

Tesla FSD is dangerous and not fit for purpose

This scenario couldn't be any easier for autonomy. Clearly marked lanes, hardly any traffic and all of a sudden, it decides to drive into the opposite lane, into the path of an oncoming vehicle

The driver grabs the wheel in the nick of time, manages to avoid the head on collision but unfortunately, is unable to keep the car on the road and it careers off the road towards a farmhouse. Lucky to miss the trees as well


https://twitter.com/mostlyharmlessz/status/1469421...

[JonChalk]

soupdragon1 said:

I don't think there is room for debate anymore after this incident

Tesla FSD is dangerous and not fit for purpose

This scenario couldn't be any easier for autonomy. Clearly marked lanes, hardly any traffic and all of a sudden, it decides to drive into the opposite lane, into the path of an oncoming vehicle

The driver grabs the wheel in the nick of time, manages to avoid the head on collision but unfortunately, is unable to keep the car on the road and it careers off the road towards a farmhouse. Lucky to miss the trees as well


https://twitter.com/mostlyharmlessz/status/1469421...

The contempt shown for the OP on https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/fsd-beta-a... is clear and unadulterated from the tesla fan community;

• it was the OP's fault for not being able to drive and not understanding how FSD works and can be turned over-ridden.

However, this misses the point completely - you should not need to be a driving god, or understand and work around FSDs foibles - if this is to be considered "safe" and useful for everyday transport then absolutely anyone should be able to use it at any time.

Tesla will sell the system to anyone and almost anyone qualifies under their revised safety score system for the beta.

[soupdragon1]

JonChalk said:

The contempt shown for the OP on https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/fsd-beta-a... is clear and unadulterated from the tesla fan community;

• it was the OP's fault for not being able to drive and not understanding how FSD works and can be turned over-ridden.

However, this misses the point completely - you should not need to be a driving god, or understand and work around FSDs foibles - if this is to be considered "safe" and useful for everyday transport then absolutely anyone should be able to use it at any time.

Tesla will sell the system to anyone and almost anyone qualifies under their revised safety score system for the beta.

Just read through that

Incredible comments, blaming the driver etc

People saying its OPs fault for driving at night for example. Complete failure to recognise that if FSD can't manage the simplest of scenarios such as this, then it's not safe to be given to the public at this point in time

I think someone will need to die before authorities step in. I dunno, Elon must have some juicy dirt on people in high places to continue making USA look like its become a lawless country. Its like the Wild West across USA these days, in more ways than one

[hyphen]

Havent read it all, but technically it is the OPs fault. If people want to act as unpaid guinea pigs in an experiment, they can't complain later

Get FSD and for the lolz play around ocassionaly and impress your friends and family. But use it for normal driving? Gotta be stupid.

And once again, unpaid free labour is what these owners are providing to a large corporate company where the directors regularly cash out share options of billions of dollars.

Edited by hyphen on Saturday 11th December 12:07

[Smiljan]

Don't forget they paid thousands of dollars for the option to be chosen for this test program. The whole thing is ridiculous.

[hyphen]

Many car makers are up in arms.

Bidens EV subsidies maximum amounts are only available to cars made a) in the USA and b) by a unionised workforce, so the others are grumbling about lack of level playing field etc.

Audi imports cars in, vw/bmw/Daimler/Toyota make cars in the US but no unions. Ford makes some cars in Mexico.

Toyota is taking out ads to publicise it https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyotas-statement-on-...

Edited by hyphen on Saturday 11th December 19:33

[JonChalk]

hyphen said:

Many car makers are up in arms.

Bidens EV subsidies maximum amounts are only available to cars made a) in the USA and b) by a unionised workforce, so the others are grumbling about lack of level playing field etc.

Audi imports cars in, vw/bmw/Daimler/Toyota make cars in the US but no unions. Ford makes some cars in Mexico.

Toyota is taking out ads to publicise it https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyotas-statement-on-...

Edited by hyphen on Saturday 11th December 19:33

I genuinely thought America would become more sensible under Biden, but he's disappointingly equally beholden to his paymasters, just his are American rather than Russian/Saudi.

How can they possibly promote this as anything other bribery of US unions - has nothing to do with wanting to help with climate change.

It's also frustrating that I find myself agreeing with Toyota, whose actions with regards to trying to reign in the switch to BEVs is equally despicable.

[RobDickinson]

The Biden BBB plan is purely to funnel money to Gm and Ford as part of a jobs program for UAW. Nothing more.

[Burwood]

RobDickinson said:

The Biden BBB plan is purely to funnel money to Gm and Ford as part of a jobs program for UAW. Nothing more.

Why are you surprised. They’re in a war within China, ergo any foreign ‘stuff’ is not getting a look in. Foreign is just a metaphor for China. Coupled with the Nationalism America promote. I don’t follow much in the way of US politics. Biden, like almost all, is just a mouth piece. Who elects an 80 year old. He hasn’t got the energy.

[RobDickinson]

I'm not surprises. The UAW own Biden.

All this will do is make the US car manufacturers concentrate on small battery PHEVs before they get smashed by Chinese import BEvs.

[Smiljan]

I'm still not getting why Tesla people are so bothered, I'm reading constantly Tesla don't need these prop ups to help shift their cars and that amazing manufacturing and supply chain systems in Tesla mean the cars get cheaper and cheaper (again meaning tax payer funded discounts not required).

Either they are amazing and can stand alone without this tax help or they can't, which is it?

From what I've seen this year, the Chinese make better Tesla's than the Americans and all models of Tesla have gone up in price not down.

Something just doesn't add up.

[RobDickinson]

Smiljan said:

I'm still not getting why Tesla people are so bothered.

You dont?

Biden, the president of USA, ignores the worlds absolute leader in EVs and calls GM's Mary Barry the person who 'done it' and created the EV revolution.

A company that doesnt at the moment sell a single EV.

A company that until November 2020 was campaigning for worse emissions laws.

A company that literally crushed their first production EV.


Not only that they have excluded tesla from all these talks, Tesla dont need the subsidies but GM and Ford could do with Teslas help.

But this isnt about making more and better EVs its about cash for UAW jobs. Thats the point.

[Burwood]

RobDickinson said:

I'm not surprises. The UAW own Biden.

All this will do is make the US car manufacturers concentrate on small battery PHEVs before they get smashed by Chinese import BEvs.

Maybe, or Biden with add huge tariffs. Sadly politics always screws with business because politics is all about power and that’s money.

As an aside, China is a problem to us all. Hey, they push you guys around. They’ll have a military base in the islands soon. Maybe even Fiji.

[Smiljan]

RobDickinson said:

Smiljan said:

I'm still not getting why Tesla people are so bothered.

You dont?

Biden, the president of USA, ignores the worlds absolute leader in EVs and calls GM's Mary Barry the person who 'done it' and created the EV revolution.

A company that doesnt at the moment sell a single EV.

A company that until November 2020 was campaigning for worse emissions laws.

A company that literally crushed their first production EV.


Not only that they have excluded tesla from all these talks, Tesla dont need the subsidies but GM and Ford could do with Teslas help.

But this isnt about making more and better EVs its about cash for UAW jobs. Thats the point.

Still don't understand why Tesla people are bothered, the company is doing fine, lots of new products in the pipeline and billions in cash in reserve. On top of that the US Gov is helping with the Tesla mission by assisting other manufacturers with the transition to sustainable transport with incentives to buyers that Tesla has benefited from for many years already.

It's a win for everyone.

If Tesla want the same benefits in full all they have to do is unionise their plants. Why would that be such a big issue?

Edited by Smiljan on Sunday 12th December 22:01

[RobDickinson]

They dont need a military base.

Most of the worlds goods are made in China, that gives them substantial negotiating strength

[Burwood]

RobDickinson said:

They dont need a military base.

Most of the worlds goods are made in China, that gives them substantial negotiating strength

By a thin margin. Therein lies the problem

[hyphen]

RobDickinson said:

They dont need a military base.

Most of the worlds goods are made in China, that gives them substantial negotiating strength

Yes and no.

The Chinese economy is built on everyone buying their output, if the wealthy nations put sanctions on China, their economy collapses, and the fattened up middle classes get unhappy enough to topple the communist party.

The west is also starting to address key dependencies - EU is partnering with Koreans and other to build plants in Europe for batteries and the like, Samsung is building semi-conductor plants in USA etc and so on.